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Wings Make Offer to Danny D!


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#281 martinezsvsu

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

once again, some ppl are saying that he picked the wings but nothing is confirmed yet...



#282 Serratoni

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

Question. I'm as eager to hear where Dekeyser signs as everyone else. That being said, why was he undrafted?



#283 gcom007

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

In the new cap era, the playoffs are not guaranteed to any team.  It will come down less to money and more to chemistry.  I too worry about this team when Dats and Z are gone, as any team should be worried when they lose their horses.  If Chicago lost Toews and Kane, they would be screwed.  If Pittsburgh lost Malkin and Crosby, they would also be screwed.  The premier players are just that, premier players.

 

As for Iginla, I am glad we didn't get him as a rental.  We have given up enough picks in the last 20 years, and as has been said before, you have to build up your team through the draft now.  If there is anything the Wings have been good with, it is has been getting good deals with late round picks.

 

 

Obviously, but that still doesn't really address my point. My point is we've seen three very important part of our team walk away over the course of a year and Holland has been unable to address even the smallest hole left by Stuart in a meaningful way. If we were to lose Datsyuk and Holland had this team heading into the following season with no meaningful addition for that loss, it'd be the fourth big hole in a short amount of time that wasn't addressed in a meaningful way. I am well aware of the realities of the cap era, but at what point would it be reasonable to suggest that this is a pattern, and a problematic one at that?

 

Again, I'm not expecting the moon and stars here, not by a long shot. I know it's hard for many people to not turn things into black and white issues, but we dropped three of our four top defensemen in the course of one years time, including one who easily resides in the class of all-time great players at any position, and certainly among the handful of names one could drop for best defensemen in history. Is it really so unreasonable to think Holland couldn't have found a way to bring in a guy at least on the same level of quality as Stuart? I really don't think so, and that's what worries me, because we haven't even seen that, despite Holland saying numerous times that he'd like to strengthen things up.

 

What I find really interesting about what some Holland-defenders say is that they almost seem to be suggesting at times that Holland's lack of moves is some sort of strategy, when in reality he's said himself that he wanted to make moves that he's consistently been unable to accomplish. And to be clear, I really don't care that we didn't get Parise and Suter, and to be frank, in some ways I think it might've been a blessing in disguise. I like Parise, but part of me worried that Suter would struggle here under the pressure. I'm not upset about it, and I don't blame Holland for it directly and I never have. What I blame Holland for is seemingly not knowing what he really wants to do with this team. He says he wants to bring in talent, but doesn't want to pay the price to get it. He talks about the importance of the draft, but won't play the sellers role to bring in drafts and let the team sink for a year or two to actually get a descent position in the draft. Again, he just seems content to float in the middle.

 

We're far, far less likely to draft stars you can build your team around if we just keep floating in the middle. So if we're also unable to trade our assets for impact players or let go of home-grown talent to sign impact players, where does that leave us? What is there to build on? Sure, teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh will have their cap struggles and they'll have off years because of it, but they're not standing pat. They're going for it. That gives them quite an advantage that we used to have in that players who want to win want to play there. My point of bringing up Iginla wasn't to cry "boo hoo" because we didn't get him; I didn't expect to at all. My point was we weren't even on the list. If Iginla's going to get traded and he's got a list of 3-4 teams he'll waive his NTC for, and you're one of those teams, you have leverage. You're going to attract better talent and you're going to get a better deal than a lesser team. Like it or not, as important as the draft is, unless Holland goes into full-blown rebuild mode, selling off assets for picks, allowing the team to sink in the standings knowing you'll be rewarded come draft time, you've got to be able to bring in talent through trade or free agency. You're highly unlikely to be able to build a strong team around the picks you're going to get when you consistently fall in the middle to bottom end of the draft. Holland hasn't seemed to figure that out.

 

Just look at Hossa situation again and consider that instead of having a legitimate star with amazing work ethic and outstanding two-way play for a great cap hit, you have a one-dimensional Franzen. Actually, maybe worse, we probably could have had Hossa and Franzen if he would've given up Flip, which would've yielded a solid return on the market. At the time he was still primarily viewed as a center...on a team that already had two of the best centers in the game. What ended up happening is he consistently failed to meet expectations sans one year, and ultimately ended up on the Wing anyways. Is there anyone (besides that one guy here who's obsessed with Flip) that would really want Flip over Hossa? Hossa is the kind of talent that attracts talent, makes the guys around him better, and sets a great example for young kids coming up with his hustle and strong two-way play. He was the real deal, not "potential." But end of the day, the decision ultimately had to do with the fact that Franzen and Flip and Hudler had been around longer. They were more a part of the "family."

