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Guy Boucher fired


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#21 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

I wonder if Lindy Ruff would to take the job if offered?

 

There is a definite connection involved here.


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#22 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

There is a definite connection involved here.

 

With Ruff being let go not long ago and now this spot opening up is it too soon for Ruff? Maybe maybe not.

 

It's not like Ruff had a lot of talent to work with in Buffalo as say IF he takes the job in Tampa where there is talent.



#23 Crymson

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

 
He did trade away Kyle Quincey for a first round pick.  One of the best swindles in recent memory.

 

He played intermediary, effectively trading Steve Downie for a 1st.

 

Also, he put together Canada for the 2010 Olympics, coming off the disastrous team they assembled for the 2006 games.

 

Anyone can look and see that the 2006 Canadian team was terribly selected. It is not difficult to put together an excellent roster of Canadian players; Yzerman simply took the best scoring talent available and used it. Brian Burke, meanwhile, put together an American roster in 2010 that very nearly won the gold despite Canada having far more hockey talent than the USA does. Does this mean to you that he is a better NHL GM than Yzerman?

 

I still wish he was in Detroit and ready to take over Holland's duties.

 

I think that the people who consider him some sort of savior are deluding themselves. Holland is still his better at this stage.


Edited by Crymson, 24 March 2013 - 02:46 PM.


#24 Playmaker

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

So if the Wings sign DeKeyser, in addition to finding Brunner, essentially 2 additions that cost the Wings nothing to get a top 6 forward and a possible future top 4 dman with small cap hits, does Holland still "suck"?

 

Is it possible the Wings had DeKeyser in mind when Lidstrom left and that is why they didn't make any big moves to replace him?  For all the complaining, it appears we have a pretty solid blue line for years to come. 

 

Really, I don't know what more Holland can do to please people.


Edited by Playmaker, 24 March 2013 - 06:17 PM.


#25 darkmanx

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:32 PM

So if the Wings sign DeKeyser, in addition to finding Brunner, essentially 2 additions that cost the Wings nothing to get a top 6 forward and a possible future top 4 dman with small cap hits, does Holland still "suck"?

 

Is it possible the Wings had DeKeyser in mind when Lidstrom left and that is why they didn't make any big moves to replace him?  For all the complaining, it appears we have a pretty solid blue line for years to come. 

 

Really, I don't know what more Holland can do to please peope.

 

I don't hate Holland, but it starts with not bringing back players that shouldn't be here. Such as Sammy, Cleary (next year), Bertuzzi, Qunicey etc.

 

He needs to let the kids play, that's why I have a little beef with Holland, it's time to move on from the vets. I mean Sammy has played a total of what ? 3 games this year ?



#26 irishock

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

Yzerman should never be given the GM spot of this team


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#27 frankgrimes

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:29 PM

He played intermediary, effectively trading Steve Downie for a 1st.

 

 

Anyone can look and see that the 2006 Canadian team was terribly selected. It is not difficult to put together an excellent roster of Canadian players; Yzerman simply took the best scoring talent available and used it. Brian Burke, meanwhile, put together an American roster in 2010 that very nearly won the gold despite Canada having far more hockey talent than the USA does. Does this mean to you that he is a better NHL GM than Yzerman?

 

 

I think that the people who consider him some sort of savior are deluding themselves. Holland is still his better at this stage.

 

'Yes, Holland is still better hard to do when someone is considered the best at his job? So Stevie learning even more from Holland wouldn't be a bad thing and whenever Hollands decides to move up in the organization as President of Hockey Operation and selects Yzerman is his successor it would be amazing.

 

Some people are way too hard on Yzerman, given the stuff he has to work with. The guy won olympic gold with team Canada IN Canada, so this means under ridiculous pressure and onlyh ad a few months to assemple his allstar team. The so called "Team America" highly depended on a hot goalie known as Ryan Miller, Canada on the other side was loaded from top to bottom, even their D-core was pretty damn impressive. Yes, everyone can select an allstar roster but forming them into a team is extremely difficult, he did succeed in that regard but sadly doesn't receive enough praise for it.

 

Yzerman should never be given the GM spot of this team

 

Yeah rather have someone, inexperienced who is calling out his own players just to justify a lockout, ridiculous....

 

To me the list is as follows

 

Chiarelli > Shero > Yzerman if Holland moves on.


Edited by frankgrimes, 24 March 2013 - 04:31 PM.

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#28 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

I don't hate Holland, but it starts with not bringing back players that shouldn't be here. Such as Sammy, Cleary (next year), Bertuzzi, Qunicey etc.

 

He needs to let the kids play, that's why I have a little beef with Holland, it's time to move on from the vets. I mean Sammy has played a total of what ? 3 games this year ?

