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Wings Make Offer to Danny D!


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#221 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:39 AM

Till it isn't official I a m not getting my hopes up, I could easily be another Suter situation, so just wait. Sure the cards are very good this time, but the guy still has to sign so no point in getting excited currently..


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#222 Esquire

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:57 AM

I'd like to see the Wings to get Dekeyser, only to flip him in the offseason.

 

lolz


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#223 Nightfall

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:37 AM

I don't buy the "making the team worse" argument, nor the cap argument. First of all, especially last year, when all was said and done, we still had $4.5 million in cap space. But even in years before last, guys that likely would've been moved to make a trade happen would have balanced out most of the cap issues. And while I don't think you could say that making a trade that ships out talent for talent would make the team better immediately, I don't think it'd make them so much worse either. It probably would have been even then, with a stronger defense but somewhat weaker offense. But it'd make the blow of losing your top three defensemen over the course of one year much easier to swallow. Again, I'm not talking about just replacing Lidstrom, but also Rafalski and Stuart. Holland didn't even find a way to bring in a Stuart-level guy. I don't wholly disagree with some of what you're saying, and I'm not trying to suggest that perfection is the only option, but I absolutely am saying that if Holland was a truly great cap-era GM, I don't think he would've had the number and the magnitude of gaffs that he's had since really running up against the cap crunch. And don't take it from me, take it from him! He blatantly admitted that he was shocked and unprepared for what happened in the off-season in the summer of 2009. It's been much of the same drill each off-season since then, only getting worse in some ways as the seasons go by.

 

And to be clear, I'm fine with having a year or two or even more of struggle to get things right. If we have to field a weaker team in order to sign better guys for awhile as we sort out this transition and evolve, so be it. What bothers me most about Holland's approach is that he's seemed content to change as little as possible because the team with the core of Dats, Z and Lidstrom was generally going to be good enough to at least make the playoffs. But now Lidstrom's gone, and while the core is still strong, it hardly makes the team infallible. If heaven forbid we do lose Datsyuk in 15 months, and three months later we start the season having not addressed yet another hole in any meaningful way, will it still be excusable?

 

Pittsburgh landed Iginla tonight. Doesn't guarantee them anything, but we weren't even on Iginla's list according to most. No matter what you think of the deal or the other teams or how it might play out, that we weren't even a real part of the conversation is very telling of the status of our team. And again, I'd be fine with that status if it actually felt like we were building to something. But it doesn't, at all. We're just getting old and tired. As opposed to paying dues, we're just eeking by. 

 

In the new cap era, the playoffs are not guaranteed to any team.  It will come down less to money and more to chemistry.  I too worry about this team when Dats and Z are gone, as any team should be worried when they lose their horses.  If Chicago lost Toews and Kane, they would be screwed.  If Pittsburgh lost Malkin and Crosby, they would also be screwed.  The premier players are just that, premier players.

 

As for Iginla, I am glad we didn't get him as a rental.  We have given up enough picks in the last 20 years, and as has been said before, you have to build up your team through the draft now.  If there is anything the Wings have been good with, it is has been getting good deals with late round picks.


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#224 VM1138

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:23 AM

The Wings can only build depth through the draft.  We don't draft high enough to get superstars reliably, so we still need to trade for our team to have any bite to it.


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#225 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:33 AM

The Wings can only build depth through the draft.  We don't draft high enough to get superstars reliably, so we still need to trade for our team to have any bite to it.

 

Exactly the reason, why some people (like me) would love to see this team being sellers at the tradedeadline.


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#226 HockeytownRules19

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:35 AM

Andrew Walker @fan960walker 6m

Breaking: #Flames GM Jay Feaster along with Hartley -enroute today to meet with highly sought after NCAA free agent Dan Dekeyser (West Mich)

 

I don't think Danny is stupid enough to sign with Calgary after what just happened lol



#227 frankgrimes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:37 AM

Andrew Walker @fan960walker 6m

Breaking: #Flames GM Jay Feaster along with Hartley -enroute today to meet with highly sought after NCAA free agent Dan Dekeyser (West Mich)

 

I don't think Danny is stupid enough to sign with Calgary after what just happened lol

 

There are only two competitors which I really "fear" the Bolts because of Stevie Y and of course the Predators, having the chance to learn from Weber shouldn't be underestimated although I hate this guy.