 

And don't cry "couldn't fit it under the cap!" It's tired and just not true. $3 million of Hossa's $5 million would be offset by sending Flip out for picks, and you pass on the inconsistent players like Hudler and Sammy by default, and end up with the guys you ended up with anyways because Hudler and Sammy went looking for a payday. We'd be tight for one year before things would open up again, and we'd come out of it with Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa as the cornerstones of this team, and in such a case, I think Lidstrom would still be around too, in all honesty. But instead, cue Holland's, "I was shocked and unprepared for what happened, but we'll explore other options" spiel to the press. What kills me is that some defenders have said that no one could've predicted that all our guys would walk. Umm, well, then what is Holland's job again? If he didn't know that he was that far off with the guys that left, he wasn't doing his job.

 

Rafalski retires. We have cap space. We have assets. We have enough prospects to not be hoarding. Holland says he needs to replace Rafalski. He didn't say, "welp, we couldn't fit anything under the cap and it's the cap era and we're just happy to make the playoffs." He said, "we need to replace Rafalski." Nothing happened. Ditto for Lidstrom and Stuart, only far more pressing, and at this point mostly out of his control given the hand he dealt himself in seasons past. Floating down the middle is a waste of time. He needs to decide if he's going to really blow this team up and stock up the farm through the draft or he needs to figure out how to bring in high-level talent again. But in reality, he'll probably end up giving Flip $5 million a year this summer and I'll look at Hossa's cap hit again and hang my head.


-Elliot


#284 evilzyme

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:03 PM

Question. I'm as eager to hear where Dekeyser signs as everyone else. That being said, why was he undrafted?

 

His skating was horribad previously, and he didn't have that great of size. He put on more weight over the years and this previous off-season is where his skating REALLY started to shine. He basically just developed slower like many NCAA players and is just now hitting stride (which isn't weird for a defensive player).


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'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
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I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#285 Serratoni

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

His skating was horribad previously, and he didn't have that great of size. He put on more weight over the years and this previous off-season is where his skating REALLY started to shine. He basically just developed slower like many NCAA players and is just now hitting stride (which isn't weird for a defensive player).

Thanks for the quick response! :D



#286 HockeytownRules19

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:20 PM

Not likely to be a decision until tomorrow by college UFA D Dan DeKeyser.



#287 beachwing

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:21 PM

Where is Leftwinger with the inside 'scoops'!

#288 gcom007

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:30 PM

the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation.

 

Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up

he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player.

he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that

he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07

 

these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves.

 

1) I was always an Osgood supporter and took plenty of crap for being one since the day he returned. It was a great use of cap money and Osgood was still plenty capable especially when it counted most, and he proved that in 2008 and 2009. I also have said numerous times in the past that Holland has a better handle on the goaltending situation than Babcock. I think Babcock is a great coach in most ways, but to this day I think he mismanages his goalies. Holland did a good job of stepping in on that when needed and has always brought in solid guys at great prices.

 

2) I had absolutely no issue whatsoever with the Datsyuk signing. Look it up. I was thrilled. I thought most were crazy who were against it. But to be fair, I also happened to know a few people who knew a good deal more about how VERY injured he was in the previous couple playoff runs before the signing, and his weaker performance in those years was what most fans were complaining about at the time. It never had to factor into my opinion, though I'm not sure it would've changed it had I not known that.

 

3 and 4) Those were great moves. Those were the kind of moves Holland should have been making the last 3-4 years if he didn't want to enter a rebuilding phase. Holland used to be bold, and while it didn't always pay off, it kept us in an elite status. If Holland had just rolled over and died when Schneider left and skipped out on making the move for Stuart, like he's basically done the last few years, we likely wouldn't have won the Cup in '08. And I doubt Hossa would have been calling Holland, not Holland calling Hossa, Hossa, literally, on the phone with his agent, taking over the situation himself, calling Holland and working out a deal. And we likely wouldn't have then made it to the Cup in '09. And so on and so forth.

 

The real shame is, we very likely could've kept going things rolling had Holland made better moves starting in 2009. Like I said before, if you want to be elite in this day and age, half the battle is going to be keeping up appearances so when you have opportunities to add stars through trades or free agency, you have as much leverage as possible. Holland squandered our leverage through inaction. And if anyone thinks that we've been drafting our way towards ensuring that the next generation of this team is a playoff team, Ken Holland has a bridge to sell you.

 

I'm not going to complain about Holland Pre-2009. The problems I saw started in 2009 and yes, they largely stem from the reality of the cap finally hitting, but the choices he made, and he's had plenty of choices, have not been good choices in my mind. That's my problem with him. Granted, I could argue against anyone complaining about him not signing Parise, Suter, DeKeyser (if we don't get him) or trading for Iginla too. What most Holland bashers ignore, and it's why I got involved on the matter in this thread earlier, is that the problem isn't what's been happening the last 3-4 months, it's what hasn't happened for the last 3-4 years.


