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Wings Make Offer to Danny D!

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I feel like Dekeyser has been set up on a silver platter for the Wings, they just need to move in and make it happen. They've got every possible advantage over the other 29 offers this kid is gonna get...hometown, WMU, friend's with Nill's kid, loves the Red Wings...GET ER DONE KENNY!

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I feel like Dekeyser has been set up on a silver platter for the Wings, they just need to move in and make it happen. They've got every possible advantage over the other 29 offers this kid is gonna get...hometown, WMU, friend's with Nill's kid, loves the Red Wings...GET ER DONE KENNY!

Yes indeedy. The downside, of course, is...he's been set up on a silver platter for the Wings. So: if Holland fumbles this, the fans cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. And all that.

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Yes indeedy. The downside, of course, is...he's been set up on a silver platter for the Wings. So: if Holland fumbles this, the fans cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. And all that.

If there's no difference on the money, how exactly can Kenny "fumble" this? Some people want to be near home and family. Some young people want to get as far away as possible. Perhaps he'd feel more pressure to play with the Wings? If the Wings get him, fine. If not, no big deal. I think most people here really don't know that much about him, they just want to "win" the DeKeyser sweepstakes.

Edited by Playmaker

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Yes indeedy. The downside, of course, is...he's been set up on a silver platter for the Wings. So: if Holland fumbles this, the fans cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. And all that.

I don't see how Holland can do much more than he already has.

The money is the same. Holland has promised the kid to start in the NHL. Its not like Holland has something he can offer the kid that 15 other clubs aren't offering. His favorite team is the Red Wings so that factors into his favor.

The point is that it isn't on Hollands shoulders at all. He has done his due diligence. If the kid signs elsewhere, that his choice. Not Holland's fault for not being Obi Wan Kenobi. "Sign here Danny (waves his hand)." :D

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If there's no difference on the money, how exactly can Kenny "fumble" this? Some peope want to be near home and family. Some young people want to get as far away as possible. Perhaps he'd feel more pressure to play with the Wings? If the Wings get him, fine. If not, no big deal. I think most people here really don't know that much about him, they just want to "win" the DeKeyser sweepstakes.

I cannot like this enough. People need to stop with the "Holland better get this done or its his fault" mentality. Holland has done everything he can do. Danny has to make up his mind and sign. Holland can't make him sign.

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I cannot like this enough. People need to stop with the "Holland better get this done or its his fault" mentality. Holland has done everything he can do. Danny has to make up his mind and sign. Holland can't make him sign.

You mean..it's not just navigating thru the different levels, knowing the shortcuts, being skilled with the joystick, knowing how and when to jailbreak, and clicking the right buttons at the right time?!! :shout: I'm sure somebody has already posted a video on youtube on "How to land Dekeyser"; Holland's a moron if he does't look it up.

Edited by T.Low

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Wasn't today supposed to be decision day?

They're reporting late tomorrow - early friday now. I really thought he was fielding all of his offers yesterday and was surprised to find out that he was fielding more offers today, especially the Wings (not that I think this is bad, i'd rather go later in the lineup than sooner.)

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I tend to agree that those who get upset at Holland for failing to make things happen since last summer are off-base, as he did do all he could when in those situations, as I'm sure he's doing now. But it doesn't tell the whole story. What most Holland-bashers screw up on is thinking Holland dropped the ball say last summer with Parise and Suter or if DeKeyser doesn't sign here, then he obviously dropped the ball because it was an easy set up. But it's ultimately irrelevant what he does now with these guys in many ways when it's the team that's been put together over the last 4-5 years that's going to speak more to these players than what Holland says now. If Holland dropped the ball, it's been in not doing more to address player losses in years past, or failing to prepare for the loss of Lidstrom before he was up against a wall and desperate.

After all, does anyone really think this would be a question for DeKeyser if the team looked more competitive on a consistent basis? If Holland had done a better job since our last Cup win at helping this team evolve, he likely wouldn't have to do much selling at all to someone like DeKeyser.

