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Richdg

Ericsson for Courturier?

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Just an out of the box thought. philly is willing to move SC according to all the rumor sites. looking for a proven scorer or a top pair Dmen.

if this is true-who really knows, this move might make some sense. We move a 28/29 year old Dman making 3.25 million with 1 year left on his contract. we pick up a 20 year old 6-3/200 pound C that everyone says will be a point per game guy in a couple of years. SC would become the insurence if/when Datsyuk leaves.

yes i understand that this move may hurt us this season. but for the next 10-12 it would make us better and give us the future building block we need.

Crazy i know......

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Just an out of the box thought. philly is willing to move SC according to all the rumor sites. looking for a proven scorer or a top pair Dmen.

if this is true-who really knows, this move might make some sense. We move a 28/29 year old Dman making 3.25 million with 1 year left on his contract. we pick up a 20 year old 6-3/200 pound C that everyone says will be a point per game guy in a couple of years. SC would become the insurence if/when Datsyuk leaves.

yes i understand that this move may hurt us this season. but for the next 10-12 it would make us better and give us the future building block we need.

Crazy i know......

Getting rid of our one and only shutdown defenseman, who is improving by the season, seems like a poor idea---especially for an unproven forward. You'll need to point me at the people who say that Courtourier will be a PPG player soon, because I have never seen anybody say that. If Philly feels that he's got the potential to be their next first-line winger, then he'll be untouchable. But I get the feeling that you're exaggerating.

Edit: He's got only nine points in 33 games so far, and his -12 is second-worst on the team. Not very encouraging.

Edited by Crymson
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Unless hell freezes over Philadelphia would never do that trade... EVER! I would love to get Courturier but its going to cost a pretty penny for one, and for two I doubt they want big E. If they did we would have to include more in this trade.

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A better deal would be Mrazek and Ouellet for Courturier. They want goalie and defensive depth.

I don't care if he's struggling his sophmore year, he's still extremely young and provides a good effort to go along with size.

At the very least he's a direct upgrade over Abdelkader, at the very best he's a 6'2 franchise center that will spark our scoring wingers for years to come.

I would absolutely love it.

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A better deal would be Mrazek and Ouellet for Courturier. They want goalie and defensive depth.

I don't care if he's struggling his sophmore year, he's still extremely young and provides a good effort to go along with size.

At the very least he's a direct upgrade over Abdelkader, at the very best he's a 6'2 franchise center that will spark our scoring wingers for years to come.

I would absolutely love it.

mrazek and ouellet??? no offense but your f*cken crazy ... mrazek has the potential to be a star goalie and ouellet a valuable all around defensemen ...and flyers will only trade couturier in a package deal if they can get a top forward like bobby ryan (dregger mentioned it yesterday)

Edited by nyqvististhefuture
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mrazek and ouellet??? no offense but your f*cken crazy, mrazek has the potential to be a star goalie and ouellet a valuable all around defensemen ...and flyers will only trade couturier in a package deal if they can get a top forward like bobby ryan (dregger mentioned it yesterday)

And Couturier has the potential to be a star forward. The difference is Courturier actually has proven to be an NHL player by the age of 19.

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And Couturier has the potential to be a star forward. The difference is Courturier actually has proven to be an NHL player by the age of 19.

umm no thanks you dont trade away goalies of mrazek's caliber

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umm no thanks you dont trade away goalies of mrazek's caliber

I love Mrazek I really do. But Jimmy is here for the foreseeable future. Adding young big forward to our line up will make us a more effective team for the next 4-5 years, and Couturier has all the potential in the world to be a great player.

I don't see the downside, we lose a blue chip goalie, for a blue chip forward. The difference is we actually have a good goalie that will be here for a while, while our forward depth looks pretty barren for bigger top 6 caliber prospects.

Now unless you think Mrazek will step in next year if we let Howard go, I don't see how this deal doesn't look appealing.

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I love Mrazek I really do. But Jimmy is here for the foreseeable future. Adding young big forward to our line up will make us a more effective team for the next 4-5 years, and Couturier has all the potential in the world to be a great player.

I don't see the downside, we lose a blue chip goalie, for a blue chip forward. The difference is we actually have a good goalie that will be here for a while, while our forward depth looks pretty barren for bigger top 6 caliber prospects.

Now unless you think Mrazek will step in next year if we let Howard go, I don't see how this deal doesn't look appealing.

Mrazek is going to be the back up in about 2 years, then once Howards contract start coming to an end, they will probably split until Mrazek slowly takes over.

