stevie for president 42 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 I don't mean to hijack this thread, but why is everyone calling for us to be sellers and rebuild? You have Paterson and Mrazek as two big time goalie prospects with a youngish starter in Howard. If Dekeyser signs in Detroit, they'll have Smith, Kindl, Sproul, Backman, Ouellet, and Dekeyser all just hitting or in the middle of their prime in 4-5 years (not to mention Kronwall, Ericsson, and Quincey as potentially very good veterans at that point). On offense, we have prospects who should be major contributors in 4-5 years like Andersson, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Frk, Jurco, Nyquist, Tatar, and possibly McKee if he switches to LW like I've seen people on here say he should. This is in addition to Zetterberg, Helm, Brunner, Abdelkader, and Emmerton. Datsyuk and Franzen could potentially be here in 5 years, but I doubt it.Anyway, the point of this post is to say that assuming the Red Wings get 0 prospects, 0 big trades, 0 superstar UFAs, and their current prospects develop as projected, the Red Wings will still be very good (especially defensively and in net). The Wings should be buyers, not sellers. They should go for Dekeyser and a top 6 winger for the Datsyuk-Franzen line. If they get healthy and 1 big forward, they'll be in the conversation with Anaheim and Chicago. We don't need a rebuild; we already have one of the best farm systems in the league today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan… it’s taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where he’s going to play… 1 Serratoni reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 JESUS JUST SIGN DANNY! 2 evilmrt and Cloune reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sputman 1,268 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan… it’s taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where he’s going to play… I'm sure he's already made up his mind. He's had a long time to think about this, it's not like he's just started to think about this last weekend. It's a 23 year old kid deciding where to buy his first house and potentially settle in to adulthood. Nobody's going to swoop in and hard-sell him away from his plan. It's like others have said, he's just enjoying the star treatment and why not? He's been passed over in drafts and this must be an exciting time. 2 Rick D and frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HockeytownRules19 902 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 I'm sure he's already made up his mind. He's had a long time to think about this, it's not like he's just started to think about this last weekend. It's a 23 year old kid deciding where to buy his first house and potentially settle in to adulthood. Nobody's going to swoop in and hard-sell him away from his plan. It's like others have said, he's just enjoying the star treatment and why not? He's been passed over in drafts and this must be an exciting time. I agree completely Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 probably waiting until the iginla stuff blows over a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmamolo 287 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 Frank, you and I have had our differences, but I agree with you. The Wings playoff streak is nice, but I would rather see the Wings really compete every few years than just make the playoffs and die in the first or second round every year. The problem is that Wings fans as a whole would hate to see them tank for 2-3 years just to rebuild. I don't know that too many ppl are screaming for a complete rebuild and I don't know that even what you're saying (tanking for 2-3 yrs) is even necessary. To me, the Wings aren't legi contenders right now so things like defensive depth going into the playoffs shouldn't be a huge factor for them. Personally, I would like to see them makes some trades of depth players (i.e. White, Colo, Huskins, and even maybe some of the depth forwards) that way they get assets (draft picks) in return (since at the deadline these depth players are more valuable) plus it frees up roster flexibility this summer. I think we are used to the Wings being contenders (whether they truly were in previous years or not, the mind set was that they were) so we're not used to moving roster players. So now, if the Wings do move roster players it implies tanking/rebuilding. But so long as you core is in tact I wouldnt consider it tanking. 1 Nightfall reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilmrt 636 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan its taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where hes going to play Yep, I don't get the circus act when the other few NCAA players that were sought after signed quietly on Monday or Tuesday. 1 Dominator2005 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogreslayer 1,069 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 Yep, I don't get the circus act when the other few NCAA players that were sought after signed quietly on Monday or Tuesday. Proabably has to do with the fact that not all 30 teams were interested as much in those other players that have signed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 If he were to sign here, would he even play with Datsyuk? by the time he gets up here, Dats will be a year or two away from retirement (say it ain't so!) but he is closer to the end of the road than the beginning. How can you even use that as an incentive? Whereas a young team like Pittsburgh will have all of those same players when he comes up. We don't have young superstars like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 That is a ridiculous standard, and if you were to apply it to any other GM in the history of any sport you're not going to find even one you think is adequate. In the span of a few seasons we lost Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull, Robitaille, Fischer, Larionov, Hasek, among others, plus maybe the best coach of all time. Chelios went from a Norris candidate to depth player, Draper and Maltby from invaluable role-players to guys filling out the roster. We'd lost in the first round, second round, and first round. We had a lot of good prospects and could afford to lose some. Plus we made the transition to the cap era. Holland made some moves, some were decent, some not so much. We signed some cast-offs that no one else wanted, brought up some young guys, signed one big UFA. It worked and we won a Cup. It wasn't luck that we had a bunch of cheap guys. It's what you have to do in the cap era. Then we had to start paying guys and trying to fill the rest of the roster with bargains. Some of those guys were decent, some not so much. It's just not reasonable to expect that we should have had a replacement for Lidstrom before he left. The only way to get that is to get lucky, either with a prospect or someone else's cast off. If you want someone already proven, you would have had to give up a lot to get them, and we couldn't have fit them under the cap. We would have had to make the team worse in previous years. Maybe in hindsight you can say they should have, because we haven't done much in the playoffs anyway, but really you all would have just been bitching about mismanagement back then. Some people are completely backward in thinking that the biggest needs, the biggest losses, should be the easiest to fill. Fact is, those holes have the fewest available options and the least margin for error. That's why almost no one, in any sport, in any era in history, has much success filling them without a hitch. Nothing Holland could have done would have been better than landing Suter and Parise (particularly since we wouldn't have had to give up anything), and he put us in position to make a strong play for both of them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. But we're still in a good position to add more, and we still have a well stocked prospect pool. Maybe, probably even, things will get worse before they get better. That's