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#641 Jesusberg

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

Its all the contradictory BS that Holland has been feeding the world that gets most of us. He says 'We need to get better via free agency, he s**ts the bed in Free agency. Then he says 'We will explore trades over the summer/during the season/at the deadline to address our needs', come trade deadline he sh*ts the bed again. Now he says 'We need to build around our youth and the draft' and yet, he keeps players like Sammuelson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, et al in the line up at the expense of younger NHL level talent in the minors, and also doesn't trade the tradeable assets to build more youth into the system.

 

This is enough to make ones head spin. I wish he wouldn't treat the fan base like we are stupid and do what he says for once. 

 

So it's Ken's fault that Suter CHOSE Minnesota? It's his fault that teams like Minny, Columbus and Washington are willing to overpay? Guys like Tatar and Nyquist HAVE played because of injuries to the guys you mentioned. They'll have full-time gigs when those guys leave.

 

Huberdeau.

 

Nugent-Hopkins before the injury.

 

Cory Conacher.

 

Brad Marchand (first full NHL season, true rookie season).

 

John Tavares.

 

What's your definition of "dominate"?

 

Every prospect we have on D is extremely boom-or-bust.  You don't build franchises with feast-or-famine players.



I agree to a certain extent.  I think it's more his complete and utter failure to acquire anything of real, lasting quality since Hossa that creates it.  This fanbase is hungry for a move that gets us going.  We want to see a new face and watch him play.  I'm included in that crowd.  We're out of luck, however, as the rebuild is upon us and there won't be much to cheer for for a few years coming.

 

Three of those guys were top 5 picks (two were 1st overall). Detroit doesn't pick in the top five, thus, their prospects aren't handled like top five picks.



#642 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

Glad we didn't get pomminville, wild got fleeced.

Kinda yeah, Gaborik was cheaper.


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#643 FlashyG

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

Huberdeau.

 

Nugent-Hopkins before the injury.

 

Cory Conacher.

 

Brad Marchand (first full NHL season, true rookie season).

 

John Tavares.

 

What's your definition of "dominate"?

 

Every prospect we have on D is extremely boom-or-bust.  You don't build franchises with feast-or-famine players.



I agree to a certain extent.  I think it's more his complete and utter failure to acquire anything of real, lasting quality since Hossa that creates it.  This fanbase is hungry for a move that gets us going.  We want to see a new face and watch him play.  I'm included in that crowd.  We're out of luck, however, as the rebuild is upon us and there won't be much to cheer for for a few years coming.

 

Notice something familiar about all those teams? Florida - Worst team in their conference, Tampa - Second worst team in the conference, Edmonton in RNH rookie year - one of the worst teams in the league, Same goes for the Islanders in Tavares' rookie year.

 

The only one of those guys who played on a good team was Marchand and you have to qualify him but using his 2nd season because his first year where he played 20 games he was hot garbage.

 

Tatar played played fewer games than Marchand did in his short stint and put up 7x more points, while being a + player vs Marchands -3.

 

Unless you have a crystal ball that says otherwise Tatar might turn out to be even better than Marchand. 

 

The Wings prospect pool is at its deepest point in the franchise's history, why are you in such a rush to write off everyone in it?



#644 kipwinger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:26 PM

So it's Ken's fault that Suter CHOSE Minnesota? It's his fault that teams like Minny, Columbus and Washington are willing to overpay? Guys like Tatar and Nyquist HAVE played because of injuries to the guys you mentioned. They'll have full-time gigs when those guys leave.

 

 

Three of those guys were top 5 picks (two were 1st overall). Detroit doesn't pick in the top five, thus, their prospects aren't handled like top five picks.

 

It's not an overpayment.  It's the going rate in today's NHL.  Ken Holland has to get with the times.  If you want a high end player (he said he did) and you're not currently developing one (we aren't), then you've got to pay market value (he doesn't).  There's a reason we haven't been getting anybody of note recently, and I know this is a surprise, but it's because KH isn't willing to pay what competitors in the market place are willing to pay. 

 

It's simple supply and demand, there is a small supply of high end players and everyone wants them, so the price is high.  Apparently KH doesn't want them bad enough.  Simple as that. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#645 Jesusberg

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:30 PM

It's not an overpayment.  It's the going rate in today's NHL.  Ken Holland has to get with the times.  If you want a high end player (he said he did) and you're not currently developing one (we aren't), then you've got to pay market value (he doesn't).  There's a reason we haven't been getting anybody of note recently, and I know this is a surprise, but it's because KH isn't willing to pay what competitors in the market place are willing to pay. 

 

It's simple supply and demand, there is a small supply of high end players and everyone wants them, so the price is high.  Apparently KH doesn't want them bad enough.  Simple as that. 

 

Aside from Gaborik, those were severe overpayments. I'm ecstatic that Kenny isn't willing to pay what those guys are. In 3-4 years we'll have some solid, young talent on cheap contracts in the line-up. I can't wait.

Edit: Just saw this in an article. 
 

“We offered some of (prospects). At the end of the day someone didn’t like them as much as we do or they liked someone else’s players better.”

Edited by Jesusberg, 03 April 2013 - 06:35 PM.


#646 esteef

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:35 PM

It's not an overpayment.  It's the going rate in today's NHL.  Ken Holland has to get with the times.  If you want a high end player (he said he did) and you're not currently developing one (we aren't), then you've got to pay market value (he doesn't).  There's a reason we haven't been getting anybody of note recently, and I know this is a surprise, but it's because KH isn't willing to pay what competitors in the market place are willing to pay. 

