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Dreger: Wings 'very interested' in Bouwmeester *merged*


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#141 RedWingsRox

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

Now that we have DeKeyser, are we still interested in Bouwmeester?   I hope not ... I really don't like his salary and cap.  



#142 Crymson

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:17 AM

Yeah you are right Crymson.

 

My bad. You know everything.

 

I don't see how what I wrote would have suggested that I know everything. I pointed out a simple figure. In this event, I am right; he is being used as a forward at the moment, but he has played the vast, vast majority of his career as a defenseman.

 

Wanna play pick up hockey sometime?

 

Thanks, but no, and I don't see the relevance of the question.


Edited by Crymson, 30 March 2013 - 01:18 AM.


#143 Johnz96

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:31 AM

Neither. He failed to make even the top 45 in fantasy rankings, and rightfully so.

 

I'll go ahead and list 15 defensemen who are better than him (because you think so lowly of Kronwall, I'll leave him out). In no particular order:

 

Karlsson

Pietrangelo

OEL

Chara

Girardi

Staal

Letang

Suter

Weber

Edler

Shattenkirk

Keith

Burns

Subban

Markov

 

I could go on, if you want.

Lol. Kronwall is better than a lot of those guys. Burns was so good on D, they decided to move him to forward.



Fantasy rankings are a joke. He's not top 10, maybe top 15, definitely top 20.

I was almost gonna give you a like for that one. Fantasy rankings ARE a joke if you said 'maybe not top 10 but definitely top 15', I wouda




 

Yep, he has been terrible. Zero assists and a -4.

 

As for your critique on my list, I'd like for you to explain to me how Bouwmeester is better than anyone on it.

Bouwmeester isn't, Kronwall definitely is


Edited by Johnz96, 30 March 2013 - 08:43 AM.


#144 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:45 AM

I don't see how what I wrote would have suggested that I know everything. I pointed out a simple figure. In this event, I am right; he is being used as a forward at the moment, but he has played the vast, vast majority of his career as a defenseman.

 

Your d-men list was an opinion figure is what I'm referring to. Speaking of which had Burns over Kronwall?

 

Can't say your right, sorry.



#145 Johnz96

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

Further news on Bouwmeester's awful game tonight. The highlights are here. Bouwmeester figured directly into three of the four goals-against that occurred while he was on the ice.

 

Goal-against 1: Bouwmeester was directly responsible for the 2-on-1 that led to this Jackets goal, as he pinched in to pick up a puck that was coming up the boards and completely whiffed on it (despite the puck being flat on the ice).
Goal-against 2: Bouwmeester completely failed to defend Calvert, who sniped it over him and into the net.
Goal-against 3: Bouwmeester failed to pick up a man coming late on the rush to his right, and also failed to intercept the pass to that player. Goal.

 

His other stats for the game included one shot, one hit, and zero blocks, and he was not on the ice for a single one of the Flames' goals.

 

This guy's first-pairing tag is very questionable. He is most assuredly not a #1 defenseman.
 

If he was on †he Wings, a mule wouldn't be the goat on LGW anymore


Edited by Johnz96, 30 March 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#146 Crymson

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:14 AM

Your d-men list was an opinion figure is what I'm referring to. Speaking of which had Burns over Kronwall?

 

Can't say your right, sorry.

 

It was indeed an opinion figure. As for Kronwall, I noted that I deliberately did not include him. I believe that he is more valuable than some of the defensemen on that list.



#147 dirtydangles

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:22 AM

 
Yep, he has been terrible. Zero assists and a -4.
 
As for your critique on my list, I'd like for you to explain to me how Bouwmeester is better than anyone on it.

I thought it was a kronwall comparison. I think jbo is worse than all.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#148 Crymson

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

I thought it was a kronwall comparison. I think jbo is worse than all.

 

Fair enough.

 

The impression I've gotten from Flames fans is that he doesn't really play with any urgency or spirit.