Pretty much this. 

 

I don't hate Holland either. He's done some great things as GM, but the team has changed and he seems unwilling to work with any other model than the one he's had.  He's become like Homer or Maltby in their final seasons for me.  It's not that I don't like him, but it's starting to look like he's outlasted his usefulness and ability. 

 

Not signing Sammy, or guys like Jason Williams would be a good start.  Holland's infatuation with former Wings used to be a running joke, now it's a sad but true joke.  

 

And not letting kids rot in the minors would help too.  Smith could've been further along in his development if he had stayed with the Wings last season.  Would've been nice to get him some more minutes with Lidstrom.  And without the injuries, Lashoff likely wouldn't have played a shift this season.  



#29 frankgrimes

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

Pretty much this. 

 

I don't hate Holland either. He's done some great things as GM, but the team has changed and he seems unwilling to work with any other model than the one he's had.  He's become like Homer or Maltby in their final seasons for me.  It's not that I don't like him, but it's starting to look like he's outlasted his usefulness and ability. 

 

Not signing Sammy, or guys like Jason Williams would be a good start.  Holland's infatuation with former Wings used to be a running joke, now it's a sad but true joke.  

 

And not letting kids rot in the minors would help too.  Smith could've been further along in his development if he had stayed with the Wings last season.  Would've been nice to get him some more minutes with Lidstrom.  And without the injuries, Lashoff likely wouldn't have played a shift this season.  

 

Very well said, Holland is a genius and has done a lot for this organization, but not giving Smith the opportunity to play with an allstar top 3 defenseman was a big mistake on his part. Letting talent rot in the AHL is not the way to go forward and also not something the Detroit Red Wings can afford to do any longer, because the team isn't overloaded with star-potential.


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#30 evilmrt

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

SI.com is saying that Yzerman is to blame, not Boucher:

 

But here’s hoping he took a good long look in the mirror before he pushed him overboard, because it was Yzerman’s own failings that led Boucher out onto the plank.

 
Remember when Boucher was regarded as a genius after guiding the Lightning to a 23-point improvement back in 2010-11? He had Dwayne Roloson, doing his best Johnny Bower impression, between the pipes.
 
But there isn’t a coach in the world who looks good when his goaltending stinks. Considering the pair of Johnny Rottens he was dealt this season by Yzerman, it’s amazing Boucher was able to stay in the mix as long as he did.
 
It was Yzerman who gambled last summer that Anders Lindback, an inexperienced back-up with Nashville who had all of 38 NHL games to his credit, was ready to step into a No. 1 job with the Bolts.


#31 Playmaker

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

I don't hate Holland, but it starts with not bringing back players that shouldn't be here. Such as Sammy, Cleary (next year), Bertuzzi, Qunicey etc.

 

He needs to let the kids play, that's why I have a little beef with Holland, it's time to move on from the vets. I mean Sammy has played a total of what ? 3 games this year ?

Of course he knew Sammy would be injured the whole year?  He was brought in to be a third liner and qb the second unit of the PP.  Bertuzzi is still under contract and had a decent season last year and is not a big hit to the cap.  Wouldn't make sense to get rid of him.  Cleary is also under contract and probably not a lot of takers for a guy at his age, with bad knees and at that price. Quincey was stellar for the LAK and solid for the Avs.  A draft pick wasn't what we needed to fill the void left by Stuart and Lidstrom.  He had a rough start, but he had improved and was steady. 

 

I would love nothing more than to see the likes of Tatar and Nyquist over Cleary, Eaves, Miller, etc.  But, overall, I think Holland makes more good calls than bad.


Edited by Playmaker, 24 March 2013 - 05:17 PM.


#32 Playmaker

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:15 PM

'Yes, Holland is still better hard to do when someone is considered the best at his job? So Stevie learning even more from Holland wouldn't be a bad thing and whenever Hollands decides to move up in the organization as President of Hockey Operation and selects Yzerman is his successor it would be amazing.

 

Some people are way too hard on Yzerman, given the stuff he has to work with. The guy won olympic gold with team Canada IN Canada, so this means under ridiculous pressure and onlyh ad a few months to assemple his allstar team. The so called "Team America" highly depended on a hot goalie known as Ryan Miller, Canada on the other side was loaded from top to bottom, even their D-core was pretty damn impressive. Yes, everyone can select an allstar roster but forming them into a team is extremely difficult, he did succeed in that regard but sadly doesn't receive enough praise for it.

 

 

Yeah rather have someone, inexperienced who is calling out his own players just to justify a lockout, ridiculous....

 

To me the list is as follows

 

Chiarelli > Shero > Yzerman if Holland moves on.

