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Douglas Murray to Pittsburgh, Confirmed, Awaiting full details


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#21 Johnz96

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

Murray is a big pylon



#22 kipwinger

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

Pittsburgh really wants to win it this year, huh? But at the same time, if they're willing to give up two 2nd round picks as well as one of their best prospects, why not do it for Iginla instead? Murray and Morrow have both been awful this season and one of both of them will need a massive turnaround in Pittsburgh for these moves to look good. 

 

Giving up a lot of future for mediocre guys. Saying that though, they're definitely looking like a contender this year. 

 

I'm getting a little irritated by this whole "giving up the future" argument.  They are absolutely loaded with defensive prospects.  Moving one out of the bunch isn't going to "mortgage the future".  They have defensive prospects like we have forward prospects, we're lousy with them.  God forbid we move one and rely on the rest for the "future". 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#23 number9

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

Quincey and Colo ARE our deadline acquistions



#24 Shaman

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

People keep saying that teams won't overpay for players like White and Flip, but Murray and Morrow are defense's exhibits A and B for why the Wings could burn some fat from the system and get a kings ransom while doing it. 


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#25 evilzyme

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:11 PM

I'm getting a little irritated by this whole "giving up the future" argument.  They are absolutely loaded with defensive prospects.  Moving one out of the bunch isn't going to "mortgage the future".  They have defensive prospects like we have forward prospects, we're lousy with them.  God forbid we move one and rely on the rest for the "future". 

 

I do believe that Morrow was one of their highly looked at prospects though. Penguin fans (we know they like to overrate their prospects) had him rated as one of their top, if not, top defensive prospect.



People keep saying that teams won't overpay for players like White and Flip, but Murray and Morrow are defense's exhibits A and B for why the Wings could burn some fat from the system and get a kings ransom while doing it. 

 

The recent moves haven't been moving fat though, that's the thing. It's been moving picks and it's probably the main thing teams are gunning for this off-season due to the deep draft class.


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#26 Shaman

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:14 PM

I do believe that Morrow was one of their highly looked at prospects though. Penguin fans (we know they like to overrate their prospects) had him rated as one of their top, if not, top defensive prospect.



 

The recent moves haven't been moving fat though, that's the thing. It's been moving picks and it's probably the main thing teams are gunning for this off-season due to the deep draft class.

They are prospects and picks, which is exactly what the Wings need right now. The way the CBA is set up there is huge reward for players on ELC and 2nd contracts for teams. The wings can dump some players, get prospects and picks, and either develop them or flip them for young more NHL ready talent around the time of the draft, and have a team that like in 2008/2009 could make big moves because of a favorable cap situation. Teams that have been winning are teams that are willing to build around youth, with some vets, and are willing to part with players that are going to ask for raises above their production capacities (think like Jordan Staal, 3rd line center, with some second line upside gets 6 million, Pens flip him to Carolina for the 8th overall, and prospects)


Edited by Shaman464, 25 March 2013 - 02:21 PM.

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Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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#27 irishock

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:17 PM

3 points in 29 games. This isn't the move that will bring Pittsburgh over the top.


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#28 kipwinger

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

3 points in 29 games. This isn't the move that will bring Pittsburgh over the top.

 

You're aware that he's a defensive defenseman who plays a shutdown role right?  And that the Pens already score a s*** ton of goals without needing them from Doug Murray?  And that they were bounced from the playoffs last year because their defense didn't actually play defense?

 

Who gives a damn if he ever scores a single point?  Surely not the Pens. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#29 kipwinger

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

I do believe that Morrow was one of their highly looked at prospects though. Penguin fans (we know they like to overrate their prospects) had him rated as one of their top, if not, top defensive prospect.



 

The recent moves haven't been moving fat though, that's the thing. It's been moving picks and it's probably the main thing teams are gunning for this off-season due to the deep draft class.

 

That's exactly the point I'm making, if you've got a deep talent pool of defensive prospects you can move your top rated one without causing any long term harm to your team as a whole.  Clearly Shero believed that they could move Morrow and still be fine in the long run.  Just because a prospect is really good doesn't mean he has more value playing for your team than he does as trade bait.  Holland always views our prospects as future Red Wings, which isn't necessarily bad, but I'm arguing that a guy like Nyquist or Smith (given our prospect depth) has more value as trade bait than as a future player.  Just like Morrow clearly had more value as trade bait in Shero's eyes. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#30 evilzyme

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:37 PM

They are prospects and picks, which is exactly what the Wings need right now. The way the CBA is set up there is huge reward for players on ELC and 2nd contracts for teams. The wings can dump some players, get prospects and picks, and either develop them or flip them for young more NHL ready talent around the time of the draft, and have a team that like in 2008/2009 could make big moves because of a favorable cap situation. Teams that have been winning are teams that are willing to build around youth, with some vets, and are willing to part with players that are going to ask for raises above their production capacities (think like Jordan Staal, 3rd line center, with some second line upside gets 6 million, Pens flip him to Carolina for the 8th overall, and prospects)

 

I wasn't going against the motion that we should be looking at pick returns, i'd be more than okay with that. What I was saying is that Pittsburgh gave up one of their most highly touted defensive prospects for Brendan Morrow. You were talking about not giving up your future, right? That's why I said they were kind a dealing away their future because it was a big prospect for them. When people were talking about trimming fat, I just wanted to say it wasn't trimming fat, they were trimming away good pieces of meat :P


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#31 xBflinker

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:42 PM

With these prices the wings could get some good picks/prospects for White or Flip!  White for a 2nd once we sign Dekeyser?! Fingers crossed!