But in any event, what happened happened, and while I haven't been a fan of many of the decisions for some time now, I can at least say that Holland is trying to do what he can since last summer to address issues. There's nothing more he can really do now, and presently, given the situation, you can't say he's not trying and doing the best he can. But he is stuck playing catchup you could say, and for that it is in many ways his own fault.

A team with Hossa instead of Franzen and a legitimate number one defensemen replacement installed before Lidstrom retired instead of some of our tradable assets over the last few years is going to be a more attractive team to anyone he's trying to sign today. He got sentimental when things were still good and we weren't feeling the full heat of the cap, and the team that emerged out of that was not the team that he could use as leverage to get guys to really want to sign here, let alone for less than market value anymore. You could say that it's just the effects of parity brought on by the cap, and that's absolutely right on many levels. But if Holland was as good of a GM in the cap era as some thought he was prior to the cap, he would've done a better job of maintaining this team's prestige when he had the opportunity 3-4 years ago to do so. That's when he truly dropped the ball; back when things were good and people weren't paying enough attention.

And yes, I know this team isn't terrible, and it's impressive that we're still in the playoff hunt with the team we have this year. That's all fine and dandy, though make no mistake, it really does help that we still have Dats and Z hanging around. But that's also the tragedy, as we still have Pavs and Z, which almost by default make this team competitive every night. And if a few more pieces were in place that could've been in place, this team wouldn't consistently still be a team that could make the playoffs, but a team that could legitimately challenge for the Cup every year. I know you don't win every year, but while you have the benefit of having Dats and Z on your team, it'd be nice to think a little more than, "we have a good chance of making the playoffs," and Hossa, a Lidstrom successor at least in title of legitimate number one defenseman, less old scraps and more youth would've been a big step in that direction. And if we had those things, we might've had a better opportunity of landing solid veteran help willing to play for less to win a Cup.

Or a better opportunity of signing a much sought-after free-agent defenseman with potential to contribute right away.

But we don't have that same leverage anymore. That didn't happen last summer, and it didn't happen while Holland was chatting with DeKeyser. That happened because over the last four years, when it was clear to anyone willing to admit it that some of our guys wouldn't play forever, and some of our newer guys weren't so proven, when the team needed to be truly evolving, nothing was done.

Edited by gcom007

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Just curious, but what #1 defenseman was available that the Wings had a legitimate chance of getting over the past two or 3 seasons, that would fit within the salary cap, that wouldn't cost the Wings a fortune, that wouldn't cost the Wings a major piece of the present team, or the future? He made a legitimate offer to Suter and he declined to play at home. Seriously, you think someone offered the Wings a deal for a top 5 defenseman for Cleary and White and Holland went, hmmm, nope, I think Lidstrom is going to play forever. And he was supposed to do this while signing Hossa, stocking the farm with good young players, staying within the salary cap and being in the SCF every year? So which other teams have done this in any sport?

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You mean..it's not just navigating thru the different levels, knowing the shortcuts, being skilled with the joystick, knowing how and when to jailbreak, and clicking the right buttons at the right time?!! :shout: I'm sure somebody has already posted a video on youtube on "How to land Dekeyser"; Holland's a moron if he does't look it up.

Not to derail the thread, but using the "XBox analogy" on a sports forum is akin to yelling "RACISM" in every political debate. It's tired and overused. Same with those who accuse others of living in "mom's basement." Let's toss these lame insults. We can do better!

/unhighjack

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I tend to agree that those who get upset at Holland for failing to make things happen since last summer are off-base, as he did do all he could when in those situations, as I'm sure he's doing now. But it doesn't tell the whole story. What most Holland-bashers screw up on is thinking Holland dropped the ball say last summer with Parise and Suter or if DeKeyser doesn't sign here, then he obviously dropped the ball because it was an easy set up. But it's ultimately irrelevant what he does now with these guys in many ways when it's the team that's been put together over the last 4-5 years that's going to speak more to these players than what Holland says now. If Holland dropped the ball, it's been in not doing more to address player losses in years past, or failing to prepare for the loss of Lidstrom before he was up against a wall and desperate.

