Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

An interesting point about our apparent deadline strategy


  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

#81 FlashyG

FlashyG

    1st Line All-Star

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,145 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:35 PM

You're suggesting that Franzen is anywhere close to Kesler and Parise and I need to back away from the keyboard.

 

Utterly ridiculous?  No, what you just suggested is utterly ridiculous.

 

The only thing worse than a Holland apologist is a Franzen apologist.

 

You need to be medicated for this nonsense.  Franzen is a gutless softie who has only put up the goals he's managed to because of the centers he's played with.  When Datsyuk is on the ice, why pay attention to one of the biggest underachievers in hockey?  He better put up some goals with those circumstances.

 

Strawman alert.

 

I didn't say Franzen was better than Parise, I actually clearly stated the opposite.


However I did point out with facts that Franzen has provided more value for his cap hit than Parise or Kesler this season.

 

I told you to step back from the Keyboard for stating that Kesler is 10 times the player PARISE is not Franzen.



#82 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,139 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:36 PM

I'm starting to wonder if you guys are actually watching them. Franzen has more assists than goals this season and most of his assists are of the primary variety. He is also 3rd on the team in +/- behind only Datsyuk and Kindl, so he hasn't been any kind of a defensive liability either.

 

I don't have to make a case that he's worth his contract right now, its an absolute fact that he's worth his contract right now, but you might be right about that not being the case 3 or 4 years down the road. 

 

This is why I call it a perceived problem with Franzen, in reality he is 6th among our forwards in hits, and 1st among our top 6 forwards. In blocked shots he's 5th among our forwards and 2nd in the top 6 behind Datsyuk who has an advantage as a penalty killer. Of our top 6 forwards which one do you think is on the ice for the fewest goals against...That would be Franzen, which player do you think has faced the highest quality of competition on the team...Franzen again. 

 

But Franzen haters don't care about #'s and stats, they fly in the face of the conclusions they've already formed and continue to cling to despite evidence to the contrary.

 

I'll leave it at this, If those numbers I just provided are the production of a guy who is gutless, heartless, soft, and continually floating then when playing at full effort he must be a perennial Hart, Selke, Art Ross, and Maurice Richard Trophy favorite.

 

I watch him "float" and all I really see is a guy not expending all of his energy when unnecessary, it is this conservative style of play that allows me to believe he will be able to play at a high level for a long period of time. I am not sure who around here thinks Hudler is just as good as Franzen, but they must, because huds played played in the top 6 and was fed many gifts as goals, and  still couldn't come close to being the player franzen is currently. Franzen is very much underrated on these boards, and I often see him showing emotion, whether it be after the whistle or not. anyways I am going to bed, I have said my piece, so if anyone feels like arguing it, they won't get a response lol


Edited by Euro_Twins, 02 April 2013 - 11:37 PM.


#83 matt198913

matt198913

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,973 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:56 PM

Franzen has been fine this year. When he starts to go off for 2 or 3 goals then the whiners will stop.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#84 cupforwings

cupforwings

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:28 AM

If anyone here believes Twitter, Dave Waddell and George Malik, do yourself a favor and sleep through the rest of today and all of Wednesday.

 

I saw a very interesting comment on one of Malik's blog posts today.  Not only that, but I totally agree with it.

 

From PaulInMiamiBeach:

I’m so sick of this “you can’t fix it all at once, so don’t fix any of it at all” attitude.  That is a recipe for failure.

 

He hit it right on the head for me.

 

Not only that, but I believe it was kipwinger who shared pretty much the same sentiment.  Doing nothing makes us just as worse as making a bad deal does.  This team is full of bad deals.  Cleary, Bertuzzi, Sammuelsson, Quincey, Colaiacovo, Gustavsson, the list goes on.  If we emerge from this trade deadline the same team, this team is going nowhere.  Not even to the playoffs.  Nowhere.  But, we already knew that, didn't we?

 

This season wasn't always a "rebuilding/transitional" year.  Off the topic, but transitioning to what?  Mediocrity?  Becoming an awful team for several decades?  What's the end result?  It honestly frightens me to think about it.  Anyways, this season only became such when the team failed to do much of anything in free agency.  At that point, management cut off their own collective manhood, threw their hands in the air, and gave up.  At least, that's the way I see it.

 

Also, I'd like to address some ridiculous and false optimism.  People cite the lowering of the cap next season and say how many great players will be available because of cap-compliance buyouts.

 

Sorry, but that's the biggest crock on Earth.

 

Do people really think that quality players will be bought out?

 

That's hilarious.  No one is going to buy out key pieces, people.  Certainly not a top-6 scoring forward who can consistently score goals.  That's the reality of it.  People think all these players are going to fall right into our lap.