#149 Carman

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

Further news on Bouwmeester's awful game tonight. The highlights are here. Bouwmeester figured directly into three of the four goals-against that occurred while he was on the ice.

 

Goal-against 1: Bouwmeester was directly responsible for the 2-on-1 that led to this Jackets goal, as he pinched in to pick up a puck that was coming up the boards and completely whiffed on it (despite the puck being flat on the ice).
Goal-against 2: Bouwmeester completely failed to defend Calvert, who sniped it over him and into the net.
Goal-against 3: Bouwmeester failed to pick up a man coming late on the rush to his right, and also failed to intercept the pass to that player. Goal.

 

His other stats for the game included one shot, one hit, and zero blocks, and he was not on the ice for a single one of the Flames' goals.

 

This guy's first-pairing tag is very questionable. He is most assuredly not a #1 defenseman.
 

 

Kronwall hurts his team just as much as Bouwmeester does, if I had the time I would find all of his uncovered offensive zone pinches, being out of position and neutral zone risks and I could make Kronwall look just as bad. Kronwall has taken the 2nd most minors in the NHL for defenseman, that's not good for a number one guy, Bouwmeester for example has taken 8 penalities while play 25 minutes a night, while Kronwall has taken 17. That's a pretty telling statistic in today's age when penalties get called because you are caught out of position.

 

But let's go over the examples you gave from last night

And on that specific play by bouwmeester on that 2 on 1, Hudler completely abandoned being the high man after Bouwmeester saw him, and already committed, and if I'm in the film room would blame him, not bouwmeester. Bouwmeester saw Hudler make his way to cover, and Hudler didn't cover after Bouwmeester already committed. Pinching isn't a bad thing, especially when you see you have a high man.

 

And you're going to blame him for taking the pass away on a 2 on 1 on the Calvert goal? What level of hockey did you play? As a defenseman on a 2 on 1, your job is to take away the pass and keep the puck carrier to an outside shot, Bouwmeester did his job, and he didn't let him get in on the goalie. I'm confused on how that's at all his fault.

 

And once again on the third goal, his forward Stempniak gave absolutely no effort on the back check, and it was a 3 on 2, if he leaves the middle of the ice Prospal has an easy path to the goal. That goal is also on Stempniak for not skating hard and taking the late man, it's not on Bouwmeester leaving the middle of the ice to take a late man.



#150 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

It was indeed an opinion figure. As for Kronwall, I noted that I deliberately did not include him. I believe that he is more valuable than some of the defensemen on that list.

 

 

Ok just making sure I'm on the same page with ya.



#151 GoWings1905

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

I like Kronwall a lot, but it is somewhat peculiar that people criticize Bouwmeester for many of the same shortcomings Kronner has displayed.

Edited by GoWings1905, 30 March 2013 - 12:38 PM.

 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#152 Crymson

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

I like Kronwall a lot, but it is somewhat peculiar that people criticize Bouwmeester for many of the same shortcomings Kronner has displayed.

 

If he has some of the same shortcomings, then he also has only a fraction of Kronwall's offensive capacity.



#153 Johnz96

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

If he has some of the same shortcomings, then he also has only a fraction of Kronwall's offensive capacity.

'He doesn't play with any urgency or spirit', Kronwall does. He doesn't hit or block shots, Kronwall does, He avoids contact, Kronwall doesn't. He never makes the playoffs, Kronwall always does



#154 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

he doesn't constantly leave his man wide open in front of the net, kronwall does.



#155 GoWings1905

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

Bouwmeester has always been reserved. I think the lack of emotion being used against him is overblown. You don't play 25 minutes per night in the NHL for years without having urgency. Nick Lidstrom avoided contact too. That's just how Bouwmeester plays the game. He's a reliable, puck-moving d-man on a bad contract. I think he's worth the risk for the right price.
 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#156 Doc Holliday

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

Kronwall hurts his team just as much as Bouwmeester does, if I had the time I would find all of his uncovered offensive zone pinches, being out of position and neutral zone risks and I could make Kronwall look just as bad. Kronwall has taken the 2nd most minors in the NHL for defenseman, that's not good for a number one guy, Bouwmeester for example has taken 8 penalities while play 25 minutes a night, while Kronwall has taken 17. That's a pretty telling statistic in today's age when penalties get called because you are caught out of position.

