Lindy Ruff an option?

[Guest Crymson]

You could give Nyquist 20 min a night he is NOT NHL ready until he gains some size. I won't argue with you about Mule and Cleary, neither should be on this team.

Franzen gets a very bad rap around here, but even so, to say that he doesn't deserve to be on the team is nonsense. I do agree about Cleary, who is suddenly the hockey equivalent of a senior citizen.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Responsibility should start with Ilitch, who doesn't seem to care that much anymore.

Then it's on Holland for putting this team together.

Next, it would be Babcock. His line combos and giving players like Cleary and Miller opportunities, while Tatar is sent down for scoring, have been absurd.

I don't see Holland getting fired or Ilitch relinquishing the team. If anything, Babcock will be the one to go. That's how it usually goes in pro sports.

Judging by your tone you'd think we're in last.

It's a transition period.

There's more attractive teams than ever with the parity.

With that we will get less and less big name UFAs. Get used to it.

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

Wow just wow, lets not and say we also didn't.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Judging by your tone you'd think we're in last.

It's a transition period.

There's more attractive teams than ever with the parity.

With that we will get less and less big name UFAs. Get used to it.

So you're OK with mediocrity? You want us to become like Montreal fans, raving about past successes and always pointing to the banners each time we lose a playoff series?

I've said this a million times. If you put Hockeytown on your center ice logo, you better be a great franchise, and not one steering towards being average.

Transition period means losing someone like Lidstrom, and it's understandable. However, it shouldn't then result in making stupid acquisitions and putting together bad line combos, while keeping better players in the minors. Not much has made sense from Holland and Babcock in the last year.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

So you're OK with mediocrity? You want us to become like Montreal fans, raving about past successes and always pointing to the banners each time we lose a playoff series?

I've said this a million times. If you put Hockeytown on your center ice logo, you better be a great franchise, and not one steering towards being average.

Transition period means losing someone like Lidstrom, and it's understandable. However, it shouldn't then result in making stupid acquisitions and putting together bad line combos, while keeping better players in the minors. Not much has made sense from Holland and Babcock in the last year.

No I'd love to have a #1 team every year but I realize that is not realistic. Especially in today's capped league. This is not 10 years ago and Wings fans need to step into the current era.

Wing's management is trying to build another solid foundation without doing anything too high-risk. This way we can compete for the playoffs on an annual basis instead of making knee-jerk decisions and going for broke one year and recovering for the next few. (see Philidelphia)

Hockeytown is a mere nickname. To hold a team accountable to THAT of all things is kind of ridiculous.

[beachwing 426]

Hockeytown is a mere nickname. To hold a team accountable to THAT of all things is kind of ridiculous.

Exactly....Title Town Green Bay

[Guest Crymson]

So you're OK with mediocrity? You want us to become like Montreal fans, raving about past successes and always pointing to the banners each time we lose a playoff series?

I've said this a million times. If you put Hockeytown on your center ice logo, you better be a great franchise, and not one steering towards being average.

Transition period means losing someone like Lidstrom, and it's understandable. However, it shouldn't then result in making stupid acquisitions and putting together bad line combos, while keeping better players in the minors. Not much has made sense from Holland and Babcock in the last year.

So what's your idea? Bomb for a few seasons so we can get the best players through the draft? Do you realize that the Wings have had trouble loading with talent lately because of the lack of superstar draft picks?

I swear, some fans of this team have a horribly spoiled, entitled, "have my cake and eat it too" attitude. They expect the Cup every year, and if the team doesn't make it at least deep into the playoffs, they complain as if they are being robbed of something they deserve. It's awful that the team's long stretch of success has rendered some fans unable to appreciate that success at all.

Guess what? In the parity era, we're going to have the same set of disadvantages that the salary cap bestows upon every other team.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Crymson

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

So what's your idea? Bomb for a few seasons so we can get the best players through the draft? Do you realize that the Wings have had trouble loading with talent lately because of the lack of superstar draft picks?

I swear, some fans of this team have a horribly spoiled, entitled, "have my cake and eat it too" attitude. They expect the Cup every year, and if the team doesn't make it at least deep into the playoffs, they complain as if they are being robbed of something they deserve. It's awful that the team's long stretch of success has rendered some fans unable to appreciate that success at all.