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umm no thanks you dont trade away goalies of mrazek's caliber

Pretty much everyone is tradeable. A center with size, the ability to step into the NHL at 19 and with such a high ceiling is well worth a top end G prospect. Ultimately Howard is the goalie for the next 5 years at least which makes Mrazek expendable. Is Courturier worth it? I'm not educated enough to say. But Mrazek is definitely tradeable.

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I love Mrazek I really do. But Jimmy is here for the foreseeable future. Adding young big forward to our line up will make us a more effective team for the next 4-5 years, and Couturier has all the potential in the world to be a great player.

I don't see the downside, we lose a blue chip goalie, for a blue chip forward. The difference is we actually have a good goalie that will be here for a while, while our forward depth looks pretty barren for bigger top 6 caliber prospects.

Now unless you think Mrazek will step in next year if we let Howard go, I don't see how this deal doesn't look appealing.

sorry doesnt look appealing ... just because howard is doing well doesnt mean mrazek wont surpass him and we can trade howard in 2-4 yrs you think if chicago could redo the hasek trade they wouldnt of kept hasek and trade belfour a year or 2 later??

sorry mrazek is untouchable hes got the potential to steal a series by himself , if you wanna trade a goalie prospect its jake patterson

Pretty much everyone is tradeable. A center with size, the ability to step into the NHL at 19 and with such a high ceiling is well worth a top end G prospect. Ultimately Howard is the goalie for the next 5 years at least which makes Mrazek expendable. Is Courturier worth it? I'm not educated enough to say. But Mrazek is definitely tradeable.

whens the last time we had a true superstar goalie with the wings??? osgood ?? vernon??cheveldae?? hanlon? howard is good but i wouldnt say hes an elite goalie we finally have one in mrazek who can be an elite nhl goalie and you guys wanna ship him off .... no thank you

Mrazek is going to be the back up in about 2 years, then once Howards contract start coming to an end, they will probably split until Mrazek slowly takes over.

if anything in 3-4 yrs we can get a nice return back for howard when mrazek is ready for fulltime duties

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whens the last time we had a true superstar goalie with the wings??? osgood ?? vernon??cheveldae?? hanlon? howard is good but i wouldnt say hes an elite goalie we finally have one in mrazek who can be an elite nhl goalie and you guys wanna ship him off .... no thank you

The odds of Mrazek becoming better than Howard are low. Very low.

What's an elite goalie? would top 5 in SV% and GAA be elite? Because if that's not elite then their isn't an NHL goalie that is elite.

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Just an out of the box thought. philly is willing to move SC according to all the rumor sites. looking for a proven scorer or a top pair Dmen.

if this is true-who really knows, this move might make some sense. We move a 28/29 year old Dman making 3.25 million with 1 year left on his contract. we pick up a 20 year old 6-3/200 pound C that everyone says will be a point per game guy in a couple of years. SC would become the insurence if/when Datsyuk leaves.

yes i understand that this move may hurt us this season. but for the next 10-12 it would make us better and give us the future building block we need.

Crazy i know......

And which of Nyquist, Tatar, Sproul, 1st round pick, etc. will the Wings be adding to the trade (and likely more)? It would take more than E to get the trade done.

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The odds of Mrazek becoming better than Howard are low. Very low.

What's an elite goalie? would top 5 in SV% and GAA be elite? Because if that's not elite then their isn't an NHL goalie that is elite.

ya VERY LOW :sigh: He dominated the world juniors and gave some stellar performances .... hes playing great in the ahl in his first season , played great in his first nhl game and he just turned 21 .... hes way ahead of what jimmy howard was when he was this age your fooling yourself if you say otherwise

an elite goalie is a goalie who is the most valuable player to there team , he takes his team to the next level and can win series by themselves (lundqvist,renne) howard is good and hes more important to our success with lidstrom gone but datsyuk/zetterberg is more valuable to us and howard hasnt won any series for us by himself and mrazek has that ability

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No matter what anyone else tells you, I enjoy your sarcasm Crymson.

Indeed...

His criticism is certainly unique - even if it's applied to me :lol:

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A better deal would be Mrazek and Ouellet for Courturier. They want goalie and defensive depth.

I don't care if he's struggling his sophmore year, he's still extremely young and provides a good effort to go along with size.

At the very least he's a direct upgrade over Abdelkader, at the very best he's a 6'2 franchise center that will spark our scoring wingers for years to come.

I would absolutely love it.