I would say that unless someone else signs him first, that Jim Nill is the likely successor to Ken Holland. 



#33 FlashyG

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

I would say that unless someone else signs him first, that Jim Nill is the likely successor to Ken Holland. 

 

In all likelihood Holland will be the person hiring his own successor as he won't be fired but promoted to Jimmy D's position when he retires.

 

I agree it will probably be Jim Nill, but that will likely mean no change in the way the Wings operate. Both are former scouts and are by all indications the creators of the prospect development system that keeps kids in the minors far longer than any other franchise.



#34 kipwinger

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

What has Yzerman done as a GM that has given you the impression he would be better than Ken Holland?  Being a great player does not necessarily equal being a good GM.  TB is loaded with talent (that was already in place before he took the job) and Yzerman has yet to acquire the pieces needed for this team to take the next step.  I woudn't call his tenure a failure just yet, but I can't say I'm blown away with the job he's doing either. 

 

Thank you, finally someone else who's not mesmerized by the legacy of Stevie Y.  So far he's done nothing to show he's a good GM.  People tend to forget that long before Holland was a GM he was the head of scouting for Detroit and that has no doubt shaped how he's built his teams.  Stevie doesn't have that background, nor does he have first hand experience at any other level of management. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#35 Crymson

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:52 PM

I mean Sammy has played a total of what ? 3 games this year ?

 

Exactly how is that Holland's fault? Those were freak injuries.



And not letting kids rot in the minors would help too.  Smith could've been further along in his development if he had stayed with the Wings last season.  Would've been nice to get him some more minutes with Lidstrom.  And without the injuries, Lashoff likely wouldn't have played a shift this season.  

 

White was on the team because Lidstrom asked for a right-handed defense partner.



#36 Franzine

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:12 PM

Replace him with former NHL goaltender Brian Boucher!

 

No confusion amongst the players, who can continue addressing Coach Boucher.



#37 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:22 PM

Exactly how is that Holland's fault? Those were freak injuries.



 

White was on the team because Lidstrom asked for a right-handed defense partner.

 

Sammy was a bad signing not just because of being injured and demonstrates Hollands lack of imagination for any other type of lineup.  He prefers to go out and get a player very much like the one he lost or if possible same the exact same guy a few seasons later.  Even if he has to throw a NTC on a 35+ contract.  Like I said, he's all about patchwork to the existing model.

 

And Lidstrom has preferred right handed defensive partners for a long time.  I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said.  



#38 Crymson

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

Sammy was a bad signing not just because of being injured and demonstrates Hollands lack of imagination for any other type of lineup.  He prefers to go out and get a player very much like the one he lost or if possible same the exact same guy a few seasons later.  Even if he has to throw a NTC on a 35+ contract.  Like I said, he's all about patchwork to the existing model.

 

Holland wanted secondary scoring, and there wasn't really anyone else available. The fact that he had played in Babcock's system was also no doubt attractive. The NTC was a necessity because of the ridiculous prices being demanded. I doubt that Holland just added it for fun.

 

And Lidstrom has preferred right handed defensive partners for a long time.  I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said.  

 

Lidstrom wanted a right-handed partner, and that was White. As such, I doubt that Smith would have gotten much icetime with Lidstrom, especially with how effective the White - Lidstrom pairing was.



#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:31 PM

Holland wanted secondary scoring, and there wasn't really anyone else available. The fact that he had played in Babcock's system was also no doubt attractive. The NTC was a necessity because of the ridiculous prices being demanded. I doubt that Holland just added it for fun.

 

 

Lidstrom wanted a right-handed partner, and that was White. As such, I doubt that Smith would have gotten much icetime with Lidstrom, especially with how effective the White - Lidstrom pairing was.

I doubt he added it for fun too.  But the reality is he signed yet another former aging Wing, to boot on a 35+ contract with a NTC.  Just because Holland couldn't pull it off doesn't automatically mean no one else was available.  It means he didn't get anyone else.  That's all.

 

I didn't mean literally on the ice with Lids every minute as a partner.  It'd be crazy to expect Smith to jump up from the AHL to playing 20+ minutes a night.  I'm guessing he could've gotten PP time and some other shifts.  I was mostly referring to Smith being around Lids in the lockeroom, at practices, and being on the team if not on the ice with Lids every shift.  



#40 darkmanx

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:38 PM

Exactly how is that Holland's fault? Those were freak injuries.



 

White was on the team because Lidstrom asked for a right-handed defense partner.

 

Because Sammy sucked before they signed him, and he sucks now. He was over 35, what could he possibly have brought instead of one of the kids who doesn't get 'groin' injuries and miss the net everything they shoot. Face it, it was a terrible signing.







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