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DetroitRedWings1993

An interesting point about our apparent deadline strategy

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3.70GAA and 0.870% , are these the stats of a winner? possably not.

4 Stanley Cups in 15 years as sole GM are the stats of a winner.

Kenny may not be everyones cup of tea but he aint the worst GM out there.

I would say 97% of us knew he would more or less stand pat this year but we

still hold out hope that that blockbuster deal will happen for us. But its fun at

playing the GM role and moaning when 'our' cant lose deal doesn't happen.

On a positive note, we are starting to look pretty stacked at the back and a lot

bigger than in previous years. A couple of additions up front and we'll be there

or thereabouts for many years to come. Contender? not just yet but in 2-3 years

I can see us being a major force again.

#1, he wasn't the GM in 1997. He inherited that team and added Macoun + Mironov and won in 1998. At best, I'd call that 1/10 "his" team.

In 2002, he went and got every player the Wings could've wanted via free agency.

In 2008, a team largely built on European, late-round Hakan Andersson-found talent won it.

Holland is the luckiest GM in sports b/c he doesn't do anything yet because of the team's success in spite of him, people like him.

How many times have we let a player walk for nothing, then brought him back as means to "improve" the team? Kyle Quincey is the most recent, but he's done this with others as well. How many times has a player be let go by KH to become something we could use? Cap hit aside, Leino wasn't worth keeping for the year he went to Philly? Shane Hnidy? Kyle Quincey? These aren't even "prospects" shipped out to bring in guys, which I argue for. These are guys let go for nothing.

Holland sucks. It is going to be the greatest day in the history of the Red Wings when he is no longer the GM. He has convinced a formerly rabid fan base to accept mediocrity and complacency, and rather than buying it, there are some of us who realize that he's not the savior....he's an anchor.

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He's traded

3/23/99 - Traded D Anders Eriksson + 1999 1st round pick (#23/Steve McCarthy) + 2001 1st round pick (#29/Adam Munro) to Chicago Blackhawks for D Chris Chelios

3/23/99 - Traded 1999 2nd round pick (#59/David Inman) + 2000 3rd round pick (#74/Igor Radulov) to New York Rangers for D Ulf Samuelsson

3/23/99 - Traded G Kevin Hodson + 1999 2nd round pick (#47/Sheldon Keefe) to Tampa Bay Lightning for LW Wendel Clark + 1999 6th round pick (#181/Kent McDonell)

6/30/01 - Traded LW Vyacheslav Kozlov + 2002 1st round pick (#30/Jim Slater) to Buffalo Sabres for G Dominik Hasek

7/9/01 - Traded D Aaron Ward to Carolina Hurricanes for 2002 2nd round pick (#58/Jiri Hudler)

6/22/02 - Traded 2003 3rd round pick (#98/Grigory Shafigulin) to Nashville Predators for 2002 3rd round pick (#95/Valtteri Filppula)

7/14/05 - Hired head coach Mike Babcock

6/24/06 - Traded 2006 1st round pick (#29/Chris Summers) + 2006 5th round pick (#152/Jordan Bendfeld) to Phoenix Coyotes for 2006 2nd round pick (#41/Cory Emmerton) + 2006 2nd round pick (#47/Shawn Matthias)

2/26/08 - Traded 2008 2nd round pick (#61/Peter Delmas) + 2009 4th round pick (#119/Ben Chiarot) to Los Angeles Kings for D Brad Stuart

6/24/09 - Traded 2009 1st round pick (#29/Ashton Carter) to Tampa Bay Lightning for 2009 2nd round pick (#32/Landon Ferraro) + 2009 3rd round pick (#75/Andrej Nestrasil)

11/11/09 - Claimed LW Drew Miller off waivers from Tampa Bay Lighting


2/6/10 - Traded LW Ville Leino to Philadelphia Flyers for D Ole-Kristian Tollefsen + 2011 5th round pick (#145/Mattias Backman)

6/24/11 - Traded 2011 1st round pick (#24/Matt Puempel) to Ottawa Senators for 2011 2nd round pick (#35/Tomas Jurco) + 2011 2nd round pick (#48/Xavier Ouellet)

Those are just some moves, credit to FissionFire's thread on HFboards. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=576043

I would hardly say he's done nothing, made some very good hires, and kept the majority of good players in the organization, if you look at the players we've lost, vs. the player's we've gained it's not even close. It's been very positive, he's been very good about keeping good players(Howard, Kronwall), and letting players go(Hudler, Ritola, Leino etc.)

Sure he's not perfect, but man he is better than most GM's. Do you really want to risk a new guy, and be facing Feaster selling of the heart of your team for 26 year old goalies that have never came to North America?

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Guest Crymson

#1, he wasn't the GM in 1997. He inherited that team and added Macoun + Mironov and won in 1998. At best, I'd call that 1/10 "his" team.

