Mike Komisarek placed on waivers

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

In no way is Ericsson a mediocre, overpaid defenseman. If you think that he is Komisarek's equivalent, I can only conclude that you have never seen Komisarek play. For that matter, it sounds as if you've not been watching hockey at all this season.

I agree that Ericsson is much better than Komisarek. But obviously that's not saying much. Ericsson is absolutely mediocre and is definitely overpayed by at least 1 mill. Maybe he still has some untapped potential, but I doubt he will ever be great. He's a solid, big-bodied d-man that isn't terrible or great at any aspect of the game. He's the definition of mediocre IMO

[Guest Crymson]

I agree that Ericsson is much better than Komisarek. But obviously that's not saying much. Ericsson is absolutely mediocre and is definitely overpayed by at least 1 mill. Maybe he still has some untapped potential, but I doubt he will ever be great. He's a solid, big-bodied d-man that isn't terrible or great at any aspect of the game. He's the definition of mediocre IMO

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to all of the inaccuracies in your post. Ericsson has very possibly been the team's overall best defenseman thus far, and certainly so in the defensive end.

I want Komisarek to be a Red Wing less than I want herpes.

You're a truly hardcore fan, then.

[DSM 114]

I agree that Ericsson is much better than Komisarek. But obviously that's not saying much. Ericsson is absolutely mediocre and is definitely overpayed by at least 1 mill. Maybe he still has some untapped potential, but I doubt he will ever be great. He's a solid, big-bodied d-man that isn't terrible or great at any aspect of the game. He's the definition of mediocre IMO

I have to disagree with the notion that he is overpayed. If he would've hit the open market, I'll bet other teams would've offered 1 million MORE than Holland gave him.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to all of the inaccuracies in your post. Ericsson has very possibly been the team's overall best defenseman thus far, and certainly so in the defensive end.

You must not catch many games? For the most part he's been pretty solid defensively, other times he has bad giveaways and loses puck battles in the corners. Just look at the facts, he's a +1 and doesn't often contribute offensively. Many would argue Kindl is more solid defensively. Until Ericsson steps his game up to another level he is the pure definition of mediocre. But I'm glad to see he has his fanboys. I don't hate the guy, but to act like he's some great defensemen is a joke. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

I have to disagree with the notion that he is overpayed. If he would've hit the open market, I'll bet other teams would've offered 1 million MORE than Holland gave him.

I'll def give you that one. Several teams would've jumped on him. But speaking in terms of pure output and everything he brings to the table, he's at least somewhat overpayed. Not way overpayed tho. I def see where Holland was coming from at the time.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

No thanks on Komisarek. The defense has enough depth now. The need is a top pairing guy and Komisarek is far from that.

[number9 3,297]

You must not catch many games? For the most part he's been pretty solid defensively, other times he has bad giveaways and loses puck battles in the corners. Just look at the facts, he's a +1 and doesn't often contribute offensively. Many would argue Kindl is more solid defensively. Until Ericsson steps his game up to another level he is the pure definition of mediocre. But I'm glad to see he has his fanboys. I don't hate the guy, but to act like he's some great defensemen is a joke. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

I'll def give you that one. Several teams would've jumped on him. But speaking in terms of pure output and everything he brings to the table, he's at least somewhat overpayed. Not way overpayed tho. I def see where Holland was coming from at the time.

No one is calling Ericsson a "great" defenseman. A great d man is great in both ends. E is a shut down guy, he's not expected to produce like u keep saying. He's done almost a 180 from how he played last year. He's also on a career high point pace on top of shutting guys down in his own end. If you're really using plus minus to judge his d abilities then maybe u need to catch a few more games instead of crymson

EDIT: Grammar

Edited March 20, 2013 by number9

[achildr1 255]

I agree that Ericsson is much better than Komisarek. But obviously that's not saying much. Ericsson is absolutely mediocre and is definitely overpayed by at least 1 mill. Maybe he still has some untapped potential, but I doubt he will ever be great. He's a solid, big-bodied d-man that isn't terrible or great at any aspect of the game. He's the definition of mediocre IMO

Medioce: Of only moderate quality; not very good

Thank you. I had looked up the definition of mediocre for the sake of solid facts. Ericsson is, at best, of moderate quality. This is the best he's ever played and he's still just a bigger version of Brad Stuart, if that, a #4 guy. Holland gave him that deal before seeing him this year and it was certainly an overpayment at the time. Even the worst players can have good stretchs. While I hope this is the new Ericsson, he's been one of the slowest learners and worst defenseman we've had since he's been here. At the end of last year I remember watching him and you could see on his face that he had no confidance and next to no idea where to be on the ice. He also has/had a milder case of Franzenitis...otherwise known as being a big guy and not using it to your advantage.