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#228 Buppy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

I don't buy the "making the team worse" argument, nor the cap argument. First of all, especially last year, when all was said and done, we still had $4.5 million in cap space. But even in years before last, guys that likely would've been moved to make a trade happen would have balanced out most of the cap issues. And while I don't think you could say that making a trade that ships out talent for talent would make the team better immediately, I don't think it'd make them so much worse either. It probably would have been even then, with a stronger defense but somewhat weaker offense. But it'd make the blow of losing your top three defensemen over the course of one year much easier to swallow. Again, I'm not talking about just replacing Lidstrom, but also Rafalski and Stuart. Holland didn't even find a way to bring in a Stuart-level guy. I don't wholly disagree with some of what you're saying, and I'm not trying to suggest that perfection is the only option, but I absolutely am saying that if Holland was a truly great cap-era GM, I don't think he would've had the number and the magnitude of gaffs that he's had since really running up against the cap crunch. And don't take it from me, take it from him! He blatantly admitted that he was shocked and unprepared for what happened in the off-season in the summer of 2009. It's been much of the same drill each off-season since then, only getting worse in some ways as the seasons go by.

 

And to be clear, I'm fine with having a year or two or even more of struggle to get things right. If we have to field a weaker team in order to sign better guys for awhile as we sort out this transition and evolve, so be it. What bothers me most about Holland's approach is that he's seemed content to change as little as possible because the team with the core of Dats, Z and Lidstrom was generally going to be good enough to at least make the playoffs. But now Lidstrom's gone, and while the core is still strong, it hardly makes the team infallible. If heaven forbid we do lose Datsyuk in 15 months, and three months later we start the season having not addressed yet another hole in any meaningful way, will it still be excusable?

 

Pittsburgh landed Iginla tonight. Doesn't guarantee them anything, but we weren't even on Iginla's list according to most. No matter what you think of the deal or the other teams or how it might play out, that we weren't even a real part of the conversation is very telling of the status of our team. And again, I'd be fine with that status if it actually felt like we were building to something. But it doesn't, at all. We're just getting old and tired. As opposed to paying dues, we're just eeking by. 

 

You're very obviously nowhere close to "fine" with struggling.

 

Being a weaker team is typically how you land those better players. Getting superstars to build around typically requires being very bad for a time. It's not that Holland is content or doesn't want to change anything. It's that you can't spin straw into gold. He could spin some straw into some different straw, and maybe that would make you happy as it would at least be something to talk about, but it wouldn't make any real difference.

 

Yes, when Rafalski retired we got some cap space, after having none for two years. In hindsight, Holland might have given up a pick for a chance to talk to Wisniewski or Ehrhoff. Would either really make us any better? Make the future any brighter? Knowing he wouldn't get Suter, he probably goes harder after other options. Would Wideman or Carle really make that much difference?

 

To build, you need something to build on. The struggles we're having now and will likely have in the near future is how we'll find that foundation.



#229 Nightfall

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

Exactly the reason, why some people (like me) would love to see this team being sellers at the tradedeadline.

 

Frank, you and I have had our differences, but I agree with you.

 

The Wings playoff streak is nice, but I would rather see the Wings really compete every few years than just make the playoffs and die in the first or second round every year.  The problem is that Wings fans as a whole would hate to see them tank for 2-3 years just to rebuild.


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#230 VM1138

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:00 AM

I imagine Pittsburgh might be a destination for him.  They're making big splashes to bolster their offense, and they need more defensive depth, don't they?  Playing with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Iginla for years might be a stronger draw than just Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

 

And on the note about off-season trades, last year we can't really blame Holland.  There just wasn't much to pick from.  But he has been too hesitant to trade pieces.  Our prospects are all solid and will be great solid players, but he should have been more aggressive pursuing options for top-end talent.  We talk about how it's so unlikely that big players move these days, but the fact is, they do.  Not as much as they used to, but they do get moved.

 

In the old days Holland would find these out of nowhere trades.  Here's what happened:

 

In 2010, we had a good team, but the hockey gods destroyed our team health and we couldn't do anything.  So Holland figured: We didn't get to see our team in action, let's give them another chance.  Fair enough.

 

In 2011, we were decimated by injuries to key players once more, and maybe he still wanted to get healthy and give them a shot.  

 

But sometime between early 2012 and 2013, it's like he stopped trying.  We can't use the "we like our team when they get healthy" as an excuse anymore, I don't think.  He brought in Quincey as a desperation move, but he wouldn't have been forced to do that had be moved earlier for a defenseman.  Complacency set in among the players, and Holland settled into a "wait and see" approach which doesn't satisfy anyone.  That is the history of the Wings since 2010 and it's frustrating.  Losing in '99, '00 and '01 pushed him into high gear to win the Cup.  Losing in '09, '10, '11, and '12 doesn't seem to have lit a fire under him.  And it's not the cap.  He's good enough at maneuvering and finding talent.  He doesn't need to go for the obvious choices, but I find it hard to believe no one wanted to trade with us for four years, except for Quincey.  