 

It's simple supply and demand, there is a small supply of high end players and everyone wants them, so the price is high.  Apparently KH doesn't want them bad enough.  Simple as that. 

 

This.  Kenny lacks the courage to pull the trigger on high end talent for fear of "overpaying" (gasp!).  Anytime there is any kind of competition for a player these days Kenny loses.  Good thing DeKeyser had an entry level cap or Kenny would've probably lost him too.

 

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#647 achildr1

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:51 PM

 
ovie, malkin, and he who shall not be named are the only prospects that really came out and just kicked straight up ass in their rookie years in the last 10 years

Skinner was pretty good as an 18 year old.

#648 kipwinger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

Aside from Gaborik, those were severe overpayments. I'm ecstatic that Kenny isn't willing to pay what those guys are. In 3-4 years we'll have some solid, young talent on cheap contracts in the line-up. I can't wait.

Edit: Just saw this in an article. 
 

“We offered some of (prospects). At the end of the day someone didn’t like them as much as we do or they liked someone else’s players better.”

 

In 3-4 years Datsyuk and Flip will probably be gone, and Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Franzen will be on the decline.  So I hope those "solid, young, talents" are better than projected because that's a lot of leadership, scoring, defense, and consistency that we're about to lose. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#649 kipwinger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:59 PM

ovie, malkin, and he who shall not be named are the only prospects that really came out and just kicked straight up ass in their rookie years in the last 10 years

 

There's the list back to 2000.  There's a lot of really impressive rookie seasons. 

 

Year Winner Runner-up 2012 Gabriel Landeskog, Colorado Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Edmonton 2011 Jeff Skinner, Carolina Logan Couture, San Jose 2010 Tyler Myers, Buffalo Jimmy Howard, Detroit 2009 Steve Mason, Columbus Bobby Ryan, Anaheim 2008 Patrick Kane, Chicago Nicklas Backstrom, Washington 2007 Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh Paul Stastny, Colorado 2006 Alex Ovechkin, Washington Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh 2004 Andrew Raycroft, Boston Michael Ryder, Montreal 2003 Barrett Jackman, St. Louis Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit 2002 Dany Heatley, Atlanta Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta 2001 Evgeni Nabokov, San Jose Brad Richards, Tampa Bay 2000 Scott Gomez, New Jersey Brad Stuart, San Jose

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#650 13dangledangle

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:03 PM

This.  Kenny lacks the courage to pull the trigger on high end talent for fear of "overpaying" (gasp!).  Anytime there is any kind of competition for a player these days Kenny loses.  Good thing DeKeyser had an entry level cap or Kenny would've probably lost him too.

 

esteef

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#651 irishock

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:18 PM

  1. Honestly, would love Clowe to prove me wrong. Great guy. Character guy. Didn't deserve zero goals. I just couldn't get past it.

     

@cotsonika Good guy? Ryane Clowe is the biggest ***** f***head in the NHL. Next to Crosby.


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#652 arag

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:49 PM

FYI Clowe and Brassard are destroying Penguins already !

#653 gowings00

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

If we win the cup this year...many of you will still hate the Wings and Holland for not making a move this or last year.


No they won't .....all you'll hear is people saying "I told you so". Even the ones that bitched and bitched?

#654 GMRwings1983

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:54 PM

Can't believe Columbus is now more lucrative and hungrier than the Red Wings.

 

Holland should step down in the offseason.  


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#655 Carman

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:00 PM

Can't believe Columbus is now more lucrative and hungrier than the Red Wings.

 

Holland should step down in the offseason.  

How do you know that getting Gaborik will work out?



#656 esteef

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:10 PM

Clowe with 2 goals and an assist so far against the mighty Pens.  Rangers got fleeced!

 

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#657 GMRwings1983

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:11 PM

How do you know that getting Gaborik will work out?

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Point is, they had the balls and initiative to make the move.  Took a chance.  Columbus of all teams.

 

Their fans (if they have any) are excited right now, while ours are pissed.  The ones not pissed are pointing at the banners and talking about past successes.

 

I want this franchise to remain great and relevant, not be one that used to be relevant, like Montreal and Chicago all those recent years. 


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#658 Carman

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

Doesn't matter.

 

Point is, they had the balls and initiative to make the move.  Took a chance.  Columbus of all teams.

 

Their fans (if they have any) are excited right now, while ours are pissed.  The ones not pissed are pointing at the banners and talking about past successes.

 

I want this franchise to remain great and relevant, not be one that used to be relevant, like Montreal and Chicago all those recent years. 

umm, not really. They hate losing Dorsett. And Brassard is currently tearing it up with New York tonight.

 

New York might have became a better team.

 

Gaborik also has a ton of injury history, how do you think we'd be feeling right now if his back/hip/groin started to act up?



#659 Number19

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:20 PM

umm, not really. They hate losing Dorsett. And Brassard is currently tearing it up with New York tonight.

 

New York might have became a better team.

 

Gaborik also has a ton of injury history, how do you think we'd be feeling right now if his back/hip/groin started to act up?

He'd fit right in.



#660 Euro_Twins

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:21 PM

Lol, after all the moves the pens made, all these big splashes, and the past two games they've been outscored 9-2 so far. Sometimes its better to stand pat lol





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