Edited by gcom007, 28 March 2013 - 07:30 PM.

-Elliot


#289 HockeytownRules19

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

Told by agent Don Meehan, that Dan DeKeyser will make a decision on a team before noon tomorrow.



#290 gcom007

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:41 PM

More on topic, is anyone else a little concerned that he hasn't made a decision yet? At least so far as his chances of landing here are concerned? It just seems to me that given all that's been said about his view of the Wings, if this were going to happen, it likely wouldn't be dragging on like this. After all, whether he deserves it or whether he'll be truly up to the task or not, we're in a position to offer him an NHL role on a playoff team right now. I have a hard time thinking this would really be about playing time at this point. Sure, he'd get more on a truly bad team, but who wants to be on a truly bad team if even a descent version of the team you've loved all your life is interested in you and willing to offer you a spot in the lineup? I don't know, and I don't know much about DeKeyser in general, but the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that I think he'll sign elsewhere. As said, I don't know enough about what this guy would be able to do at the NHL level to say whether that's a big deal or not. Even if this guy comes in a does a descent job, it'll be hard for him to live up to the unwarranted hype. If he signs, I look forward to plenty "Bench DeKeyser" threads next year. It just seems inevitable unless he comes in and just takes over, which is highly unlikely to happen.


-Elliot


#291 beachwing

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

Most likely the last of the meetings and pitches took place today and he just gonna chill for the night and enjoy the process up till tmmrrws announcement.....has to be af****** blast to be in such a position!

#292 Carman

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

Not worried at all. He has the same agent as Iginla, and you can imagine how busy he's been. Don Meehan for the curious.


Edited by Carman, 28 March 2013 - 07:50 PM.


#293 HockeytownRules19

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

Brian Hedger of NHL.com spoke to Holland about DeKeyser:

 

I also asked Holland about DeKeyser, but he wasn't tipping hand if he knows anything about decision. Made his presentation on Weds etc

 

Holland on DeKeyser: "He’s homegrown. He’s from Michigan, from suburbs of Detroit ... and we’d love to sign him." #RedWings #NHL

 

Holland on DeKeyser: Teams have made presentations. I was in there [Weds] and now we’re waiting for Dan to make a decision. It’s a process."



#294 evilzyme

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Brian Hedger of NHL.com spoke to Holland about DeKeyser:

 

I also asked Holland about DeKeyser, but he wasn't tipping hand if he knows anything about decision. Made his presentation on Weds etc

 

Holland on DeKeyser: "He’s homegrown. He’s from Michigan, from suburbs of Detroit ... and we’d love to sign him." #RedWings #NHL

 

Holland on DeKeyser: Teams have made presentations. I was in there [Weds] and now we’re waiting for Dan to make a decision. It’s a process."

 

It really is so bittersweet how secret Holland is. I love the fact that you never know what the Wings are doing, and he holds his cards close to himself. On the other side of the spectrum, when asked questions, he seriously gives you NOTHING. I would HATE to play poker against that man. You know, with how much I emphasize my words, my nickname around here should be Murph.


Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#295 matt198913

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:14 PM

They could have the best young talent in the league at D. Smith, Kindl, Lashoff, Dekeyser, Sproul, Oulette, and I'd even throw Almqvuist in there.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#296 Carman

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

They could have the best young talent in the league at D. Smith, Kindl, Lashoff, Dekeyser, Sproul, Oulette, and I'd even throw Almqvuist in there.

 

Forgetting Backman, and Jensen=P



#297 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

This process is eerily similar to the Suter sweepstakes.  First, he has a day set for the decision.  Then, it leaks (although unreliably) that he's picked Detroit.  Then, it gets postponed to the next day.  We all wake up and read that he signed with someone else.


Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 28 March 2013 - 08:17 PM.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#298 kipwinger

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:20 PM

At least the big Czech kid had the courtesy to sign with Tampa and get it over with.  This Dekeyser guy is a real prima donna.  No thanks.  lol. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#299 Serratoni

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:25 PM

I hope I'm wrong, but the longer this goes on, I think it becomes less likely that he signs with Detroit. Another team may have offered him something he is having a hard time refusing. I suspect he is debating between what his head and his heart want.



#300 Carman

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

I hope I'm wrong, but the longer this goes on, I think it becomes less likely that he signs with Detroit. Another team may have offered him something he is having a hard time refusing. I suspect he is debating between what his head and his heart want.

Or his agent wants him to hold off until the Iginla coverage dies down.


Edited by Carman, 28 March 2013 - 08:27 PM.






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