 

We can talk about how people overpay for players, but the reality is if you need that player, you pay whatever you need to.  He never seriously tried to repair the defense since Rafalski left, and Smith was still years away and Kindl was underperforming.  I'm not a Holland basher, and I have faith in him, but fans frustrations aren't entirely unfounded.


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#231 stevie for president

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but why is everyone calling for us to be sellers and rebuild?


You have Paterson and Mrazek as two big time goalie prospects with a youngish starter in Howard.
 

If Dekeyser signs in Detroit, they'll have Smith, Kindl, Sproul, Backman, Ouellet, and Dekeyser all just hitting or in the middle of their prime  in 4-5 years (not to mention Kronwall, Ericsson, and Quincey as potentially very good veterans at that point).

 

On offense, we have prospects who should be major contributors in 4-5 years like Andersson, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Frk, Jurco, Nyquist, Tatar, and possibly McKee if he switches to LW like I've seen people on here say he should.  This is in addition to Zetterberg, Helm, Brunner, Abdelkader, and Emmerton.  Datsyuk and Franzen could potentially be here in 5 years, but I doubt it.

Anyway, the point of this post is to say that assuming the Red Wings get 0 prospects, 0 big trades, 0 superstar UFAs, and their current prospects develop as projected, the Red Wings will still be very good (especially defensively and in net). The Wings should be buyers, not sellers. They should go for Dekeyser and a top 6 winger for the Datsyuk-Franzen line. If they get healthy and 1 big forward, they'll be in the conversation with Anaheim and Chicago. We don't need a rebuild; we already have one of the best farm systems in the league today.



#232 Dominator2005

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan… it’s taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where he’s going to play…


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#233 dirtydangles

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:17 AM

JESUS JUST SIGN DANNY! 


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#234 sputman

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:27 AM

For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan… it’s taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where he’s going to play…

 

I'm sure he's already made up his mind. He's had a long time to think about this, it's not like he's just started to think about this last weekend. It's a 23 year old kid deciding where to buy his first house and potentially settle in to adulthood. Nobody's going to swoop in and hard-sell him away from his plan. It's like others have said, he's just enjoying the star treatment and why not? He's been passed over in drafts and this must be an exciting time.


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#235 HockeytownRules19

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

I'm sure he's already made up his mind. He's had a long time to think about this, it's not like he's just started to think about this last weekend. It's a 23 year old kid deciding where to buy his first house and potentially settle in to adulthood. Nobody's going to swoop in and hard-sell him away from his plan. It's like others have said, he's just enjoying the star treatment and why not? He's been passed over in drafts and this must be an exciting time.

 

I agree completely



#236 dirtydangles

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:42 AM

probably waiting until the iginla stuff blows over a bit.


Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#237 mmamolo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

Frank, you and I have had our differences, but I agree with you.

 

The Wings playoff streak is nice, but I would rather see the Wings really compete every few years than just make the playoffs and die in the first or second round every year.  The problem is that Wings fans as a whole would hate to see them tank for 2-3 years just to rebuild.

 

I don't know that too many ppl are screaming for a complete rebuild and I don't know that even what you're saying (tanking for 2-3 yrs) is even necessary.  To me, the Wings aren't legi contenders right now so things like defensive depth going into the playoffs shouldn't be a huge factor for them.  Personally, I would like to see them makes some trades of depth players (i.e. White, Colo, Huskins, and even maybe some of the depth forwards) that way they get assets (draft picks) in return (since at the deadline these depth players are more valuable) plus it frees up roster flexibility this summer. 

 

I think we are used to the Wings being contenders (whether they truly were in previous years or not, the mind set was that they were) so we're not used to moving roster players.  So now, if the Wings do move roster players it implies tanking/rebuilding.  But so long as you core is in tact I wouldnt consider it tanking. 


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#238 evilmrt

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

For a young player who is described as a diehard red wings fan its taking WAYYYYY too much time to decide where hes going to play


Yep, I don't get the circus act when the other few NCAA players that were sought after signed quietly on Monday or Tuesday.

#239 ogreslayer

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

Yep, I don't get the circus act when the other few NCAA players that were sought after signed quietly on Monday or Tuesday.

 

Proabably has to do with the fact that not all 30 teams were interested as much in those other players that have signed.



#240 AtomicPunk

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:55 AM

If he were to sign here, would he even play with Datsyuk? by the time he gets up here, Dats will be a year or two away from retirement (say it ain't so!) but he is closer to the end of the road than the beginning. How can you even use that as an incentive? Whereas a young team like Pittsburgh will have all of those same players when he comes up. We don't have young superstars like that.


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