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nyqvististhefuture

wings arent winning the cup

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The optimism is refreshing, but I have to disagree. I don't think anything we can realistically add will make us all that much better. Anything can happen and the better we are the better the chances it will. But I think no matter who we add, we're still a puck-possession team that isn't particularly good at puck possession; still vulnerable to an agressive forecheck (and there are several teams in the west who do "agressive forecheck" very effectively); still have problems with our special teams...

We'd still have to get hot and play at our best to have any chance of making it through four tough playoff rounds. As we are now (with Flip and Helm healthy) I think we have pretty much that same chance.

I'd agree that we may get even worse in the next few years, and that's exactly why I'd be against making any minor improvements now. Better to be "further away but on the rise" than "further away and still another 3 years away from starting to climb again".

Someone in the Filppula thread brought up "opportunity cost", and I think it applies here as well. Say we were to add Volchenkov and Ryder. Maybe that buys a second round loss instead of a first. Doesn't add anything to the future, nor is a second round loss anything to be happy about. Basically, in addition to whatever we give up to get them we trade down a handful of spots in the draft for a few extra games. That's like giving up an extra 2nd-round pick.

I don't think we should tank the season and start selling off everyone for picks. And maybe there's only a semantic difference between "tanking" and "intentionally not making improvements". But I think we need to focus on building our next generation now, and just be content with whatever success we have in the meantime. I don't think that's "throwing away the season", and I don't see how you can really believe that just a couple, rather minor, moves would take us from "throw away" to "as competetive as any team in the league".

Well in other threads I've been clearer than I perhaps was here. I'd make the moves because I think you could get better than a Michael Ryder as long as you were willing to part with Nyquist or Tatar, and while those guys are good players, I don't think they're integral to the future of the team. Not nearly so much as Jurco, Sproul, Jarnkrok, Frk, Oullet, and Mrazek are. Also, all of my post was predicated on getting healthy as well. Basically in my ideal scenario we'd be "adding" something like Volchenkov (or Regehr, Smid, Murray), a top six winger (I like Blake Wheeler and Nino Niederrieter), as well as Helm, Sammy, and maybe Bert. All of those additions would make us as competitive as any team in the league in my opinion.

Still a very thought out post from you though, which is kinda nice.

Edited by kipwinger

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You forgot other teams also have less injuries. And I completely disagree that our boys don't have the desire to win. IMO, the reason we have been winning is because the teams work ethic and desire.

The parity in the NHL is ridiculous. I kind of look at it like this: There are 3 tiers of teams. The top tier is small, including Chicago, Anaheim, Vancouver, Boston, Pittsburgh maybe. THen you have tier 2 which includes most other teams in the playoff chase, including the Red Wings. The final tier has the teams like Edmonton, Columbus, NYI, etc.

The point is, do you think the Wings could beat Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series? IMO, yes, because the teams in tier 1 aren't all that different from the teams in tier 2. Anaheim wasn't even that good last year and this year they are tearing it up. When you look at the big picture, teams really aren't that far apart when it comes to talent, especially in the top 2 tiers. Carolina will probably be a top seed in the East this year. Do you think the Wings could beat them in a 7 game series? I watch them play sometimes and they aren't all that impressive. LA was a tier 2 team last year and managed to win the cup. I am not convinced that this team can't win the cup when healthy. I think they have the ability to do it, and I think one more piece would push us closer to the top of tier 2. I also realize that every other team in Tier 1 and Tier 2 have the same chance and ability to win it as well.

I just think people are panicking because we aren't the same dominant team we have been in the past. But the league has been changing dramatically, even since 2009 and 2010. Teams are a lot close together in terms of talent and depth. You have to get hot at the right time, get good luck with injuries, and anything can happen.

Oh, you just take that reason and even-keeled thought processes... um, well... no, nevermind. Don't go anywhere, you just keep going with that.

awesome punctuation bro

...and you... you probably expect capital letters when appropriate too, huh? Oh, right. It would be nice.

