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wings arent winning the cup


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#21 blgillett

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:40 PM

Your talking Cup I'm worried we won't make the playoffs
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#22 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

Your talking Cup I'm worried we won't make the playoffs

 

playoffs?????  dont talk about playoffssss lol



#23 Jericho613

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

if they do ill gladly say i was an idiot and i was wrong but i think if most of us are realistic you'd realize we dont have great chances with lidstrom gone and stuart as well as losing rafalski 2 yrs ago and never getting a top d man back to win t all this season

 

 

the whole point to this is to calm down about trade deadline and not expect the wings to sell out the future for someone like bouwmeester, iginla or whomever. In fact id like to see us getting rid of guys like ian white and if possible samuelsson and coliacovo(although both been hurt all year so i doubt it could happen)If it was possible to do like a ian white for ryan whitney type deal id be down for something like that

 

we still got a good enough team to make the playoffs and if we can get rid of white and a few others and get extra draft picks instead of losing them for nothing then we should, but we shouldnt throw in someone like  tatar,nyquist or our 1st rd pick in any deal this year

 

I hope to god we make the playoffs cause it wouldnt be the same but on the flip side i can see no better year not to get in if we had to choose the year since this is a shortened season and wouldnt hurt as much AND the draft is deep as hell and if we could get in the top 5 some how it could be worth it (landing seth jones would give us a #1 d for 10-20 yrs)

 


I agree, realistically we are not in a position to challenge for the cup, but making the playoffs to me is pretty meaningful to keep our playoff streak alive (which is a helluva  lot better than the Blackhawks streak). We just gotta keep pushing forward with younger guys and within a few years we can be an elite team again. Right now we just have to take a few steps back and find our new Identity and future great players. I think its with more of our young players in GR personally. But hey we might get lucky and sign a Perry or Getzlaf and challenge for a cup run sooner. I just don't see that happening. But hey if an 8th seed can win a cup like last year, than the Red Wings just have to get in, and try to play lights out hockey and you never know. I'm gonna support the Wings till the day I die, but fans also need to be realistic, we are taking a few steps back and the only way to build another cup winning team is to develop the young talent. Its not always gonna be there in free agency like in days past when we could get the top players.



#24 Buppy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:17 PM

I disagree with a lot of what both of you are saying.  I legitimately think we are a piece or two from being as competitive as any team in the league.  A big minute stay at home defenseman, and a top six winger like a Michael Ryder type (not him specifically) would improve this team a lot.  Then with Helm back we'd have a pretty solid team. 

 

I don't like the idea of stock piling picks because that essentially throws this season away as well as the next couple (until picks and prospects mature).  By that time Datsyuk and Filppula may be long gone, Zetterberg will be on the decline, as will Franzen and Kronwall.  In two or three years we might find we're further away from winning a cup then we are right now. 

The optimism is refreshing, but I have to disagree. I don't think anything we can realistically add will make us all that much better. Anything can happen and the better we are the better the chances it will. But I think no matter who we add, we're still a puck-possession team that isn't particularly good at puck possession; still vulnerable to an agressive forecheck (and there are several teams in the west who do "agressive forecheck" very effectively); still have problems with our special teams...

 

We'd still have to get hot and play at our best to have any chance of making it through four tough playoff rounds. As we are now (with Flip and Helm healthy) I think we have pretty much that same chance.

 

I'd agree that we may get even worse in the next few years, and that's exactly why I'd be against making any minor improvements now. Better to be "further away but on the rise" than "further away and still another 3 years away from starting to climb again".

 

Someone in the Filppula thread brought up "opportunity cost", and I think it applies here as well. Say we were to add Volchenkov and Ryder. Maybe that buys a second round loss instead of a first. Doesn't add anything to the future, nor is a second round loss anything to be happy about. Basically, in addition to whatever we give up to get them we trade down a handful of spots in the draft for a few extra games. That's like giving up an extra 2nd-round pick.

 

I don't think we should tank the season and start selling off everyone for picks. And maybe there's only a semantic difference between "tanking" and "intentionally not making improvements". But I think we need to focus on building our next generation now, and just be content with whatever success we have in the meantime. I don't think that's "throwing away the season", and I don't see how you can really believe that just a couple, rather minor, moves would take us from "throw away" to "as competetive as any team in the league".



#25 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:25 PM

Next years forwards.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Perry
Brunner-Zetts-Bertuzzi
Nyquist-Helm-Tatar
Abs-Andersson-Tootoo

Our defense is going nowhere but up from here on and I think they can get it done. Over ripening our prospects could potentially have got us one of the best 3rd lines in the league for dirt cheap


Maybe a Dekeyser signing in the offseason and then in a couple years add Sproul and Ouellet to the mix. I'm in.