No one is calling Ericsson a "great" defenseman. A great d man is great in both ends. E is a shut down guy, he's not expected to produce like u keep saying. He's done almost a 180 from how he played last year. He's also on a career high point pace on top of shutting guys down in his own end. If you're really using plus minus to judge his d abilities then maybe u need to catch a few more games instead of crymson

EDIT: Grammar

To save any unneeded drubbing...i agree that he has been far better than he has ever been. Im impressed. He's been my whipping boy for s o long it almost made me bitter to give up harping on him. That said, 30 games doesnt erase 4 years of history yet, so we'll see how it goes...

[achildr1 255]

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to all of the inaccuracies in your post. Ericsson has very possibly been the team's overall best defenseman thus far, and certainly so in the defensive .

Only in the defensive and that's even debatable. Kronwall has clearly led the offensive D category. Ericsson has probably been the best defensive defenseman on our team but that doesn't say much. A 22 year old, undrafted free agent who was never supposed to make this team is close to being the best defensive defenseman so far. Every other defenseman on our team is either primarily offensive or is simply awful...ie Quincey. Edited March 21, 2013 by achildr1

[evilmrt 636]

Garth Snow to the rescue with the waiver claim!

[Guest Crymson]

Only in the defensive and that's even debatable. Kronwall has clearly led the offensive D category. Ericsson has probably been the best defensive defenseman on our team but that doesn't say much. A 22 year old, undrafted free agent who was never supposed to make this team is close to being the best defensive defenseman so far. Every other defenseman on our team is either primarily offensive or is simply awful...ie Quincey.

Lashoff is nowhere near being as good as Ericsson, as was made evident by his play against the Sedin line. After making three major errors, he was replaced by Ericsson, and the latter performed more than adequately.

I again question if you've really been watching many of the games, but whatever.

Edit: Lashoff just totally blew coverage on Brodziak. Goal.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Crymson

[achildr1 255]

Lashoff is nowhere near being as good as Ericsson, as was made evident by his play against the Sedin line. After making three major errors, he was replaced by Ericsson, and the latter performed more than adequately.

I again question if you've really been watching many of the games, but whatever.

I question whether you unbiasedly read what I post. I didn't say he was as good as Ericsson and i implied that he has been our second best defensive defenseman. I say that because Ericsson, I believe, is fooling your eyes a little bit. Ericsson is playing far better than he ever has but he is not playing any better than a #4 defensive defenseman on the Red Wings should be expected to play. Just because he's way better than he has been doesn't mean he's far better than Lashoff has been (a rookie playing two of the best players in the league after less than 30 games) being replaced by Ericsson (who has played with Lidsteom for 4 years and untill two months ago still looked lost on the ice). I wonder why Lashoff was out against the Sedins to begin with if Ericsson is the second coming of Rod Langway.

Edit: Ericsson has been decent and worth his contract for as long as Lashoff has been in the NHL so they are both suspect. I've watched Ericsson blow coverage on a player more than any other player on this team in the last four years...pardon me if I'm not drinking the kool aid just uet.

Edited March 21, 2013 by achildr1

[Guest Crymson]

I question whether you unbiasedly read what I post. I didn't say he was as good as Ericsson. I say that because Ericsson, I believe, is fooling your eyes a little bit. Ericsson is playing far better than he ever has but he is not playing any better than a #4 defensive defenseman on the Red Wings should be expected to play. Just because he's way better than he has been doesn't mean he's far better than Lashoff has been (a rookie playing two of the best players in the league after less than 30 games) being replaced by Ericsson (who has played with Lidsteom for 4 years and untill two months ago still looked lost on the ice). I wonder why Lashoff was out against the Sedins to begin with if Ericsson is the second coming of Rod Langway.