#32 kipwinger

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

I wasn't going against the motion that we should be looking at pick returns, i'd be more than okay with that. What I was saying is that Pittsburgh gave up one of their most highly touted defensive prospects for Brendan Morrow. You were talking about not giving up your future, right? That's why I said they were kind a dealing away their future because it was a big prospect for them. When people were talking about trimming fat, I just wanted to say it wasn't trimming fat, they were trimming away good pieces of meat :P

 

Every quality prospect is not "the future".  Very few are as a matter of fact.  Trading one good prospect, even their best prospect, does not hurt the long term viability of the Pens as an organization. 


Edited by kipwinger, 25 March 2013 - 02:43 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#33 scotzman

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

I would rather see a GM willing to shake up a mediocre team than one who considers Quincey being healthy as a great pickup at the deadline...


Bert & Helm are not coming to save us, let alone Sammy. I'd move two or three of these 5' 10", 178 lb Europeans in a second for 2nd or 3rd line North American with a little grit. We have enough "skill" guys... time for some big bodies.


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#34 irishock

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

You're aware that he's a defensive defenseman who plays a shutdown role right?  And that the Pens already score a s*** ton of goals without needing them from Doug Murray?  And that they were bounced from the playoffs last year because their defense didn't actually play defense?

 

Who gives a damn if he ever scores a single point?  Surely not the Pens. 

 

Meh, the Pens got bounced because their goalie shat the bed; their defense really wasn't even worse than Philly's. This is still an overpayment for a guy who's an expiring that you could have gotten in FA anyways.


Edited by irishock, 25 March 2013 - 04:10 PM.

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#35 evilzyme

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:13 PM

Every quality prospect is not "the future".  Very few are as a matter of fact.  Trading one good prospect, even their best prospect, does not hurt the long term viability of the Pens as an organization. 

 

I can completely agree with you, but in this situation, it's because the Penguins have the thick pipeline of quality defensive prospects. Many franchises don't have that luxury so for the majority, they can't just keep handing out their good prospects. I love the philosophy of building your team through the draft; it's the most efficient way to keep your team successful over-time in my opinion. Like I said though, it really depends on the pipeline and the organization. Luckily, the Penguins are in a good space right now with their roster, and they can make movements like this. I also think that continued success measures this a lot. A team like Detroit with continued success is going to continue to draft higher rounds, which means their luxury of finding a good prospect or franchise prospect is low (luckily we have great scouting and development programs that help us). I feel like i'm spewing things now, so i'll just shut up though :] 


Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#36 Johnz96

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

Meh, the Pens got bounced because their goalie shat the bed; their defense really wasn't even worse than Philly's. This is still an overpayment for a guy who's an expiring that you could have gotten in FA anyways.

The Pens got bounced because their leaders were too busy hating their opponent to focus on trying to beat them.


Edited by Johnz96, 25 March 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#37 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:29 PM

I agree, but I don't just mean this season.  I mean in general.  If you look at the Pens team, who did they develop on their own?  Crosby, Fleury, Malkin, Letang, Kennedy.  Those guys are all good, but they are only marginally better than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Filppula, and Kronwall...if they're better at all.  However, they've gone out and acquired Neal, Kunitz, Sutter, Martin, Dupuis...and now Murray and Morrow. 

 

I'm not saying Shero is a better GM than Holland, he doesn't draft or develop players any better than Holland does, and Holland didn't have the option of picking high for guys like Crosby or Malkin.  Where Holland really misses the boat is in the trade/FA markets, where he usually misses out on higher end talent because he likes to play it safe.  You don't get quality players (that you didn't develop yourself) by refusing to move good young prospects, and by refusing to pay market value.  Which is why they got Neal, Sutter, Kunitz, Martin, etc. and we got Sammy, Bert, White, and Quincey. 

 

In Kenny's defense, I think Pittsburgh has more luxury for trades since their main core of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury are still in their mid-20's.

 

With that said, I agreed with you before that I think the Wings are a player or two away from contending, and I think now's probably as good a time as ever to make those trades. Perhaps just one trade for Iginla will be good enough if they also sign Dekeyser to play a shutdown role.



#38 Hairy Lime

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

Iginla next?

 

Oh well, we'll show them with our huge Mikael Samulsson acquisition. And we got the inside track on this deal! 



#39 frankgrimes

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:28 PM

Looks like Pittsburgh is really pushing it this year, Murray is an absolute beast would have loved seeing him with the Wings but you have to wonder, if a  3 could have been enough?


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#40 ben_usmc

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

It seems like Pitt. physically is going to be dominating but slow as f***


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