Guess what? In the parity era, we're going to have the same set of disadvantages that the salary cap bestows upon every other team.

I thought we had a deep prospect pool, as I'm always told. Yet, those prospects are sitting in the minors. Why is Tatar sent down when worse players are in the lineup every night?

I understand things are getting tougher, but I feel like Babcock and Holland are making them even worse with terrible personnel decisions. Holland signed the wrong players in the offseason and made a dumb trade for Quincey before that. Babcock outdoes him by not playing Tatar and Nyquist and giving people like Cleary and Abdelkader too much trust.

The fanbase should have high expectations. Name me one great team in sports, with a long successful history, that doesn't have spoiled fans with high expectations. I like that about our fans. We don't like mediocrity. If someone here doesn't accept that fact, they should go join another forum, where people are routinely happy about making the playoffs once in a while.

Exactly....Title Town Green Bay

I hardly hear anyone refer to Green Bay as that. And it's not pasted at the 50 yard line like Hockeytown is.

Did anyone call Detroit Hockeytown in the 80's? Nope, and it's because they sucked.

Edited April 1, 2013 by GMRwings1983

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I thought we had a deep prospect pool, as I'm always told. Yet, those prospects are sitting in the minors. Why is Tatar sent down when worse players are in the lineup every night?

I understand things are getting tougher, but I feel like Babcock and Holland are making them even worse with terrible personnel decisions. Holland signed the wrong players in the offseason and made a dumb trade for Quincey before that. Babcock outdoes him by not playing Tatar and Nyquist and giving people like Cleary and Abdelkader too much trust.

The fanbase should have high expectations. Name me one great team in sports, with a long successful history, that doesn't have spoiled fans with high expectations. I like that about our fans. We don't like mediocrity. If someone here doesn't accept that fact, they should go join another forum, where people are routinely happy about making the playoffs once in a while.

I hardly hear anyone refer to Green Bay as that. And it's not pasted at the 50 yard line like Hockeytown is.

Did anyone call Detroit Hockeytown 80's? Nope, and it's because they sucked.

Great post. I always remember Stevie Y at his retirement ceremony saying, "Keep demanding excellence." There's nothing wrong with expectations. If I wanted to root for a franchise that didn't care, I could pick up Calgary or Columbus.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I thought we had a deep prospect pool, as I'm always told. Yet, those prospects are sitting in the minors. Why is Tatar sent down when worse players are in the lineup every night?

I understand things are getting tougher, but I feel like Babcock and Holland are making them even worse with terrible personnel decisions. Holland signed the wrong players in the offseason and made a dumb trade for Quincey before that. Babcock outdoes him by not playing Tatar and Nyquist and giving people like Cleary and Abdelkader too much trust.

The fanbase should have high expectations. Name me one great team in sports, with a long successful history, that doesn't have spoiled fans with high expectations. I like that about our fans. We don't like mediocrity. If someone here doesn't accept that fact, they should go join another forum, where people are routinely happy about making the playoffs once in a while.

A deep prospect pool does not equal NHL-ready prospects. At least not in the roles they would be used.

The players playing over Tatar and Nyquist are of different skill sets. Management has decided that, with the roster we have, the greatest chance of success is to grind games out. Mike Babcock has proven to be effective at this style of play. Tatar and Nyquist do not contribute much to this. They are very much willing to sacrifice offensive POTENTIAL for players with PROVEN defensive skills. Whether you like to admit it or not it's worked out alright so far despite the spoiled fanbase going nuts.

Of course fans should have expectations but to not have the ability to see what this team is going through is naive. To not realize there are at least 10-15 teams just as attractive as us as a destination to play for players is naive. Again this isn't 10 years ago where there's 2-3 teams at the top where everyone wants to go. Talent is spread out more and more. We're not going to get the top players every year. This is a reality.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

A deep prospect pool does not equal NHL-ready prospects. At least not in the roles they would be used.

The players playing over Tatar and Nyquist are of different skill sets. Management has decided that, with the roster we have, the greatest chance of success is to grind games out. Mike Babcock has proven to be effective at this style of play. Tatar and Nyquist do not contribute much to this. They are very much willing to sacrifice offensive POTENTIAL for players with PROVEN defensive skills. Whether you like to admit it or not it's worked out alright so far despite the spoiled fanbase going nuts.