That's a huge overpayment. I wouldn't trade either Ouellet or Mrazek, let alone both for 1 guy. Couturier is really good, and would fit in well as a Wing, but I honestly wouldn't trade Ouellet alone for him. Ouellet, Sproul and Backman are the future D on the Wings.

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Interesting how this thread is going. The first response is about trading "our only true shutdown defender", then the rest talk about how much more we would have to add to the deal. Agian we have no idea what it would take. E and tatar? sure. There are many possible ways to do this. But if it can be, do it.

Look at things long term. E is a UFA after next season. he is making 3.25 million per now. How much is it going to take to resign him? i would guess 5 years and 25 million. Is E worth 5 million per season? No. he is a 3/4 not a 1/2. With Kronwall, Smith, Kindl, Dekeyser, Lashoff, Q, Sproul, Oullett, Nicasctro, and de haas still in the system, we have plenty of Dmen ready and on the way. More than enough talent to replace E.

Now go look at the forward group. is there a single future #1 C in the group anywhere? No. not even close. In fact some are suggesting we resign Filppula for 4-5 million per as insurance if datsyuk leaves. Courturier on the other hand is a true future #1 C. For the next year+ he would be our #3 behind dat and z. learning the trade with no pressure. In 2 years, if Datsyuk leaves he is our #2. in 3 years our #1.

HF had Courturier rated as an 8.5 prospect. They compare 8's to Spezza, marleu, and Richards. 9's are compared to E Staal and thornton. So Courturier is somewhere in that range, all of which are/where point per game players.

All that being said, will this ever happen? no. Honestly Holland doesn't have the guts anymore to even try.

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ya VERY LOW :sigh: He dominated the world juniors and gave some stellar performances .... hes playing great in the ahl in his first season , played great in his first nhl game and he just turned 21 .... hes way ahead of what jimmy howard was when he was this age your fooling yourself if you say otherwise

an elite goalie is a goalie who is the most valuable player to there team , he takes his team to the next level and can win series by themselves (lundqvist,renne) howard is good and hes more important to our success with lidstrom gone but datsyuk/zetterberg is more valuable to us and howard hasnt won any series for us by himself and mrazek has that ability

Nobody knows that Mrazek has the ability. He has the potential to.

Jimmy Howad also dominated the 2002 World Juniors and lead the US to a gold medal. Then he goes back to college hockey and leads his team to a final four championship game and lost the game 1-0. He set league records in college. Jimmy was also the first griffin goalie to be named to the all rookie team, and set several griffin records. Then his first NHL season he gets nominated for a Calder trophy and puts up top 5 SV% and GAA numbers better than Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Rinne, Price, Luongo, Thomas.

His career numbers of .917 and 2.42 are not that far off of your elite criteria of .920 and 2.35 for Rinne. Or quick .915 and 2.32. How about Ryan Miller who everyone thought was elite a few years ago with .915 and 2.59.

Fact is Howard has proven to be an elite goalie. And he has been elite at every level.

No goalie is going to put up great numbers with this current Wing's team. They are awful at turning the puck over, and allow way too many high % chances. The only goalie that would do well would be Hasek, and the odds of Mrazek being Hasek are 1 in a million.

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ya VERY LOW :sigh: He dominated the world juniors and gave some stellar performances .... hes playing great in the ahl in his first season , played great in his first nhl game and he just turned 21 .... hes way ahead of what jimmy howard was when he was this age your fooling yourself if you say otherwise

an elite goalie is a goalie who is the most valuable player to there team , he takes his team to the next level and can win series by themselves (lundqvist,renne) howard is good and hes more important to our success with lidstrom gone but datsyuk/zetterberg is more valuable to us and howard hasnt won any series for us by himself and mrazek has that ability

Lets dial back the hysteria around Mrazek a bit here, he's a good prospect but at this point he's nowhere near the level of Jimmy Howard and we'd be lucky if he ever is.

Playing great at the World Juniors isn't any sort of guarantee that you'll be able to do the same in the NHL especially as a goalie. The World Junior top goalie list is littered with guys who had absolutely no success in the NHL.

What we've seen of Mrazek at the NHL level has only told us one thing definitively, and that is he is not NHL ready yet.

He was ok in his first outing but faced very little in the way of difficult shots, then he was subpar in his second game before being returned to the minors. He hasn't played a single playoff game at any professional level, he didn't steal any series in the OHL, he stole 1 game in the World Juniors but didn't lead his team to any sort of medal and he hasn't won anything at the AHL level yet either so I'm not sure how you can classify him as someone who has the ability to steal a series.