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#26 kipwinger

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

The optimism is refreshing, but I have to disagree. I don't think anything we can realistically add will make us all that much better. Anything can happen and the better we are the better the chances it will. But I think no matter who we add, we're still a puck-possession team that isn't particularly good at puck possession; still vulnerable to an agressive forecheck (and there are several teams in the west who do "agressive forecheck" very effectively); still have problems with our special teams...

 

We'd still have to get hot and play at our best to have any chance of making it through four tough playoff rounds. As we are now (with Flip and Helm healthy) I think we have pretty much that same chance.

 

I'd agree that we may get even worse in the next few years, and that's exactly why I'd be against making any minor improvements now. Better to be "further away but on the rise" than "further away and still another 3 years away from starting to climb again".

 

Someone in the Filppula thread brought up "opportunity cost", and I think it applies here as well. Say we were to add Volchenkov and Ryder. Maybe that buys a second round loss instead of a first. Doesn't add anything to the future, nor is a second round loss anything to be happy about. Basically, in addition to whatever we give up to get them we trade down a handful of spots in the draft for a few extra games. That's like giving up an extra 2nd-round pick.

 

I don't think we should tank the season and start selling off everyone for picks. And maybe there's only a semantic difference between "tanking" and "intentionally not making improvements". But I think we need to focus on building our next generation now, and just be content with whatever success we have in the meantime. I don't think that's "throwing away the season", and I don't see how you can really believe that just a couple, rather minor, moves would take us from "throw away" to "as competetive as any team in the league".

 

Well in other threads I've been clearer than I perhaps was here.  I'd make the moves because I think you could get better than a Michael Ryder as long as you were willing to part with Nyquist or Tatar, and while those guys are good players, I don't think they're integral to the future of the team.  Not nearly so much as Jurco, Sproul, Jarnkrok, Frk, Oullet, and Mrazek are.  Also, all of my post was predicated on getting healthy as well.  Basically in my ideal scenario we'd be "adding" something like Volchenkov (or Regehr, Smid, Murray), a top six winger (I like Blake Wheeler and Nino Niederrieter), as well as Helm, Sammy, and maybe Bert.  All of those additions would make us as competitive as any team in the league in my opinion. 

 

Still a very thought out post from you though, which is kinda nice. 


Edited by kipwinger, 07 March 2013 - 07:42 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#27 e_prime

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:02 PM

You forgot other teams also have less injuries.  And I completely disagree that our boys don't have the desire to win.  IMO, the reason we have been winning is because the teams work ethic and desire.

 

The parity in the NHL is ridiculous.  I kind of look at it like this: There are 3 tiers of teams.  The top tier is small, including Chicago, Anaheim, Vancouver, Boston, Pittsburgh maybe.  THen you have tier 2 which includes most other teams in the playoff chase, including the Red Wings.  The final tier has the teams like Edmonton, Columbus, NYI, etc.

 

The point is, do you think the Wings could beat Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series?  IMO, yes, because the teams in tier 1 aren't all that different from the teams in tier 2.  Anaheim wasn't even that good last year and this year they are tearing it up.  When you look at the big picture, teams really aren't that far apart when it comes to talent, especially in the top 2 tiers.  Carolina will probably be a top seed in the East this year.  Do you think the Wings could beat them in a 7 game series?  I watch them play sometimes and they aren't all that impressive.  LA was a tier 2 team last year and managed to win the cup.  I am not convinced that this team can't win the cup when healthy.  I think they have the ability to do it, and I think one more piece would push us closer to the top of tier 2.  I also realize that every other team in Tier 1 and Tier 2 have the same chance and ability to win it as well.  

 

I just think people are panicking because we aren't the same dominant team we have been in the past.  But the league has been changing dramatically, even since 2009 and 2010.  Teams are a lot close together in terms of talent and depth. You have to get hot at the right time, get good luck with injuries, and anything can happen. 

Oh, you just take that reason and even-keeled thought processes... um, well...  no, nevermind. Don't go anywhere, you just keep going with that.

 

awesome punctuation bro

...and you... you probably expect capital letters when appropriate too, huh?  Oh, right. It would be nice.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#28 Ally

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:10 PM

Any team in the playoffs has a chance to win the cup. I'm not saying I don't have concerns but unless we don't make the top 8, I'm not going to start having a panic show.
I think it's a little bit sad that everyone here is already defeated...if the fans can't be bothered to have a little faith then I don't really think the team owes it to us to play any better than they are.
Chin up people, it's not like we're the Blue Jackets.

 
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#29 e_prime

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:17 PM

I don't think everyone is defeated. The title of this thread is a little misleading.  Even FutureNyquist isn't the pessimist he might want us to think he is...

 

I just wish that people wouldn't be *so* wrapped up in our need to winwinwinwinwincupcupcupcupnownownow...

when we have such a storied and incredible franchise to watch year in and year out.