the nature of the beast. We need stars and those almost always come through the draft. Once we have our next generation of stars, then will come the time to start making trades and looking for a good UFA or two to put us over the top. Hopefully at that time, some of the young prospects we have now will emerge to fill some roles at bargain prices. Sure, we could make a move or two now and it might work out. Or not. Look at the Rangers, Philly, San Jose... Maybe Holland could have done better. But who actually has? Pittsburgh? Cup winner, last three years lost in the 2nd, 1st, and 1st round. Found some nice fits at forwards, including one absolute steal of a trade, wrecked their defense. Looking good this year, maybe they'll go somewhere, maybe not. Their best players can't stay healthy, probably going to have cap troubles again in a couple years. Chicago? Cup winner, sat watching the TV hoping for Dallas to lose to put them in the playoffs the following year. Two first round losses. Looking good this year... Likely cap trouble again next year. Boston? Cup winner, lost in the first round last year. Looking good... maybe some cap trouble next year. LA? Cup winner, had to fight down to the wire to make the playoffs, likely the same this year. About $15M to fill almost half their roster next year... Anaheim? Doing great this year after plenty of struggles since their Cup win. Big commitments to their stars likely to create some cap issues down the road... Anyone else... Pretty much all that separates us from any of them is they have young stars while ours are aging. Most of them were irrelevent not long ago, and will likely end up back there before too long. Come back when their stars are aging and see how much better they do than Holland. I bet none of them do half so well. What Holland has already done proves that he's a great GM. He's had some luck, and a great staff to work with, but he's still been great. No matter how successfully we make it through our current transition or the next. the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation. Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player. he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07 these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves. 2 Nightfall and Nev reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilmrt 636 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation. Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player. he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07 these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves These were all moves while Scotty was right there beside Kenny. Come on, it is weird, isn't it? 2 Hockeymom1960 and Serratoni reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 These were all moves while Scotty was right there beside Kenny. Come on, it is weird, isn't it? perfect example of what i'm talking about. 2 Din758 and Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation. Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player. he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07 these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves. Stuart was never our #2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 Stuart was never our #2 matter of opinion, but he was definitely one of our most valuable dman when rafalski's play started to deteriorate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
up2here 41 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 If he were to sign here, would he even play with Datsyuk? by the time he gets up here, Dats will be a year or two away from retirement (say it ain't so!) but he is closer to the end of the road than the beginning. How can you even use that as an incentive? Whereas a young team like Pittsburgh will have all of those same players when he comes up. We don't have young superstars like that. I assume youre talking about Dekeyser. Its been mentioned here that the rumours are that he has been promised an NHL job right away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlashyG 1,799 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 These were all moves while Scotty was right there beside Kenny. Come on, it is weird, isn't it? Bowman was a terrible GM, he is the best coach in the history of the game but one of the worst GM's ever. He actually attempted to trade Yzerman for Yashin but thankfully Holland and Co. killed that. Besides Scotty was kept on as an adviser to the coach, he had no say on the general managing of the team. 1 evilmrt reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilmrt 636 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 Yeah, the Yzerman thing....ugh....okay, I cannot argue with that. Bowman was a terrible GM, he is the best coach in the history of the game but one of the worst GM's ever. He actually attempted to trade Yzerman for Yashin but thankfully Holland and Co. killed that. Besides Scotty was kept on as an adviser to the coach, he had no say on the general managing of the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) Exactly the reason, why some people (like me) would love to see this team being sellers at the tradedeadline. The good thing about selling guys as well is the teams buying want roster players to add depth, and while not all of us like the guys and see their value, guys like White, Quincey, Cleary etc could fit in with other teams plans. If it were up to me, my trading block would include: Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton, White, Quincey, Samuelsson, Huskins, Coliacovo and Mursak and I'd accept draft picks. Stock pile the picks and hope for the best, cause our trading partners still aren't lining up by the looks of it. Edited March 28, 2013 by Z Winged Dangler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropkickshanahans 463 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 Proabably has to do with the fact that not all 30 teams were interested as much in those other players that have signed. Or it could be this is the only person this board is focused on after being hyped for months by LeftWinger. I also find it funny that it's now considered a circus act to take a couple days to think about where you want to play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beachwing 426 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 cause our trading partners still aren't lining up by the looks of it. This is what a lot of fans are understating. Wings have been hated and envied for 25 years because their success....ONLY team to pull off this type of success and imo, no GM is in a hurry to help them back to top of the mountain for another 20 years. 1 Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 According to Dekeyser's agent, a decision is likely tonight, at the latest tomorrow. If (hopefully when) the Wings sign him, I think this will open up the flood doors in the trade department as it will put more of our defensemen in play. Going to be an interesting couple of days starting real soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robb himself 143 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 According to @nugegood (Tommy Stites) "Danny DeKeyser will sign with the Detroit #RedWings tonight around 7:30. This is from a WMU source" Sounding more and more likely that he will sign with us. 5 Euro_Twins, Wingsfan72, Hockeymom1960 and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyquistfan14 489 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 According to @nugegood (Tommy Stites) "Danny DeKeyser will sign with the Detroit #RedWings tonight around 7:30. This is from a WMU source" Sounding more and more likely that he will sign with us. Please tell me this is true! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingsfan72 198 Report post Posted March 28, 2013 According to @nugegood (Tommy Stites) "Danny DeKeyser will sign with the Detroit #RedWings tonight around 7:30. This is from a WMU source" Sounding more and more likely that he will sign with us. Aww yiss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