 

Not only that, but wasn't that the mantra last summer?  See how that turned out.

 

So, by all means Kenny, do nothing.  I just hope your prepared for another firestorm from everyone around you afterwards.  I would've thought you'd be sick of that already.

 

Our prospects aren't nearly as good as everyone seems to think.  I've seen Tatar and Nyquist...and I'm not impressed.  They've fallen victim to scouting.  Teams know them, and I'd say that's about it for them.  Our farm system is almost entirely boom-or-bust.  See the dramatic peaks and valleys of a lot of their past performances.  Jarnkrok and Pulkinnen, especially.

 

So, I guess tomorrow's a waste of time.  Great.  It'll be fun watching this team spiral out of control and crash in a flaming heap outside the playoff window.

:shout: Geeze dude, pull it together.  We are in the playoff race right now with a team who has been severely injured this year.  This whining is getting out of control.  



I just want them to do something.  But, they won't.  I can guarantee this team misses the playoffs without an addition or two.

 

That makes NO sense.  How can you guarantee this? We have been in the top 8 of the western conference for a majority of the season.  What makes you so sure we are just going to bomb our way out of the playoffs?  It seems more like you are being a baby about not making a trade.  I'm all for a trade if it makes the team better.  But I get the feeling there are not a lot of those out there, especially this year.  We will more likely then not make the playoffs.



#85 BadgerBob

BadgerBob

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:32 AM

Well this should indicate I don't need to watch any sports tickers tomorrow....

 

 

"Ken Holland says Red Wings Fans Shouldn't Expect Trades"

http://www.detroitne..._medium=twitter



#86 matt198913

matt198913

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,973 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:11 AM

Not surprised and don't care. The Wings have everything a team needs right now. Granted that's when they are 100% healthy.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#87 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,567 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:14 AM

Not surprised and don't care. The Wings have everything a team needs right now. Granted that's when they are 100% healthy.



Ya I agree!! Our superstar in cleary is a beast. Wait until or 50 goal a year in Bert, Sammy, and helm are back. Also this just in. Lids is coming back if we make the playoffs. We have every a team needs and he wants another cup.

#88 BadgerBob

BadgerBob

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:19 AM

Not surprised and don't care. The Wings have everything a team needs right now. Granted that's when they are 100% healthy.

 

I guess those needs depend on what you want your team to do. Do we have a goal scorer? Last time someone reached over 30 goals on the Red Wings was 2008-09 when we had 4 guys reach over 30 and one had  over 40. In my opinion right now we do not have everything a team needs.



#89 TheOwl

TheOwl

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 945 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:32 AM

The Wings should get Hudler back, he would instantly be our 5th best forward.



#90 evilmrt

evilmrt

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,539 posts
  • Location:Winter Freakin Wonderland

Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:46 AM

Well this should indicate I don't need to watch any sports tickers tomorrow....

 

 

"Ken Holland says Red Wings Fans Shouldn't Expect Trades"

http://www.detroitne..._medium=twitter

 

 

Not surprised and don't care. The Wings have everything a team needs right now. Granted that's when they are 100% healthy.

 

This is stupid. At the very least, the Wings could be picking up some draft picks. 



#91 darkmanx

darkmanx

    Toronto's Finest

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,621 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:53 AM

If Flip walks at the end of the year, Holland should be fired for not getting something for him if he doesn't think he will re-sign. If we aren't going to do anything, might as well make sure he will re-sign for cheaper than 5 million.



#92 GoalieManPat

GoalieManPat

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,364 posts
  • Location:Swartz Creek, MI

Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:06 AM

I wouldnt put to much expectation on Holland making a trade or making good trades. In my opinion his strength is in resigning players and playing the FA market. Look at his history. He doesnt really make any "good trades" or he gets fleeced ( hello 1st round pick for Quincey). Everything else is just spare parts for late picks types of trades. Just off hand the last decade what trade has he made that could be considered a good trade? I can only think Stuart. Before that maybe Lang? So just two in the last 10 years almost.

 

In my opinion if he comes down to trading Flip or paying him 5 million then Holland is going to pay him 5 million. I dont think he likes taking the risk of trades. Especially with roster players I mean hes giving Samuelsson 3 million a year to continually play 1 game and then get hurt and sit for multiple weeks so why wont he give Flip 5+ million to underperform this season.
 



#93 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,523 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:55 AM

Franzen has been fine this year. When he starts to go off for 2 or 3 goals then the whiners will stop.

Franzen is on pace for 10 goals this season...For a 82 game season he'd be on pace for 20 to 22 goals...So far IMHO Franzen has been far - far away from "fine".

 

When exactly will he start ripping off 2 plus goals per game?..From what I can tell those days are over.

