Douglas Murray to Pittsburgh, Confirmed, Awaiting full details

[Shaman 713]

I do believe that Morrow was one of their highly looked at prospects though. Penguin fans (we know they like to overrate their prospects) had him rated as one of their top, if not, top defensive prospect.

The recent moves haven't been moving fat though, that's the thing. It's been moving picks and it's probably the main thing teams are gunning for this off-season due to the deep draft class.

They are prospects and picks, which is exactly what the Wings need right now. The way the CBA is set up there is huge reward for players on ELC and 2nd contracts for teams. The wings can dump some players, get prospects and picks, and either develop them or flip them for young more NHL ready talent around the time of the draft, and have a team that like in 2008/2009 could make big moves because of a favorable cap situation. Teams that have been winning are teams that are willing to build around youth, with some vets, and are willing to part with players that are going to ask for raises above their production capacities (think like Jordan Staal, 3rd line center, with some second line upside gets 6 million, Pens flip him to Carolina for the 8th overall, and prospects)

Edited March 25, 2013 by Shaman464

[Guest irishock]

3 points in 29 games. This isn't the move that will bring Pittsburgh over the top.

[kipwinger 8,492]

3 points in 29 games. This isn't the move that will bring Pittsburgh over the top.

You're aware that he's a defensive defenseman who plays a shutdown role right? And that the Pens already score a s*** ton of goals without needing them from Doug Murray? And that they were bounced from the playoffs last year because their defense didn't actually play defense?

Who gives a damn if he ever scores a single point? Surely not the Pens.

[kipwinger 8,492]

I do believe that Morrow was one of their highly looked at prospects though. Penguin fans (we know they like to overrate their prospects) had him rated as one of their top, if not, top defensive prospect.

The recent moves haven't been moving fat though, that's the thing. It's been moving picks and it's probably the main thing teams are gunning for this off-season due to the deep draft class.

That's exactly the point I'm making, if you've got a deep talent pool of defensive prospects you can move your top rated one without causing any long term harm to your team as a whole. Clearly Shero believed that they could move Morrow and still be fine in the long run. Just because a prospect is really good doesn't mean he has more value playing for your team than he does as trade bait. Holland always views our prospects as future Red Wings, which isn't necessarily bad, but I'm arguing that a guy like Nyquist or Smith (given our prospect depth) has more value as trade bait than as a future player. Just like Morrow clearly had more value as trade bait in Shero's eyes.

[evilzyme 769]

They are prospects and picks, which is exactly what the Wings need right now. The way the CBA is set up there is huge reward for players on ELC and 2nd contracts for teams. The wings can dump some players, get prospects and picks, and either develop them or flip them for young more NHL ready talent around the time of the draft, and have a team that like in 2008/2009 could make big moves because of a favorable cap situation. Teams that have been winning are teams that are willing to build around youth, with some vets, and are willing to part with players that are going to ask for raises above their production capacities (think like Jordan Staal, 3rd line center, with some second line upside gets 6 million, Pens flip him to Carolina for the 8th overall, and prospects)

I wasn't going against the motion that we should be looking at pick returns, i'd be more than okay with that. What I was saying is that Pittsburgh gave up one of their most highly touted defensive prospects for Brendan Morrow. You were talking about not giving up your future, right? That's why I said they were kind a dealing away their future because it was a big prospect for them. When people were talking about trimming fat, I just wanted to say it wasn't trimming fat, they were trimming away good pieces of meat

[xBflinker 29]

With these prices the wings could get some good picks/prospects for White or Flip! White for a 2nd once we sign Dekeyser?! Fingers crossed!

[kipwinger 8,492]

I wasn't going against the motion that we should be looking at pick returns, i'd be more than okay with that. What I was saying is that Pittsburgh gave up one of their most highly touted defensive prospects for Brendan Morrow. You were talking about not giving up your future, right? That's why I said they were kind a dealing away their future because it was a big prospect for them. When people were talking about trimming fat, I just wanted to say it wasn't trimming fat, they were trimming away good pieces of meat

Every quality prospect is not "the future". Very few are as a matter of fact. Trading one good prospect, even their best prospect, does not hurt the long term viability of the Pens as an organization.

Edited March 25, 2013 by kipwinger

[scotzman 29]

I would rather see a GM willing to shake up a mediocre team than one who considers Quincey being healthy as a great pickup at the deadline...

Bert & Helm are not coming to save us, let alone Sammy. I'd move two or three of these 5' 10", 178 lb Europeans in a second for 2nd or 3rd line North American with a little grit. We have enough "skill" guys... time for some big bodies.

[Guest irishock]

You're aware that he's a defensive defenseman who plays a shutdown role right? And that the Pens already score a s*** ton of goals without needing them from Doug Murray? And that they were bounced from the playoffs last year because their defense didn't actually play defense?

Who gives a damn if he ever scores a single point? Surely not the Pens.

Meh, the Pens got bounced because their goalie shat the bed; their defense really wasn't even worse than Philly's. This is still an overpayment for a guy who's an expiring that you could have gotten in FA anyways.

Edited March 25, 2013 by irishock

[evilzyme 769]

Every quality prospect is not "the future". Very few are as a matter of fact. Trading one good prospect, even their best prospect, does not hurt the long term viability of the Pens as an organization.