After all, does anyone really think this would be a question for DeKeyser if the team looked more competitive on a consistent basis? If Holland had done a better job since our last Cup win at helping this team evolve, he likely wouldn't have to do much selling at all to someone like DeKeyser.

But in any event, what happened happened, and while I haven't been a fan of many of the decisions for some time now, I can at least say that Holland is trying to do what he can since last summer to address issues. There's nothing more he can really do now, and presently, given the situation, you can't say he's not trying and doing the best he can. But he is stuck playing catchup you could say, and for that it is in many ways his own fault.

A team with Hossa instead of Franzen and a legitimate number one defensemen replacement installed before Lidstrom retired instead of some of our tradable assets over the last few years is going to be a more attractive team to anyone he's trying to sign today. He got sentimental when things were still good and we weren't feeling the full heat of the cap, and the team that emerged out of that was not the team that he could use as leverage to get guys to really want to sign here, let alone for less than market value anymore. You could say that it's just the effects of parity brought on by the cap, and that's absolutely right on many levels. But if Holland was as good of a GM in the cap era as some thought he was prior to the cap, he would've done a better job of maintaining this team's prestige when he had the opportunity 3-4 years ago to do so. That's when he truly dropped the ball; back when things were good and people weren't paying enough attention.

And yes, I know this team isn't terrible, and it's impressive that we're still in the playoff hunt with the team we have this year. That's all fine and dandy, though make no mistake, it really does help that we still have Dats and Z hanging around. But that's also the tragedy, as we still have Pavs and Z, which almost by default make this team competitive every night. And if a few more pieces were in place that could've been in place, this team wouldn't consistently still be a team that could make the playoffs, but a team that could legitimately challenge for the Cup every year. I know you don't win every year, but while you have the benefit of having Dats and Z on your team, it'd be nice to think a little more than, "we have a good chance of making the playoffs," and Hossa, a Lidstrom successor at least in title of legitimate number one defenseman, less old scraps and more youth would've been a big step in that direction. And if we had those things, we might've had a better opportunity of landing solid veteran help willing to play for less to win a Cup.

Or a better opportunity of signing a much sought-after free-agent defenseman with potential to contribute right away.

But we don't have that same leverage anymore. That didn't happen last summer, and it didn't happen while Holland was chatting with DeKeyser. That happened because over the last four years, when it was clear to anyone willing to admit it that some of our guys wouldn't play forever, and some of our newer guys weren't so proven, when the team needed to be truly evolving, nothing was done.

I have to admit, this was a damn good post. I really cannot say you were incorrect in any of your assessments.

We really cannot say that Holland is a great post cap GM just as we can't say Yzerman is the same in Tampa Bay. The truly good GMs of the cap era are the ones that make the playoffs every year IMHO. Thats really all you can ask for. You cannot predict how a team will gel. You cannot predict chemistry. The days of the dynasty are over in the NHL. The new dynasty is making the playoffs, which the Wings have done for 20+ straight seasons, which is a record.

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I have to admit, this was a damn good post. I really cannot say you were incorrect in any of your assessments.

We really cannot say that Holland is a great post cap GM just as we can't say Yzerman is the same in Tampa Bay. The truly good GMs of the cap era are the ones that make the playoffs every year IMHO. Thats really all you can ask for. You cannot predict how a team will gel. You cannot predict chemistry. The days of the dynasty are over in the NHL. The new dynasty is making the playoffs, which the Wings have done for 20+ straight seasons, which is a record.

The NHL instituted a salary cap in 2005. The Wings have made the playoffs every year, won a Stanley Cup, made it to game 7 of the Stanely Cup finals, several conference finals and we can't say Holland is a great post cap GM? Who would be then?

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The NHL instituted a salary cap in 2005. The Wings have made the playoffs every year, won a Stanley Cup, made it to game 7 of the Stanely Cup finals, several conference finals and we can't say Holland is a great post cap GM? Who would be then?

He also hasn't faced anything like we have now either. These next couple of seasons will truly tell us the kind of gm Holland is. He has done good and bad things a lot more good than bad IMO. But these next few years will tell us if he was a good gm or a great gm....imo

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The NHL instituted a salary cap in 2005. The Wings have made the playoffs every year, won a Stanley Cup, made it to game 7 of the Stanely Cup finals, several conference finals and we can't say Holland is a great post cap GM? Who would be then?