 

kip... I gotta PM you about Nino.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#30 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

Well in other threads I've been clearer than I perhaps was here.  I'd make the moves because I think you could get better than a Michael Ryder as long as you were willing to part with Nyquist or Tatar, and while those guys are good players, I don't think they're integral to the future of the team.  Not nearly so much as Jurco, Sproul, Jarnkrok, Frk, Oullet, and Mrazek are.  Also, all of my post was predicated on getting healthy as well.  Basically in my ideal scenario we'd be "adding" something like Volchenkov (or Regehr, Smid, Murray), a top six winger (I like Blake Wheeler and Nino Niederrieter), as well as Helm, Sammy, and maybe Bert.  All of those additions would make us as competitive as any team in the league in my opinion. 

 

Still a very thought out post from you though, which is kinda nice. 

 

 

giving up nyquist or tatar and a high pick for someone as mediocre as ryder or any ufa would be a HUGE mistake

 

and samuelsson f*cken sucks and bert is getting old and always hurt there not gonna bring this team to the next level we'd be better off getting rid of one or both of them and letting the younger hungrier  kids play fulltime



#31 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

Hey, if all we do is make the playoffs I'll be a happy camper.  Keep the streak alive!



#32 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:25 PM

Meh.  The Kings had the kind of roster primed for a deep playoff run.  Big, physical team that outworks everyone and rides a hot goalie.  I guess someone should have noted that last year before starting that thread.    
 
Hence, I wouldn't say anyone can win the Cup because the Kings did.  It still takes a certain type of team.  Either the one I described above or a team that just has more talent than everyone else (Hawks this year).

Wings are a team that is looking for its new identity, since we don't have the puck possession game we once did, with Lidstrom and Rafalski gone.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 07 March 2013 - 10:27 PM.
to remove deleted post that was quoted

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#33 amato

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:34 PM

Have you been watching them lately?

They look like a playoff bound team to me.. And after that, any team that makes the playoffs can win the cup.

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#34 saven

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:51 PM

I do find it funny that this thread pops up now when we seem to be playing pretty damn good hockey
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#35 Barrie

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:59 PM

Have you been watching them lately?

They look like a playoff bound team to me.. And after that, any team that makes the playoffs can win the cup.

 

Right, I don't know what everyone else is watching, but this team is good! They work hard, they're tough, fast, block a lot of shots, and Howard is probably playing the best he ever has. Just wait until Helm comes back!

 

I know if I was on one of the other teams in the West, I wouldn't want to play the Wings in the playoffs.


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#36 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:02 PM

Any further posts commenting on the worthiness of the thread will be deleted and warnings/suspensions/permabans will be handed out. 

 

It's pretty simple.  If you don't like the thread, don't post in it. 



#37 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:15 PM

yes the wings have been playing real good as of late and maybe they can win a 1st round depending the match up but in my personal opinion i just dont think after losing lidstrom and stuart and not adding a top defensemen they can win a cup

 

i never liked white and coliacovo, dont think there any good tbh ... kindl lashoff and smith would be in the playoffs fulltime for the fist time all at once(As well as tatar.andersson,nyquist if they play) thats one reason i dont see the wings going all the way

 

and i also think were not as physical or as big as other teams i cant see us going through teams like l.a,chicago,vancouver,saint louis  

 

bertuzzi and samuelsson are aging and injury prone ... the only player coming back making a big difference on this team is darren helm (yes filppula is out but he was with the team most of the year)

 

thats why i think we wont win , yes anybody can win but like someone above said l.a was a smoke and mirrors team they never should of been an 8th team to begin with there full of young stars who are fast big and can hit



#38 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:15 PM

Any further posts commenting on the worthiness of the thread will be deleted and warnings/suspensions/permabans will be handed out. 

 

It's pretty simple.  If you don't like the thread, don't post in it. 

But the Wings are winning the Cup.  :cup: This is crazy talk yo!  

 

In all seriousness, lately with our D getting chemistry with 6 guys gelling and White where he belongs in the press box, if our offence starts getting bounces and more goals come, our boys could go deep this year.  And going in, i sorta wanted them to miss the playoffs to get a good pick.  I just want Ryan Pulock.  Wherever we finish, get the pick around 15 or 16 and get that kid.


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#39 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:19 PM

...But I want to post in the thread even though I don't like it :P

 

The fanboy in me says the Wings can win it every year. 

 

The realist in me thinks the OP is right, even though we still haven't seen the full potential of this team due to injuries and won't because of the shortened season. 

 

LA proved last season that anything can happen though, in hockey you honestly never know. 


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#40 Barrie

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:32 PM

I'm not saying we'll win or lose, but this year going into the playoffs we won't have any pressure (Chicago's going to have all the pressure), and we have guys on the team who have been there and done that. All teams have to do is get a couple breaks, get hot at the right time, and believe in themselves.

 

Again, if I'm on another team in the west, or just a fan, I don't want to play the Wings in the playoffs. Playing this year's Wings in a best of 7 would take a lot out of you.


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