 

EDIT - As Nightfall rightfully pointed out below - Franzen has missed several games this shortened season due to injury...If taken that into account we could potentially add several more points (2 to 3 more goals, 3 to 4 more assists).


Edited by F.Michael, 03 April 2013 - 07:33 AM.


'Evolution' created by Offsides

#94 Nightfall

Nightfall

    My goal is to deny yours!

  • Gold Booster
  • 3,742 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids

Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:17 AM

Franzen is on pace for 10 goals this season...For a 82 game season he'd be on pace for 20 to 22 goals...So far IMHO Franzen has been far - far away from "fine".

 

When exactly will he start ripping off 2 plus goals per game?..From what I can tell those days are over.

 

Considering he sat out 20% of the games with injury, you taking that into effect?  Being as that you said 82 games, I would suppose not.

 

Still 20 points in 29 games is nothing to sneeze at.  Especially for his cap hit.


Edited by Nightfall, 03 April 2013 - 07:19 AM.

Christopher Brian Dudek
My Domain

#95 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,523 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:29 AM

Considering he sat out 20% of the games with injury, you taking that into effect?  Being as that you said 82 games, I would suppose not.

 

Still 20 points in 29 games is nothing to sneeze at.  Especially for his cap hit.

Not meaning to bash you, but when people use the phrase "not a bad value for his cap hit" is a sign that the player in question is under-performing as we see in Franzen these past few seasons.



'Evolution' created by Offsides

#96 Z Winged Dangler

Z Winged Dangler

    Part 3: Return of the Hammer Hands

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,196 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

Franzen has been fine this year. When he starts to go off for 2 or 3 goals then the whiners will stop.

 The only problem I have with Franzen is that he doesn't hustle that much.  He's good on the cycle, but a lot of the time he takes a really lame bad angle shot when he has one of the best shots in the league.  Every time he goes to the slot, he scores.  He just doesn't go to the slot often.  Watch every PP goal he has this year.  Slot - one-timer - back of the net.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#97 RedWingAbner

RedWingAbner

    My Loony Bun Is Fine, Benny Lava

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,319 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:10 AM

If Flip walks at the end of the year, Holland should be fired for not getting something for him if he doesn't think he will re-sign. If we aren't going to do anything, might as well make sure he will re-sign for cheaper than 5 million.

 

Holland should be fired regardless.  He's a crappy GM that has conned a fanbase into thinking he's awesome, but he does jack every year.



#98 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,188 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

I've always been a huge Franzen defender and have grown totally weary of the Hossa vs. Franzen debate, but it's been really hard to defend Franzen this year.  It's not even about the stats sheet.  For a guy his size and with his shot and what not and to see how little he does. It's so frustrating watching him out there.  There is no way he should not be the leading goal scorer on this team with all the PP time he gets and his talent.  What's even worse is watching him fall down and STAY down.  It takes him a good 30 seconds to get back on his feet.  He's not a huge cap hit, but even still.  He alone could easily propel the Wings into a solid playoff position and can carry the team on his shoulders, but more often than not, he's a total no show.



#99 Esquire

Esquire

    Fix up, Look sharp.

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,268 posts
  • Location:Whitby, ON

Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:32 AM

If Flip walks at the end of the year, Holland should be fired for not getting something for him if he doesn't think he will re-sign. If we aren't going to do anything, might as well make sure he will re-sign for cheaper than 5 million.

 
 

Holland should be fired regardless.  He's a crappy GM that has conned a fanbase into thinking he's awesome, but he does jack every year.

So, Ken Holland's job hinges on a second liner who cracked 60 pts once in his career. Got it.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#100 Andy Pred 48

Andy Pred 48

    Coming soon,"the slovak line" Marek and 2 Toms!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,865 posts
  • Location:Peterborough England

Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:35 AM

3.70GAA and 0.870% , are these the stats of a winner? possably not.

 

4 Stanley Cups in 15 years as sole GM are the stats of a winner.

 

Kenny may not be everyones cup of tea  but he aint the worst GM out there.

 

I would say 97% of us knew he would more or less stand pat this year but we

 

still hold out hope that that blockbuster deal will happen for us. But its fun at

 

playing the GM role and moaning when 'our' cant lose deal doesn't happen.

 

On a positive note, we are starting to look pretty stacked at the back and a lot

 

bigger than in previous years. A couple of additions up front and we'll be there

 

or thereabouts for many years to come. Contender? not just yet but in 2-3 years

 

I can see us being a major force again.


"What are you guys doing?" Reggie Dunlop
"Putting on the foil coach" Jeff Hanson
"Yeah, every game, you want some coach?" Steve Hanson
"Er, no. No thanks guys." Reggie Dunlop
"Make sure they don't leave the bench!" Reggie Dunlop.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users