Of course fans should have expectations but to not have the ability to see what this team is going through is naive. To not realize there are at least 10-15 teams just as attractive as us as a destination to play for players is naive. Again this isn't 10 years ago where there's 2-3 teams at the top where everyone wants to go. Talent is spread out more and more. We're not going to get the top players every year. This is a reality.

I realize all that. I understand that Parise, Suter, Iginla, etc. didn't want to come here because we're not all that, and there's parity now.

However, after Holland didn't get what he wanted, he made stupid moves for injury riddled players, which are completely useless to us. Sammy, Colaicovo, Gustavsson, Quincey. Overpayment for all of them, when you consider what they've brought. That's what I'm upset with more than anything else. It's totally fair to criticize Holland for this.

It's also fair to criticize Babcock. How does Tatar not fit into anything? He's scoring goals (something we need badly), and he's shown that he can play along the boards. Babcock also clowned us with a Datsyuk, Abdelkader, Cleary line for several weeks. Nyquist gets called up, but quickly sent down because he can't score on the lower lines. No s***. No one can score on our lower lines.

Fans aren't just irrationally spouting hate. We have arguments to back up our frustrations. Poor moves by the management and poor coaching / line changes / sending the wrong players down.

[The Secret 304]

Yessssssss. Another fire Babcock thread after a bad game. These are my favourite! Even better is this one thinks we should fire Babcock and bring in Ruff... Awesome!

Edited April 1, 2013 by The Secret

[Nyquistfan14 489]

I realize all that. I understand that Parise, Suter, Iginla, etc. didn't want to come here because we're not all that, and there's parity now.

However, after Holland didn't get what he wanted, he made stupid moves for injury riddled players, which are completely useless to us. Sammy, Colaicovo, Gustavsson, Quincey. Overpayment for all of them, when you consider what they've brought. That's what I'm upset with more than anything else. It's totally fair to criticize Holland for this.

It's also fair to criticize Babcock. How does Tatar not fit into anything? He's scoring goals (something we need badly), and he's shown that he can play along the boards. Babcock also clowned us with a Datsyuk, Abdelkader, Cleary line for several weeks. Nyquist gets called up, but quickly sent down because he can't score on the lower lines. No s***. No one can score on our lower lines.

Fans aren't just irrationally spouting hate. We have arguments to back up our frustrations. Poor moves by the management and poor coaching / line changes / sending the wrong players down.

This and a thousand times over! This is why I'm so frustrated with things. It's clear as day that the best 18 players are not on the ice on a regular basis.

[RedWingCraig 32]

Is Lindy Ruff an option for next year? I'm not panicking here and not trying to overreact but Babcock's been here for nine years. Is it time to move on and try something new? What about Ruff? We're bringing in a guy that is very familiar with the East where the Wings will be playing next year. What do you guys think?

No Thanks

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I realize all that. I understand that Parise, Suter, Iginla, etc. didn't want to come here because we're not all that, and there's parity now.

However, after Holland didn't get what he wanted, he made stupid moves for injury riddled players, which are completely useless to us. Sammy, Colaicovo, Gustavsson, Quincey. Overpayment for all of them, when you consider what they've brought. That's what I'm upset with more than anything else. It's totally fair to criticize Holland for this.

It's also fair to criticize Babcock. How does Tatar not fit into anything? He's scoring goals (something we need badly), and he's shown that he can play along the boards. Babcock also clowned us with a Datsyuk, Abdelkader, Cleary line for several weeks. Nyquist gets called up, but quickly sent down because he can't score on the lower lines. No s***. No one can score on our lower lines.

Fans aren't just irrationally spouting hate. We have arguments to back up our frustrations. Poor moves by the management and poor coaching / line changes / sending the wrong players down.

no one can score in our bottom lines? I beg to differ Tatar had no issues scoring on bottom 6 minutes, your argument is invalid. Babs is doing the best with what he is given, like it or not, we HAVE to contend with a 23 man roster, so when our roster players are healthy, the GR guys get sent down. That is just the way it is, Holland isn't going to let babs waive our roster players to keep an ahl guy up, as much as we all may want that, he won't give our guys away for free. This is how hockey works, so stop acting like a 6 year old kid, who doesn't get every toy he wants...