Fooling my eyes? Perhaps you refer to sorcery?

Ericsson is playing adequately against top opposition.

[achildr1 255]

Fooling my eyes? Perhaps you refer to sorcery?

Ericsson is playing adequately against top opposition.

There's the keyword. Adequate. Ericsson is finally worth his ice time and I love seeing it. I'd be thrilled if this kid fulfills his potential. I've just watched his look like a deer in the headlights for almost five years and I was literally blown away we gave him that contract. Wings don't usually overpay for uselessness. That said, if he keeps this up, were better off for it. Keep it coming Big E. Edited March 21, 2013 by achildr1

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

There's the keyword. Adequate. Ericsson is finally worth his ice time and I love seeing it. I'd be thrilled if this kid fulfills his potential. I've just watched his look like a deer in the headlights for almost five years and I was literally blown away we gave him that contract. Wings don't usually overpay for uselessness. That said, if he keeps this up, were better off for it. Keep it coming Big E.

Ericsson is logging more ice time than anyone not named Kronwall and is the #1 PK defenseman. He's not the #4 guy.

I wasn't sure he'd earn his contract but the Wings are getting their money's worth out of him already.

And I never really understood why people think his potential was so high. He's a converted defenseman taken dead last in the draft. Great size. Booming but slow slapshot. Great first pass. But he's mostly a stay at home guy, not some offensive juggernaut. Ericsson is already a win for the Wings. Kindl is the one who is well below his potential.

[e_prime 1,936]

You must not catch many games? For the most part he's been pretty solid defensively, other times he has bad giveaways and loses puck battles in the corners. Just look at the facts, he's a +1 and doesn't often contribute offensively. Many would argue Kindl is more solid defensively. Until Ericsson steps his game up to another level he is the pure definition of mediocre. But I'm glad to see he has his fanboys. I don't hate the guy, but to act like he's some great defensemen is a joke. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

I'll def give you that one. Several teams would've jumped on him. But speaking in terms of pure output and everything he brings to the table, he's at least somewhat overpayed. Not way overpayed tho. I def see where Holland was coming from at the time.

Players are often paid for their future potential... additionally, as mentioned, they are paid to keep them happy and to keep other teams from signing them.

Our numbered values for players in dollar amounts are usually off... and better let up to professionals and cap-ologists.

That being said, I initially balked at his cap-hit, but have been confident with his improvement and hope he keeps it up.

Medioce: Of only moderate quality; not very good

Thank you. I had looked up the definition of mediocre for the sake of solid facts. Ericsson is, at best, of moderate quality. This is the best he's ever played and he's still just a bigger version of Brad Stuart, if that, a #4 guy. Holland gave him that deal before seeing him this year and it was certainly an overpayment at the time. Even the worst players can have good stretchs. While I hope this is the new Ericsson, he's been one of the slowest learners and worst defenseman we've had since he's been here. At the end of last year I remember watching him and you could see on his face that he had no confidance and next to no idea where to be on the ice. He also has/had a milder case of Franzenitis...otherwise known as being a big guy and not using it to your advantage.

To save any unneeded drubbing...i agree that he has been far better than he has ever been. Im impressed. He's been my whipping boy for s o long it almost made me bitter to give up harping on him. That said, 30 games doesnt erase 4 years of history yet, so we'll see how it goes...

So, everyone's watching games but we're all seeing different things... hmmm... when you've decided they're your whipping boy, how clearly are we watching the player and their game?

I don't think Ericsson has ever been slotted with potential higher than a #4 role and is is doing well enough to keep him in that role.

Either way, this fanboy is glad to see you're willing to give him a chance as I think he'll be around for a while.

On topic: No to Komi. I had thoughts about him earlier in the season, but once Lashoff stepped up and we got Huskins... my mind quickly drifted from those delusions.

Edited March 21, 2013 by e_prime

[achildr1 255]

Ericsson is logging more ice time than anyone not named Kronwall and is the #1 PK defenseman. He's not the #4 guy.

I wasn't sure he'd earn his contract but the Wings are getting their money's worth out of him already.