I definitely give the Flyers GM a nod for burying Prongers contract and signing an elite superstar goalie for 7 years and having superb D all the while. :ok:

Also, Minnesota's GM for having 5 guys over 6 mil and 3 of those 5 over 7 mil. :clap:

Gonna give a nod to good old Garth Snow for having 1/3 of his cap to goalies and 2/3 of his goalie's salary is going to Pina Coladas.

Edmonton's GM is pretty much the man. 312 forwards under 24 and 1 good Dman that he got cause he didn't want to play for the Ducks. Instead of puck hogs with attitude problems like Yakupov, why not build at least once from the back end and draft Ryan Murray? Naw, all that offense is making sure they don't get shutout numerous times in a shortened season. ;)

Kenny Holland has to be the worst GM in the league by far with crappy company in Boston, Chicago and LA. Cause they all won cups since 2008 and are pretty much terrible now. :lol:

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The NHL instituted a salary cap in 2005. The Wings have made the playoffs every year, won a Stanley Cup, made it to game 7 of the Stanely Cup finals, several conference finals and we can't say Holland is a great post cap GM? Who would be then?

Since we were really feeling the cap when we were still paying Zetterberg around $2.5 million/season? Or when we had one Stanley Cup winning goalie playing for around a million (who won us our last Cup) and another Stanley Cup winning goalie playing for $2 million and bonuses? Or when Franzen was making less than a million and actually producing? Or when Flip was doing as much as he does now for less than a million? Or when we still had Lidstrom, money be damned?

We didn't have to start putting together a real cap team until 2009-2010. We were so stocked before the cap because of Mr. I's wallet that we didn't have to rush any talent, so by the time we start using some of our prospects, we had solid NHLers who were contributing far more than one would expect from typical guys making the kind of money they were. Once Holland had to start making cap decisions and signing our younger guys to real NHL deals, he has struggled in my opinion. And again, I'm not saying he utterly and completely failed, but I don't think he was great and I absolutely don't think he put the best team on the ice that he could. Whether we make the playoffs or not, if you can look at the situation and say, "you could do better," than something isn't right.

He's had a pattern of favoring guys that we develop, whether it made the most hockey sense or not, and in multiple cases, it didn't, and it really bit us in the ass. I still think the worst off-season was the summer of 2009 when he failed to sign any of our FAs, but made sure to sign Franzen to a lifetime deal before the regular season ended. He could've signed Hossa for around a million more per year, but instead prioritized the signing of Franzen, a one-dimensional player with only a couple strong seasons to his name, and Hudler, another small, one-dimensional player who ended up leaving for Russia anyways. When you have a chance to lock up a legitimate superstar who will outwork nearly everyone on the ice every night at both ends for a $5 million cap hit or less, you don't focus on Franzen and Hudler, or hell, Samuellson for that matter, who also left.

But it ended in an interesting manner, because he picked up some solid guys on the cheap because he had no other choice when he failed to sign anyone. And oddly, I'd say this is his strength. He's pretty good at finding descent NHL level guys like Patrick Eaves for very little money, bringing them in and getting a good amount of solid hockey out of them. What's nuts is that if he had his priorities straight, he could've kept Hossa and still would've ended up signing these types of guys to fill out the team with the cap space he had left.

But he keeps going back to the same old well for a lot of the same old guys. For the love, we signed Samuellson again this last off-season! And sure, we're making the playoffs, but like I said, there's that nagging "you could do better" factor. After all, when you have a team with Dats and Z and a descent goaltender, let alone when we had Nick Lidstrom anchoring our defense, I would hope you'd be in the playoffs every year! But I didn't know we were supposed to be satisfied with that, especially when it's practically a given when you have Dats and Z and Lidstrom and descent goaltending? Sure, it's nice, and I'm not saying it's not an accomplishment, but we should be there with the guys we have. That we don't go farther with the guys we have when Holland has had the power to put a better team on the ice and hasn't is the problem.