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

no one can score in our bottom lines? I beg to differ Tatar had no issues scoring on bottom 6 minutes, your argument is invalid. Babs is doing the best with what he is given, like it or not, we HAVE to contend with a 23 man roster, so when our roster players are healthy, the GR guys get sent down. That is just the way it is, Holland isn't going to let babs waive our roster players to keep an ahl guy up, as much as we all may want that, he won't give our guys away for free. This is how hockey works, so stop acting like a 6 year old kid, who doesn't get every toy he wants...

Good point. That's why Tatar needs to be a top 6 player. He scored on the lower lines.

I'm merely saying that Nyquist shouldn't be punished for not scoring on the lower lines.

And Tatar has somehow been punished for playing well. For a team trying to make the playoffs, don't you think Tatar should be up right now, instead of helping GR win games? How is that an example of Babcock doing the best he can? Tatar was sent down before Sammy came back from injury (not that he should send anyone down).

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Good point. That's why Tatar needs to be a top 6 player. He scored on the lower lines.

I'm merely saying that Nyquist shouldn't be punished for not scoring on the lower lines.

And Tatar has somehow been punished for playing well. For a team trying to make the playoffs, don't you think Tatar should be up right now, instead of helping GR win games? How is that an example of Babcock doing the best he can? Tatar was sent down before Sammy came back from injury (not that he should send anyone down).

He was sent down to make room for helm, who was supposed to be returning, before his untimely setback. Babcock cannot send down roster players without GM approval to waive them, so yes he is doing what he can with what he has, unfortunately kenny isn't making the best decisions right now

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

He was sent down to make room for helm, who was supposed to be returning, before his untimely setback. Babcock cannot send down roster players without GM approval to waive them, so yes he is doing what he can with what he has, unfortunately kenny isn't making the best decisions right now

I'm blaming Kenny enough.

But is Kenny to blame for Dan Cleary getting more icetime than Tatar did? And Datsyuk having to play on that awful line with him and Abdelkader?

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I'm blaming Kenny enough.

But is Kenny to blame for Dan Cleary getting more icetime than Tatar did? And Datsyuk having to play on that awful line with him and Abdelkader?

Datsyuk requested them

[gowings00 545]

Yeah....it's the players. This is a transition year and we really didn't do much to upgrade the team. I'm not blaming holland on this one ( I will on other trades) because we all know he tried to get Suter and Parise. I'd like to see us pursue Yandle and Jagr but Phoenix may want too much. After that, we just have to hope Helm and Bert come back. If not, try to get something for Fil. Babs is not the problem though.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Datsyuk requested them

I'm sure it was the Vodka.

[Guest Crymson]

I'm sure it was the Vodka.

Easy way to write off a fact that doesn't agree with your agenda.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Easy way to write off a fact that doesn't agree with your agenda.

So you think Datsyuk actually requested them and Babcock was justified in sticking with that line for two weeks, despite their total lack of production.

Brilliant. Maybe Franzen will request playing the point on the powerplay.

And what agenda do you allude to? Criticizing inexplicable lineup decisions and bad personnel moves?

Edited April 1, 2013 by GMRwings1983

[FireCaptain 563]

I'm not saying he should leave, however, I remember one quote he said in an interview because it stuck with me..

The gist of it was that after 10 years, you should change things. You shouldn't do anything for more than 10 years because you get stale, your talk falls on dead ears, you should be constantly learning and doing new things, etc.

I wonder if he's suffering from some of that? I can't find a link to the interview, but I know it happened about 3 to 4 years ago. It was right around the time I hit 10 years at work and it actually made me stop and reassess what I was doing.

**BTW, he was in his 6th year as coach when he signed a 4 year extension through 2014/15. Ten years.. call the Illuminati.

Edited April 1, 2013 by FireCaptain

[Guest Crymson]

So you think Datsyuk actually requested them and Babcock was justified in sticking with that line for two weeks, despite their total lack of production.

They rarely scored, yes, and I didn't like the line at all. That said, they very rarely got scored on either. Babcock was, at the time, going with a highly defensive game, and that line did a very good job of shutting down the opposition's top line.

Brilliant. Maybe Franzen will request playing the point on the powerplay.

Franzen isn't Datsyuk.

And what agenda do you allude to? Criticizing inexplicable lineup decisions and bad personnel moves?

You've got a very pessimistic view of the team, one that I disagree with.