I can completely agree with you, but in this situation, it's because the Penguins have the thick pipeline of quality defensive prospects. Many franchises don't have that luxury so for the majority, they can't just keep handing out their good prospects. I love the philosophy of building your team through the draft; it's the most efficient way to keep your team successful over-time in my opinion. Like I said though, it really depends on the pipeline and the organization. Luckily, the Penguins are in a good space right now with their roster, and they can make movements like this. I also think that continued success measures this a lot. A team like Detroit with continued success is going to continue to draft higher rounds, which means their luxury of finding a good prospect or franchise prospect is low (luckily we have great scouting and development programs that help us). I feel like i'm spewing things now, so i'll just shut up though :]

[Guest Johnz96]

Meh, the Pens got bounced because their goalie shat the bed; their defense really wasn't even worse than Philly's. This is still an overpayment for a guy who's an expiring that you could have gotten in FA anyways.

The Pens got bounced because their leaders were too busy hating their opponent to focus on trying to beat them.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Johnz96

[dropkickshanahans 463]

I agree, but I don't just mean this season. I mean in general. If you look at the Pens team, who did they develop on their own? Crosby, Fleury, Malkin, Letang, Kennedy. Those guys are all good, but they are only marginally better than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Filppula, and Kronwall...if they're better at all. However, they've gone out and acquired Neal, Kunitz, Sutter, Martin, Dupuis...and now Murray and Morrow.

I'm not saying Shero is a better GM than Holland, he doesn't draft or develop players any better than Holland does, and Holland didn't have the option of picking high for guys like Crosby or Malkin. Where Holland really misses the boat is in the trade/FA markets, where he usually misses out on higher end talent because he likes to play it safe. You don't get quality players (that you didn't develop yourself) by refusing to move good young prospects, and by refusing to pay market value. Which is why they got Neal, Sutter, Kunitz, Martin, etc. and we got Sammy, Bert, White, and Quincey.

In Kenny's defense, I think Pittsburgh has more luxury for trades since their main core of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury are still in their mid-20's.

With that said, I agreed with you before that I think the Wings are a player or two away from contending, and I think now's probably as good a time as ever to make those trades. Perhaps just one trade for Iginla will be good enough if they also sign Dekeyser to play a shutdown role.

[Hairy Lime 234]

Iginla next?

Oh well, we'll show them with our huge Mikael Samulsson acquisition. And we got the inside track on this deal!

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Looks like Pittsburgh is really pushing it this year, Murray is an absolute beast would have loved seeing him with the Wings but you have to wonder, if a 3 could have been enough?

[ben_usmc 253]

It seems like Pitt. physically is going to be dominating but slow as f***

[frankgrimes 1,836]

It seems like Pitt. physically is going to be dominating but slow as f***

Slow? Letang, Crosby, Malkin and even Neal aren't exactly slow.

Physically they still have Engelland, Big Steve MacIntyre, as their top enforcers and then a lot of gritty players and just added one in Murray.

IF they can sort out their defensive shortcomings, this team will be very dangerous.

[matt198913 932]

Pitt lost big time. Murray has been a tremendous liability for San Jose this year. 3 assists and a -8 on the year....

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Slow? Letang, Crosby, Malkin and even Neal aren't exactly slow.

Physically they still have Engelland, Big Steve MacIntyre, as their top enforcers and then a lot of gritty players and just added one in Murray.

IF they can sort out their defensive shortcomings, this team will be very dangerous.

MacIntyre has been in the AHL all year.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Murray is waaaay better than Ian White. Anyone thinking Detroit could get any kind of return on white is huffing gas. Murray went for a 2nd round pick. White might get a 4th. For that return, you hang on to White for extra depth I believe.

[Tr!PoD#19 524]

The speedy teams in the East are gonna have a field day with this guy, he can't keep up anymore. Zero footspeed.

Murray is waaaay better than Ian White. Anyone thinking Detroit could get any kind of return on white is huffing gas. Murray went for a 2nd round pick. White might get a 4th. For that return, you hang on to White for extra depth I believe.

You're comparing two completely different players. Either way, Murray has been a disaster for the last 2 years.

[Guest Crymson]

Man... really making some waves for some solid players. Please god, don't let them win the cup...

Sharks fans will tell you that Murray is by no means a solid player. They have been rooting for him to be moved all season.

[Ally 448]

Sharks fans will tell you that Murray is by no means a solid player. They have been rooting for him to be moved all season.

That's any player though. How many posts on here were dedicated to hating on Hudler but Calgary was glad to have him.

[Guest irishock]

Pittsburgh was still the Cup favorite before the trades. There's too much parity in the league for a 2002 Wings model to work any more.

[Dabura 12,206]

That's any player though. How many posts on here were dedicated to hating on Hudler but Calgary was glad to have him.

Cleary was a force to be reckoned with when he came here. Always a solid player, that Danny Cleary.

[Guest Crymson]

That's any player though. How many posts on here were dedicated to hating on Hudler but Calgary was glad to have him.

I'd say the split on Hudler here was about 50/50. The apparent opinion amongst Sharks fans is almost 100% negative. And whatever was said about Hudler, he did have offensive aptitude. Murray is not very good in any area beyond being big.