In 2002, he went and got every player the Wings could've wanted via free agency.

In 2008, a team largely built on European, late-round Hakan Andersson-found talent won it.

Holland is the luckiest GM in sports b/c he doesn't do anything yet because of the team's success in spite of him, people like him.

How many times have we let a player walk for nothing, then brought him back as means to "improve" the team? Kyle Quincey is the most recent, but he's done this with others as well. How many times has a player be let go by KH to become something we could use? Cap hit aside, Leino wasn't worth keeping for the year he went to Philly? Shane Hnidy? Kyle Quincey? These aren't even "prospects" shipped out to bring in guys, which I argue for. These are guys let go for nothing.

Holland sucks. It is going to be the greatest day in the history of the Red Wings when he is no longer the GM. He has convinced a formerly rabid fan base to accept mediocrity and complacency, and rather than buying it, there are some of us who realize that he's not the savior....he's an anchor.

So sorry, but I trust the opinion of the countless hockey analysts who call him one of the best in the business more than I trust yours.

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#1, he wasn't the GM in 1997. He inherited that team and added Macoun + Mironov and won in 1998. At best, I'd call that 1/10 "his" team.

In 2002, he went and got every player the Wings could've wanted via free agency.

In 2008, a team largely built on European, late-round Hakan Andersson-found talent won it.

Holland is the luckiest GM in sports b/c he doesn't do anything yet because of the team's success in spite of him, people like him.

How many times have we let a player walk for nothing, then brought him back as means to "improve" the team? Kyle Quincey is the most recent, but he's done this with others as well. How many times has a player be let go by KH to become something we could use? Cap hit aside, Leino wasn't worth keeping for the year he went to Philly? Shane Hnidy? Kyle Quincey? These aren't even "prospects" shipped out to bring in guys, which I argue for. These are guys let go for nothing.

Holland sucks. It is going to be the greatest day in the history of the Red Wings when he is no longer the GM. He has convinced a formerly rabid fan base to accept mediocrity and complacency, and rather than buying it, there are some of us who realize that he's not the savior....he's an anchor.

he was head of scouting for seven years before he became assistant gm for four years, then became gm. If Andersson is responsible for our 08 team, the kenny as head of scouting would be responsible for our 97 team

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hey slow down buddy, I get the non man love for Kenny from you, but Im just stating what will be on his CV. And believe me 'luckiest GM' wont be on it that's a fact.

For your info, he was appointed joint GM with Scotty and Jim on the 3rd June 1994 and was made GM on the 18th July 1997, that makes it 1997 as far as I can work it out, I get the concept we had won the cup before his appointment, but he was GM in 1997.

2002 he went and got the best because back then we could in a un-capped era so he got luck again I take it?

2008 was based on Hakan drafting all the euro talent, that when all said and done is vetted by the other front office guys at draft day.

The Redwings aren't the only team that brings back former players after letting them go. So its not a unique trend on the Wings part.

I doubt the fan base have accepted mediocrity but they may have finally understood what the cap era is all about. I truly wish we were

in a position to trade for elite talent, but our own success has put us in the situation we are in now, not having the pieces to tempt other

teams without given up some of our stars in what would be a like for like trade. That isn't worth doing however you look at it.

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Guest Crymson

Second, the reason non-contending teams are in that position is because they have a lack of "great players". It's not common. Not many great players with Buffalo or Florida. We don't have too many here, either. We're full of third and fourth-liners. That was a mistake any way you slice it.

Because it's an absurd point, I'm finally going to address this. If you truly believe that there are never great players who play on mediocre teams, then I can only conclude that you neither pay attention to hockey now nor know much of anything about its past. I cannot even begin to list all of the excellent players who have played on non-playoff teams. You needn't look any further than Yzerman, for example. If you want newer examples, check out Toews and Kane, whose team missed the playoffs in their first season, or Crosby, whose Penguins were one of the worst teams in the league for his first season, or Ovechkin, who did not make the playoffs until his third season in the league. We can lengthen the list to include the likes of Martin St. Louis, whose worth season over the past ten years was a 61-point campaign (the rest range from 70-102), and whose team has nevertheless made the playoffs only five times during that span. Kopitar has made the playoffs in two of his six seasons. Ilya Kovalchuk only made the playoffs once in his six complete seasons with the Thrashers. I could go on and on about this, and I wouldn't even make a dent in this list. The point of all this is that your allegation is completely ridiculous.

Edited by Crymson

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Franzen for his size should be intimidating. He has the ability to change a series yet he doesn't do it.

In my lifetime (not very long yet) there's only been four players I've seen who when they step on the ice the coach, the team on the bench and players on the ice pay attention to: datsyuk, ovie, jagr and bure.

Franzen has that capability but he doesn't use it. He can score, drag defense toward him, crash the net but instead he chooses to wait for dats to clear for him...unacceptable

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