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evilzyme

Douglas Murray to Pittsburgh, Confirmed, Awaiting full details

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I'd say the split on Hudler here was about 50/50. The apparent opinion amongst Sharks fans is almost 100% negative. And whatever was said about Hudler, he did have offensive aptitude. Murray is not very good in any area beyond being big.

That's not true though is it? These guys argue that Murray is one of the top 25 defensive d-men in the league (as of last season). Their metric is based on plus/minus, blocked shots, takeaways, giveaways, PK time/game, and their quality of competition rating. Using that metric he ranks higher than Shea Weber, Johnny Boychuk, and Tom Gilbert, and just below guys like Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Tim Gleason.

It's fun to look at the list because the names included on it pretty much validate the metrics used. Girardi, McDonough, Smid, Seabrook, Beauchemin, Suter, Lidstrom. All amazing defensemen. Missing from the list...Yandle, Karlsson, Green, Chara, Letang...all offensive defensemen.

I know it's fun to say catchy little zingers like "Murray is not very good in any area beyond being big". But in reality you're wrong. Or at least these guys argue that you are. And at least they have some evidence to justify their positions beyond hyperbole.

http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/slasher98/41485/

Edited by kipwinger

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That's not true though is it? These guys argue that Murray is one of the top 25 defensive d-men in the league (as of last season). Their metric is based on plus/minus, blocked shots, takeaways, giveaways, PK time/game, and their quality of competition rating. Using that metric he ranks higher than Shea Weber, Johnny Boychuk, and Tom Gilbert, and just below guys like Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Tim Gleason.

It's fun to look at the list because the names included on it pretty much validate the metrics used. Girardi, McDonough, Smid, Seabrook, Beauchemin, Suter, Lidstrom. All amazing defensemen. Missing from the list...Yandle, Karlsson, Green, Chara, Letang...all offensive defensemen.

I know it's fun to say catchy little zingers like "Murray is not very good in any area beyond being big". But in reality you're wrong. Or at least these guys argue that you are. And at least they have some evidence to justify their positions beyond hyperbole.

http://hockeyindependent.com/blog/slasher98/41485/

Sharks fans would laugh at you if you told them that Murray was one of the top-25 defensive defensemen in the league last season, and that counts for far more than statistics from a random hockey website. These guys can argue that I'm wrong as much as they want, but the testimony of people who watch every game the Sharks play speaks far louder.

So in reality, you're wrong.

Edited by Crymson

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Sharks fans would laugh at you if you told them that Murray was one of the top-25 defensive defensemen in the league last season, and that counts for far more than statistics from a random hockey website. These guys can argue that I'm wrong as much as they want, but the testimony of people who watch every game the Sharks play speaks far louder.

So in reality, you're wrong.

Right the testimony of the fans is worth it's weight in gold, while stats play second banana...got it. Sooo, have you made any informed conclusions about the Wings based on the testimony of people who watch every game? People like Blueadams, Leftwinger, Dabura, Me, The Axe? We're all fans, we watch every game. And as you've already stated, our "testimony" speaks far louder than silly old facts like statistics.

Crymson: "Doug Murray isn't very good at anything other than being big"

Kip: "Well here's a bunch of evidence that says you're not being accurate"

Crymson: "Evidence smevidence, the opinions of the knowledgeable San Jose Sharks fan base speaks far louder"

Kip: Face palm.

Edited by kipwinger
Shaman likes this

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Right the testimony of the fans is worth it's weight in gold, while stats play second banana...got it. Sooo, have you made any informed conclusions about the Wings based on the testimony of people who watch every game? People like Blueadams, Leftwinger, Dabura, Me, The Axe? We're all fans, we watch every game. And as you've already stated, our "testimony" speaks far louder than silly old facts like statistics.

Crymson: "Doug Murray isn't very good at anything other than being big"

Kip: "Well here's a bunch of evidence that says you're not being accurate"

Crymson: "Evidence smevidence, the opinions of the knowledgeable San Jose Sharks fan base speaks far louder"

Kip: Face palm.

Hahaha, OK. So sorry, but if I need to pit the virtually unanimous online opinion of a fanbase against some random statistical system created by a bunch of random, amateur hockey analysts, I'm going to go with the former.

Add to this that nobody on this planet actually believes that Douglas Murray is top-25 as a defensive defenseman.

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Hahaha, OK. So sorry, but if I need to pit the virtually unanimous online opinion of a fanbase against some random statistical system created by a bunch of random, amateur hockey analysts, I'm going to go with the former.

Add to this that nobody on this planet actually believes that Douglas Murray is top-25 as a defensive defenseman.

Cleary that's not true. People who use evidence like blocked shots, quality of competition ratings, takeways, PK time/game, and give aways think that Doug Murray is a top 25 defensive defenseman because...drum roll please...they opinion is based on something verifiably hockey related . Apparently, the only people who don't think so are the ones that say things without substantiating them in any way, just for the sake of argument.

GoWings1905 likes this

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You have to take other team's fan boards into account. Fans are emotional and go with the good/bad at the moment of their respective team.

For example, casual readers from other sites would likely assume we hate everyone on the team besides Datsyuk, Z (most of the time) and Howard (some of the time). Obviously that isn't the case, but I don't know how much stock you can put into reactionary opinions about a player such as Murray.

kipwinger likes this

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IF they can sort out their defensive shortcomings, this team will be very dangerous.

They've only given up 9 goals in their last 9 games.

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You have to take other team's fan boards into account. Fans are emotional and go with the good/bad at the moment of their respective team.

For example, casual readers from other sites would likely assume we hate everyone on the team besides Datsyuk, Z (most of the time) and Howard (some of the time). Obviously that isn't the case, but I don't know how much stock you can put into reactionary opinions about a player such as Murray.

Sharks fans have, by and large, been rooting for GM Murray to move player Murphy for some time now. He has never been a very solid player.

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