I'm against trading him too, mostly because we lack depth in net throughout the organization but lets see how he develops for a few years before we anoint him the savior of the franchise.

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Nobody knows that Mrazek has the ability. He has the potential to.

Jimmy Howad also dominated the 2002 World Juniors and lead the US to a gold medal. Then he goes back to college hockey and leads his team to a final four championship game and lost the game 1-0. He set league records in college. Jimmy was also the first griffin goalie to be named to the all rookie team, and set several griffin records. Then his first NHL season he gets nominated for a Calder trophy and puts up top 5 SV% and GAA numbers better than Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Rinne, Price, Luongo, Thomas.

His career numbers of .917 and 2.42 are not that far off of your elite criteria of .920 and 2.35 for Rinne. Or quick .915 and 2.32. How about Ryan Miller who everyone thought was elite a few years ago with .915 and 2.59.

Fact is Howard has proven to be an elite goalie. And he has been elite at every level.

No goalie is going to put up great numbers with this current Wing's team. They are awful at turning the puck over, and allow way too many high % chances. The only goalie that would do well would be Hasek, and the odds of Mrazek being Hasek are 1 in a million.

i just thank god your not the wings gm

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i just thank god your not the wings gm

I like Mrazek, I'm not saying to trade him for a rental.

His value is high, I agree with you.

But Where was I wrong on Howard? Can you please elaborate?

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Lets dial back the hysteria around Mrazek a bit here, he's a good prospect but at this point he's nowhere near the level of Jimmy Howard and we'd be lucky if he ever is.

Playing great at the World Juniors isn't any sort of guarantee that you'll be able to do the same in the NHL especially as a goalie. The World Junior top goalie list is littered with guys who had absolutely no success in the NHL.

What we've seen of Mrazek at the NHL level has only told us one thing definitively, and that is he is not NHL ready yet.

He was ok in his first outing but faced very little in the way of difficult shots, then he was subpar in his second game before being returned to the minors. He hasn't played a single playoff game at any professional level, he didn't steal any series in the OHL, he stole 1 game in the World Juniors but didn't lead his team to any sort of medal and he hasn't won anything at the AHL level yet either so I'm not sure how you can classify him as someone who has the ability to steal a series.

I'm against trading him too, mostly because we lack depth in net throughout the organization but lets see how he develops for a few years before we anoint him the savior of the franchise.

he just turned 21 no sh*t hes not nhl ready goalies dont fully develop until there 23-25 ... he was the top goalie at the world juniors and hes already making an impact in the ahl at a very young age ... griffins were going nowhere until he showed up and last i checked they were 1st place in there division

as far as im concerned hes a franchise goalie and the future #1 ... ill gladly say i was a stupid idiot and wrong if he turns out to be garbage but i fully doubt ill be wrong on him ... hes untouchable

jake patterson is the trade bait to use when the time comes for a good piece

I like Mrazek, I'm not saying to trade him for a rental.

His value is high, I agree with you.

But Where was I wrong on Howard? Can you please elaborate?

howard is a good goalie and im glad we have him , hes put in solid work for us but i dont think hes an elite goalie heck i even watched tsn reports a while back and they rated goalies in the west and east and i dont even think howard cracked the top 5 goalies in the west

We'lll see if howard can really steal a series on his own this post season ... he never did it with lidstrom here so were really gonna need him now

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10466

here just found this

howard is ranked higher than price rinne ward quick ... can you honestly say youd rather have howard than all those guys??

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howard is ranked higher than price rinne ward quick ... can you honestly say youd rather have howard than all those guys??

Yes.

Look at their career numbers.

Howard .917 with 2.42 gaa his best season was .924 and 2.26 GAA 2.25 million

Price .916 with 2.53 gaa his best season was .923 and 2.35 GAA 6.5 million

Rinne .920 with 2.35 gaa his best season was .930 and 2.12 GAA 7 million

Ward .910 with 2.74 GAA his best season was .923 and 2.56 GAA 6.3 million

Quick .915 with 2.32 GAA his best season was .929 and 1.95 GAA 5.4 million

I don't see the major difference, but you know where I do see? Look at salaries. Howard at 4-5 million is better.

And Rinne's and Quick's best season were behind defensively oriented clubs, not a type of team Howard is playing behind now.

I really think Howard gets underrated here, we finally get a very good goalie, and yet he's not good enough. If we were paying him Quick money, and then puts up .895 SV% like Quick is this year do you think we'd be happy?

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