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Any team in the playoffs has a chance to win the cup. I'm not saying I don't have concerns but unless we don't make the top 8, I'm not going to start having a panic show.

I think it's a little bit sad that everyone here is already defeated...if the fans can't be bothered to have a little faith then I don't really think the team owes it to us to play any better than they are.

Chin up people, it's not like we're the Blue Jackets.

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I don't think everyone is defeated. The title of this thread is a little misleading. Even FutureNyquist isn't the pessimist he might want us to think he is...

I just wish that people wouldn't be *so* wrapped up in our need to winwinwinwinwincupcupcupcupnownownow...

when we have such a storied and incredible franchise to watch year in and year out.

kip... I gotta PM you about Nino.

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Well in other threads I've been clearer than I perhaps was here. I'd make the moves because I think you could get better than a Michael Ryder as long as you were willing to part with Nyquist or Tatar, and while those guys are good players, I don't think they're integral to the future of the team. Not nearly so much as Jurco, Sproul, Jarnkrok, Frk, Oullet, and Mrazek are. Also, all of my post was predicated on getting healthy as well. Basically in my ideal scenario we'd be "adding" something like Volchenkov (or Regehr, Smid, Murray), a top six winger (I like Blake Wheeler and Nino Niederrieter), as well as Helm, Sammy, and maybe Bert. All of those additions would make us as competitive as any team in the league in my opinion.

Still a very thought out post from you though, which is kinda nice.

giving up nyquist or tatar and a high pick for someone as mediocre as ryder or any ufa would be a HUGE mistake

and samuelsson f*cken sucks and bert is getting old and always hurt there not gonna bring this team to the next level we'd be better off getting rid of one or both of them and letting the younger hungrier kids play fulltime

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Meh. The Kings had the kind of roster primed for a deep playoff run. Big, physical team that outworks everyone and rides a hot goalie. I guess someone should have noted that last year before starting that thread.

Hence, I wouldn't say anyone can win the Cup because the Kings did. It still takes a certain type of team. Either the one I described above or a team that just has more talent than everyone else (Hawks this year).

Wings are a team that is looking for its new identity, since we don't have the puck possession game we once did, with Lidstrom and Rafalski gone.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
to remove deleted post that was quoted
nyqvististhefuture and Shaman like this

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Have you been watching them lately?

They look like a playoff bound team to me.. And after that, any team that makes the playoffs can win the cup.

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Have you been watching them lately?

They look like a playoff bound team to me.. And after that, any team that makes the playoffs can win the cup.

Right, I don't know what everyone else is watching, but this team is good! They work hard, they're tough, fast, block a lot of shots, and Howard is probably playing the best he ever has. Just wait until Helm comes back!

I know if I was on one of the other teams in the West, I wouldn't want to play the Wings in the playoffs.

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Any further posts commenting on the worthiness of the thread will be deleted and warnings/suspensions/permabans will be handed out.

It's pretty simple. If you don't like the thread, don't post in it.

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yes the wings have been playing real good as of late and maybe they can win a 1st round depending the match up but in my personal opinion i just dont think after losing lidstrom and stuart and not adding a top defensemen they can win a cup

i never liked white and coliacovo, dont think there any good tbh ... kindl lashoff and smith would be in the playoffs fulltime for the fist time all at once(As well as tatar.andersson,nyquist if they play) thats one reason i dont see the wings going all the way

and i also think were not as physical or as big as other teams i cant see us going through teams like l.a,chicago,vancouver,saint louis

bertuzzi and samuelsson are aging and injury prone ... the only player coming back making a big difference on this team is darren helm (yes filppula is out but he was with the team most of the year)

thats why i think we wont win , yes anybody can win but like someone above said l.a was a smoke and mirrors team they never should of been an 8th team to begin with there full of young stars who are fast big and can hit

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Any further posts commenting on the worthiness of the thread will be deleted and warnings/suspensions/permabans will be handed out.

It's pretty simple. If you don't like the thread, don't post in it.