 

But let's go over the examples you gave from last night

And on that specific play by bouwmeester on that 2 on 1, Hudler completely abandoned being the high man after Bouwmeester saw him, and already committed, and if I'm in the film room would blame him, not bouwmeester. Bouwmeester saw Hudler make his way to cover, and Hudler didn't cover after Bouwmeester already committed. Pinching isn't a bad thing, especially when you see you have a high man.

 

And you're going to blame him for taking the pass away on a 2 on 1 on the Calvert goal? What level of hockey did you play? As a defenseman on a 2 on 1, your job is to take away the pass and keep the puck carrier to an outside shot, Bouwmeester did his job, and he didn't let him get in on the goalie. I'm confused on how that's at all his fault.

 

And once again on the third goal, his forward Stempniak gave absolutely no effort on the back check, and it was a 3 on 2, if he leaves the middle of the ice Prospal has an easy path to the goal. That goal is also on Stempniak for not skating hard and taking the late man, it's not on Bouwmeester leaving the middle of the ice to take a late man.

I wouldn't bother. I made similar observations on HF and they were ignored.

 

Simply nitpicking to lower the value of a defenseman they simply don't like.

 

Here is a better question: how many available and affordable defensemen are better than Bouwmeester. I don't really care that Karlsson and Weber are better than him. We aren't getting those kind of defensemen without drafting them or picking them up in free agency.


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#157 Crymson

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

I wouldn't bother. I made similar observations on HF and they were ignored.

 

Simply nitpicking to lower the value of a defenseman they simply don't like.

 

Oh, so that was you. Ignored? No. I disagreed and knew it would make no sense to bother. And from my end, you were pointedly explaining away his errors in such a way as to raise the value of a defenseman you like. Never mind that Flames fans also thought he played horribly.

 

Here is a better question: how many available and affordable defensemen are better than Bouwmeester. I don't really care that Karlsson and Weber are better than him. We aren't getting those kind of defensemen without drafting them or picking them up in free agency.

 

.... affordable?? That tag has no business being applied to Bouwmeester.



#158 gowings00

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

Yandle or just stay put and make a trade in the off-season. Get Jagr now though!

#159 Doc Holliday

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

Oh, so that was you. Ignored? No. I disagreed and knew it would make no sense to bother. And from my end, you were pointedly explaining away his errors in such a way as to raise the value of a defenseman you like. Never mind that Flames fans also thought he played horribly.

Explaining away? The only one you were even correct about him playing poorly was the 2 on 1, which can happen. The other two were odd man rushes with poor forward coverage.

 

And it was one game. Should we have a "Bouwmeester watch" thread so we can nitpick everything he does right and wrong?

 

For the record, I don't like or dislike the guy, but I do think he would help the team if we acquired him for a decent package.

.... affordable?? That tag has no business being applied to Bouwmeester.

We have the cap space and he is on the block. So yes, he is affordable.


Edited by Doc Holliday, 30 March 2013 - 01:38 PM.

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#160 kipwinger

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

I keep making this point and it keeps getting ignored.  If you sign Bouwmeester with that price tag, you pretty much ensure that you can't sign a high end winger as well.  We simply can't take on that much salary with the cap going down next season.  By the time J-Bo's salary is off the books, Datsyuk is back in Russia (perhaps) and every other member of this team is two years older. 

 

Bouwmeester doesn't help in the short or long run because we need defense AND a top six winger.  Signing J-Bo means you're going to get another Samuelsson type winger who's top six in theory only. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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