And I never really understood why people think his potential was so high. He's a converted defenseman taken dead last in the draft. Great size. Booming but slow slapshot. Great first pass. But he's mostly a stay at home guy, not some offensive juggernaut. Ericsson is already a win for the Wings. Kindl is the one who is well below his potential.

He is a #4 guy...because we don't have #1 or #3 type guys. My ratings are on the type teams we've had or a Championship caliber team.

Kronwall #2

Ericsson #4 (if he plays like this)

Smith #5 (potential #2)

White, Colaiacovo, Quincey #5

Kindl #5 (right now)

Lashoff #6-7

For reference...

Lidstrom #1

Rafalski #2

Fischer, Schneider #3

Stuart, Markov #4

Edited March 21, 2013 by achildr1

[achildr1 255]

Players are often paid for their future potential... additionally, as mentioned, they are paid to keep them happy and to keep other teams from signing them.

Our numbered values for players in dollar amounts are usually off... and better let up to professionals and cap-ologists.

That being said, I initially balked at his cap-hit, but have been confident with his improvement and hope he keeps it up.

So, everyone's watching games but we're all seeing different things... hmmm... when you've decided they're your whipping boy, how clearly are we watching the player and their game?

I don't think Ericsson has ever been slotted with potential higher than a #4 role and is is doing well enough to keep him in that role.

Either way, this fanboy* is glad to see you're willing to give him a chance as I think he'll be around for a while.

He was my whipping boy because I watched his game closely. Because I was blown away by the way people overhyped him, how many chances he got, and his current contract. If the guy would have just used his aize like he could of over the last few years I wouldn't have made such a big deal, but he just refused to. I'm very glad to see the guys thay were underperforming step up. Kindl has also turned it aroind in a big way and I'm glad for it. I hope they both keep it up.

[e_prime 1,936]

He is a #4 guy...because we don't have #1 or #3 type guys. My ratings are on the type teams we've had or a Championship caliber team.

Kronwall #2

Ericsson #4 (if he plays like this)

Smith #5 (potential #2)

White, Colaiacovo, Quincey #5

Kindl #5 (right now)

Lashoff #6-7

So, what you're saying is that we still need a number one defenseman? (I think most of us here are in agreement)

[achildr1 255]

So, what you're saying is that we still need a number one defenseman? (I think most of us here are in agreement)

That wasn't even vaguely my point, but yea, I think we all know that. The bigger issue was just saying that even if Ericsson plays the #1 pk and he's our best defensive defenseman, he's still a #4 guy. We just have a very weak defensive core. You could argue Howard is the biggest key to our defense now; oir best defensive "cog".

Edited March 21, 2013 by achildr1

[Richdg 267]

That wasn't even vaguely my point, but yea, I think we all know that. The bigger issue was just saying that even if Ericsson plays the #1 pk and he's our best defensive defenseman, he's still a #4 guy. We just have a very weak defensive core. You could argue Howard is the biggest key to our defense now; oir best defensive "cog".

Average? LOL!!!! Yousaid he was bad end of last year? WTF are you talking about? Last 1/3 of last season he was the best Dman we had by far and away. Better than Nicky. When it comes to Ericsson, I will take Chelios's opinion over anyones. he thinks he is great! Go back and re-watch Chelis comments at Nicky's retirement party last summer.

Now is Ericsson a number 1? No. Is he a solid 2/3? yes. Is he worth 3.25 million per season? hell yes! If he was a UFA this year, he would get 5 million per yer. Next year he will get that amount or more.......

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

He is a #4 guy...because we don't have #1 or #3 type guys. My ratings are on the type teams we've had or a Championship caliber team.

Kronwall #2

Ericsson #4 (if he plays like this)

Smith #5 (potential #2)

White, Colaiacovo, Quincey #5

Kindl #5 (right now)

Lashoff #6-7

For reference...

Lidstrom #1

Rafalski #2

Fischer, Schneider #3

Stuart, Markov #4

So your determination of what constitutes a #4 versus a #1 guy isn't determined by what they do on the ice?