But the Wings are winning the Cup. :cup: This is crazy talk yo!

In all seriousness, lately with our D getting chemistry with 6 guys gelling and White where he belongs in the press box, if our offence starts getting bounces and more goals come, our boys could go deep this year. And going in, i sorta wanted them to miss the playoffs to get a good pick. I just want Ryan Pulock. Wherever we finish, get the pick around 15 or 16 and get that kid.

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...But I want to post in the thread even though I don't like it :P

The fanboy in me says the Wings can win it every year.

The realist in me thinks the OP is right, even though we still haven't seen the full potential of this team due to injuries and won't because of the shortened season.

LA proved last season that anything can happen though, in hockey you honestly never know.

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I'm not saying we'll win or lose, but this year going into the playoffs we won't have any pressure (Chicago's going to have all the pressure), and we have guys on the team who have been there and done that. All teams have to do is get a couple breaks, get hot at the right time, and believe in themselves.

Again, if I'm on another team in the west, or just a fan, I don't want to play the Wings in the playoffs. Playing this year's Wings in a best of 7 would take a lot out of you.

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Maybe if those pieces were Yzerman and Lidstrom

Har har. Now if you'll turn your attention to the standings you notice that the wings are currently tied for third place in the Western Conference and have beaten every other ranked team below us (aside from Phoenix whom we haven't played yet). We've also taken Chicago to overtime twice in two of the tougher games they've played all season.

How is it that I'm having a hard time convincing people that we actually have a competitive team?

giving up nyquist or tatar and a high pick for someone as mediocre as ryder or any ufa would be a HUGE mistake

and samuelsson f*cken sucks and bert is getting old and always hurt there not gonna bring this team to the next level we'd be better off getting rid of one or both of them and letting the younger hungrier kids play fulltime

Read it again, I said Nyquist or Tatar and a pick would get someone better than Ryder, but I think a guy like Ryder would help...if he could be had more cheaply. I was just using him as an example of a winger (not converted center) who can finish plays when his centers set him up.

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Well in other threads I've been clearer than I perhaps was here. I'd make the moves because I think you could get better than a Michael Ryder as long as you were willing to part with Nyquist or Tatar, and while those guys are good players, I don't think they're integral to the future of the team. Not nearly so much as Jurco, Sproul, Jarnkrok, Frk, Oullet, and Mrazek are. Also, all of my post was predicated on getting healthy as well. Basically in my ideal scenario we'd be "adding" something like Volchenkov (or Regehr, Smid, Murray), a top six winger (I like Blake Wheeler and Nino Niederrieter), as well as Helm, Sammy, and maybe Bert. All of those additions would make us as competitive as any team in the league in my opinion.

Still a very thought out post from you though, which is kinda nice.

Adding a younger player who would become part of the future would be fine. I think Wheeler would be pretty costly though. As bad as the SE is, Winnipeg isn't likely to be out of it so he probably wouldn't be available at all. He's also a RFA who could be looking for a decent raise. Stafford could be an alternative.

Niederreiter could be an interesting pickup. He's been a disappointment so far, and something has to wrong if even the Isles don't invite you to training camp. Could be a cheap addition, though I wouldn't expect him to improve the Wings this year. Not sure I'd give up Nyquist or Tatar for him though. Both seem to be better players at this point. Maybe if we could throw in one of our spare parts for a pick. Paajarvi would be another kid that might be worth looking in to.

In short, I'm not totally against trying to improve so long as it's someone who could help with a rebuild as well as help today. I doubt there will be many names on that list.

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Adding a younger player who would become part of the future would be fine. I think Wheeler would be pretty costly though. As bad as the SE is, Winnipeg isn't likely to be out of it so he probably wouldn't be available at all. He's also a RFA who could be looking for a decent raise. Stafford could be an alternative.