Most every good thing that's happened to this team in the cap era is a gift from the pre-cap era. Since the cap has started to catch up with us, things haven't looked so hot. And hell, when you've got whispers around time from guys who know and blatant remarks made to the press from the coach about dissatisfaction with what Holland's been doing, especially when we've had cap space and when we have enough prospects to move guys without leveraging the future, you've got to wonder if this is more than Armchair-GM critique at some point.

Bottom line, we've had a lot of guys leave the last few years, and little has been done to address it. We've had plenty of questionable signings. We've let guys slip away. We've failed to make moves to improve the team when opportunities are out there. We utterly and completely failed to prepare for the loss of Lidstrom before we were placed into a position of desperation.

And for the love, I don't care who was or wasn't available. Bottom line is, when you know you're going to lose a guy like Lidstrom, you move mountains to make a deal to land someone who can help bridge the gap and instill confidence. You really want to try and tell me Holland couldn't have brought in a solid guy capable of serving in that #1 role before Lidstrom left? I don't care if you have to give up prospects, picks, solid roster people, or overpay. You're in an infinitely better position before you lose Lidstrom than after, when every team or player is going to be demanding all the more from you, knowing you're desperate, all while you no longer have the benefit of being able to say, "you're going to be on a pairing with one of the greatest hockey players in history until he retires." You really want to try to tell me Holland couldn't have shaken enough trees to find even another Kronwall-level guy to at least help ease the pain somewhat before Lidstrom left? Please.

We have a core in place still that allows this team to compete every night, but the core deserves better. This should be a team that's not just able to make the playoffs, but have a legitimate chance of going the distance. I expect this team to get by in the regular season these days, but I don't expect anything out of the playoffs, when nearly every other team in the playoffs the last couple years has been able to show they're capable of making a racket? Why do I think that is? We don't have another level to go to anymore. We've got a lot of tired guys who don't have nearly as much to play for anymore after winning Cups and feeling the grind a few too many times. I'd rather have young, unproven guys than some of the guys we have hanging around still, because at least they still have something to prove. That is what motivates guys to find another level for the playoffs. We were lucky enough to be able to let our guys get ripe in GR so we could pay them less when they could contribute at a high level before, but I really don't know how much longer that's going to work in the cap era. It's one thing to let vets carry you through the season, but these mid-level vets with little left to play for don't get the job done in the playoffs.

And lastly, again, some of the guys Holland's ended up bringing in the last 3-4 years haven't been bad guys at all. I'm fine with Eaves, Miller, Tootoo, and a few others here and there. But he brought those guys in when he had no other choices. He could've done the same thing and made better high-end choices before he was up against the wall only to come up dry. That's the real problem with Holland. I think he could be a great cap-era GM if he gets back to making splashes like Rafalski or Hossa and then finding cheap guys who can contribute and have something to prove. I'm glad he hasn't thrown a ton of money at a goalie as I think it's one of the dumbest investments some teams make. But all in all, the "you could do better" thing hangs over the last four years like a cloudy sky on the verge of rain.

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I definitely give the Flyers GM a nod for burying Prongers contract and signing an elite superstar goalie for 7 years and having superb D all the while. :ok:

Also, Minnesota's GM for having 5 guys over 6 mil and 3 of those 5 over 7 mil. :clap:

Gonna give a nod to good old Garth Snow for having 1/3 of his cap to goalies and 2/3 of his goalie's salary is going to Pina Coladas.

Edmonton's GM is pretty much the man. 312 forwards under 24 and 1 good Dman that he got cause he didn't want to play for the Ducks. Instead of puck hogs with attitude problems like Yakupov, why not build at least once from the back end and draft Ryan Murray? Naw, all that offense is making sure they don't get shutout numerous times in a shortened season. ;)

Kenny Holland has to be the worst GM in the league by far with crappy company in Boston, Chicago and LA. Cause they all won cups since 2008 and are pretty much terrible now. :lol:

Exactly. Since everything is a black and white issue. If he's not great, he's obviously the worst. There's no room for anything in-between, obviously.

Edited by gcom007

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