Your perception of what constitutes a #4 or a #2 guy also seems very attached to the Wings defensive pairings of the past. And also seems based on a #1 defenseman that comes around well, really only a few times in the history of hockey. Very few teams have a #1 guy of the caliber of Lidstrom. Holland is very set in this model, replacing Scheider with Rafalski, then trying to replace Rafalski with White, but that's not the only way it has to be.

Willie Mitchell, for example, was the #2 guy in LA and he's not exactly a Brian Rafalski. And that was a championship team. Plus Scuderi, who by your system would probably be called a #4/5 guy was actually #3 on LA. The "type" of player a defenseman is doesn't determine if they're a #2 versus a 4, 5, or 6 guy.

[Guest Crymson]

He was my whipping boy because I watched his game closely. Because I was blown away by the way people overhyped him, how many chances he got, and his current contract. If the guy would have just used his aize like he could of over the last few years I wouldn't have made such a big deal, but he just refused to. I'm very glad to see the guys thay were underperforming step up. Kindl has also turned it aroind in a big way and I'm glad for it. I hope they both keep it up.

He was my whipping boy for two seasons because he had tons of potential and numerous physical gifts and did not use any of it properly. This year he is playing physically and with intelligence, and boneheaded plays are few and far between.

Harold can corroborate that for a good while I detested Ericsson above any other player on the team.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

No thanks, we don't need anymore washed up leaf garbage. Especially at that cap hit

[arag 308]

Komisarek is terrible !

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[achildr1 255]

So your determination of what constitutes a #4 versus a #1 guy isn't determined by what they do on the ice?

Your perception of what constitutes a #4 or a #2 guy also seems very attached to the Wings defensive pairings of the past. And also seems based on a #1 defenseman that comes around well, really only a few times in the history of hockey. Very few teams have a #1 guy of the caliber of Lidstrom. Holland is very set in this model, replacing Scheider with Rafalski, then trying to replace Rafalski with White, but that's not the only way it has to be.

Willie Mitchell, for example, was the #2 guy in LA and he's not exactly a Brian Rafalski. And that was a championship team. Plus Scuderi, who by your system would probably be called a #4/5 guy was actually #3 on LA. The "type" of player a defenseman is doesn't determine if they're a #2 versus a 4, 5, or 6 guy.

"So your determination of what constitutes a #4 versus a #1 guy isn't determined by what they do on the ice?"

Give me a break man. I can't figure out how anyone could get that out of what i said. I have been passionately playing and watching this game for essentially my entire life. I have studied the game and the older I get the more I look at it from a more analytical scrutiny, less of a fan perspective and more of a game philosophy perspective. It's all about what they do on the ice. Actually Ericsson has been judged by others for his whole career by other factors such as potential or size. People wouldnt just come out and say that even though he's young, big, and been playing in the NHL for years that he was actually not performing up to argueably even having a starting 6 job in the NHL. He was given a contract based on potential, because he certainly didnt deserve it.

My main point is that just because Kronwall is our best offensive defenseman and Ericsson is our best defensive defenseman (for 30 whole games of his career mind you) that doesnt make either of them more than they are in the scope of the entire NHL. You are correct, I would say that Scuderi is a #5 and Mitchell is not a #2. Also, there are not 30, #1 defenseman in this league which may be part of the confusion. My definition of a #1 defenseman is more what you'd call a franchise defenseman or an "elite" player, the type of guy you build a team around. Keith, Weber, Chara, Karlsson (if he continues at this rate), Suter are these guys. Pietriangelo, Letang, Burns, and maybe a couple others could be considered #1 guys. Kronwall is on the bubble. If he steps up defensively and continues hitting he will be a legit #1. Byugflien, Cambell, Yandle, Seabrook, and Del Zotto are #2's and so on. If Ericsson continues being this good (which would prove to be one of the most remarkable turn arounds in recent memory) he could be a legit #3.

I guess i can see where this might not make sense to someone looking at guys and saying that there are 30 #1, 30 #2 and so on. I would be interested in looking at it that way, see what those lists look like. I dont like lumping the elite guys with secondary guys though, probably why i do it that way. To me a #1 guy is the Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer...the guy you put out there and have complete confidance in when the game is on the line. Kronwall is not that guy. My nightmares are made of Ericsson being our most relied upon shutdown defender unless he really has become an altogether different player.

Edited March 21, 2013 by achildr1