Niederreiter could be an interesting pickup. He's been a disappointment so far, and something has to wrong if even the Isles don't invite you to training camp. Could be a cheap addition, though I wouldn't expect him to improve the Wings this year. Not sure I'd give up Nyquist or Tatar for him though. Both seem to be better players at this point. Maybe if we could throw in one of our spare parts for a pick. Paajarvi would be another kid that might be worth looking in to.

In short, I'm not totally against trying to improve so long as it's someone who could help with a rebuild as well as help today. I doubt there will be many names on that list.

I like Paajarvi and Stafford. I think you're picking up what I'm laying down. I don't just want to throw away good prospects for older guys, that's not what I have in mind But I think there are options that put us in a good position going forward this season, as well as the next couple, and while we'd lose a good prospect or two, the loss wouldn't be devastating down the line.

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The storyline for the team this year is great. Players like Flippula and Howard could put on those remarkable playoff runs playing for a new contract. This team can still stay afloat and compete with people being injured. Kronwall replacing the great lidstrom for a Norris winning season? I predict seeing the best hockey Flippula and Howard have ever played come playoff time

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The storyline for the team this year is great. Players like Flippula and Howard could put on those remarkable playoff runs playing for a new contract. This team can still stay afloat and compete with people being injured. Kronwall replacing the great lidstrom for a Norris winning season? I predict seeing the best hockey Flippula and Howard have ever played come playoff time

not if Holland fulfills your every wish and trades flip before the deadline

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Meh. The Kings had the kind of roster primed for a deep playoff run. Big, physical team that outworks everyone and rides a hot goalie. I guess someone should have noted that last year before starting that thread.

Hence, I wouldn't say anyone can win the Cup because the Kings did. It still takes a certain type of team. Either the one I described above or a team that just has more talent than everyone else (Hawks this year).

Wings are a team that is looking for its new identity, since we don't have the puck possession game we once did, with Lidstrom and Rafalski gone.

Agreed. The Kings are a bad example for "anything can happen."

A lot of people were picking the Kings to go deep in the playoffs before the season even started. They were a very good team that underachieved for half the season and couldn't score to save their lives. Then they fired their coach, made a few changes, and started playing up to their potential at the right time.

They weren't some mediocre team in terms of talent that came out of nowhere.

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What a riduculous statement. Let's looks at the last 10 years: AVS, NJ, TB, none due to lockout, Hurricanes, Ducks, Wings, Pens, Hawks, Bruins and Kings have won it all.

Perhaps 3 of those teams would have been a favorite to win the cup at the start of the season ( Wings, Pens, Bruins) Fans of the Kings, the Ducks, the Canes, TB and NJ ( up against a mind blowing Guigure) would have been laughed at for predicting a cup win.

We had huge names and a lot of talent that we have lost since winning the Cup in 08. No Lids, Raffy, Ozzie, Stewie Ect but yet we have some pretty cool pieces on this team. Howard has been rock solid, Lashoff have been soooooo good as a young catch. Tatar is ready. Brunner is a rockstar. Big E is getting better, Smith has showed he belongs and all " the junk" like TooToo that people cranked about has given this team a new dimension.

No flip, Helm, Bert, Sammy, Cola and huge amount of games lost in other guys and yet we are 3rd in the Conference? Whoa

We aren't the same team we are in 08 and we don't have as much talent.... but as we saw last year with the Pens, Philly, Boston, Vancouverand Chicago...the most talented team doesn't always win. Do I think we will win the Cup....I am not placing a wager at the Belagio....but I am impressed with the heart of this team. Never, ever give up.

Edited by Motown4013

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Thing is, the playoffs are a different ball game. We all know this. And we all know it's a ball game that has not been kind to the Wings in recent seasons. And we all know (whether we want to admit it or not) that that's mostly on our scoring, or lack thereof, not "puck luck." And so here we, having scoring problems again - but, wowzers! We're third in the Western Conference! And don't worry about our special teams! They'll just, well, they'll just start clicking! And then we'll be unstoppable!

:dozing:

Not trying to be a prick. I'm hoping for the best...and preparing for the worst.

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