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Concerned - we might not make it in to the playoffs


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#141 Serratoni

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:08 PM

Who cares about embarrassing?  Since Holland is FINALLY suggesting that we're in a rebuild (only after missing out on Jagr I might add) we might as well think about the long term.  And in the long term missing the playoffs and getting the higher pick is probably better than making it, losing early, and getting the 20th overall or whatever it would be.  They don't play for bragging rights, they play to win the cup, and even if me make the playoffs we're likely not winning anything. 

 

Also, the fact that we're having this discussion is embarrassing no matter what happens with the playoffs.

 

First, I was responding to the poster (I quoted) who claimed it was embarrassing to make the playoffs and lose early. If you're offended by the term, take it up with him.

 

Second, I have confidence in the organization. The Wings don't need top 5 picks to find future stars or diamonds in the rough. They've proven this time and again for years.

 

Third, I just cannot support rooting against one's team. The players want to win. The ownership wants to win (and deserves the extra revenue from playoff games). The folks who work at the stadium want to win. *I* want them to win.

 

Fourth, I think the playoff streak is a bigger deal than many give it credit for. It would be sweet if the Wings could beat the Bruins record.



#142 GMRwings1983

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:16 PM

Something interesting that was pointed out to me.  If the playoffs started today, all O6 teams would face each other in the first round:

 

(2) Montréal Canadiens vs (7) New York Rangers

(4) Boston Bruins vs (5) Toronto Maple Leafs

 

(1) Chicago Blackhawks vs (8) Detroit Red Wings

 

I don't know if the standings end up that way but that would be pretty amazing.  Heck, how long has it been since all O6 teams made the playoffs the same year at all anyway?

 

Holy crap.  That would be awesome!

 

Although I wouldn't look forward to playing the Hawks.  


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#143 Buppy

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:06 PM

...Remember when we won the cup in 2008.  Our third line was Hudler, Filppula, and Sammy.  ...

 

Also, the fact that we're having this discussion is embarrassing no matter what happens with the playoffs.

 

Actually, that was in '09. In '08, Flip and Sammy were on the 2nd line with Franzen. Huds was on the 4th with Helm. Our third line was Cleary-Draper-Drake.

 

And what is embarassing is this fanbase's inability to handle adversity.

 

...

And another problem having to do with decline is the fact that we have struggled to attract high-end talent lately. That's not getting any better anytime soon, playoffs or not, until Holland either makes some splashes or we start drafting guys that can really make a splash a few years down the line. For that to happen, basically, we have to suck for awhile. Holland seems incapable at this point of building a true contender via trade or free agency, so perhaps the best option for the long-run success is to focus on the draft and trade what assets we have to stock up the farm. ...

 

Now we're an overachieving, middle of the road team at best, competitive mostly because we still have Dats and Z in the fold every night. That's all good and well, but it's not sustainable, and again, if Holland can't bring in talent through trade or free agency and we keep drafting in the back of the middle, we're going to be in a lot more trouble as Dats and Z age and we have no premier talent to build around. It's just going to keep getting worse, and that's certainly not going to help us bring in talent. So again, at this point, especially this season, I think we're better off doing all we can to draft as high as we can and as often as we can. I hate losing too, but you've got to be realistic about the situation that we're in if you care about being even a semi-competitive team 4-5 years from now.

 

If nothing changes and we continue down this middle ground, grinding down Dats and Z until they just can't carry us anymore, we're going to be a terrible, terrible team in a few years. ....

 

So, to hopefully avoid getting worse in the future we should be worse now? Getting worse would in fact help us bring in talent, via better draft position. We're not going to get worse and keep drafting in the middle.

 

You don't build a team via trades or UFAs. Or at least, opportunities to do so are few and far between. You need a foundation to build on, and you use trades and UFAs to tweak from there. It's likely we won't find that foundation until after Pav and Hank can't carry us anymore. And yeah, we'd likely be a pretty bad team in that event. Not sure why that's so much worse than being a bad team now...

 

But if we give up now, try to stock up on draft picks, it doesn't guarantee anything. At best, you maybe accelerate the rebuild by a year. But you lose the chance at maybe getting lucky again. Maybe someone in the system does break out and become our next star, or maybe we'll find some gem in the 20s, or maybe we'll see a bunch of our prospects all become pretty good and be like Boston with a ton of good players but no real stars. Maybe we will find a trade or UFA that can be a key piece. Maybe start rising back to the top without having to hit bottom or even lose the playoff streak.

 

If not, we're not really any worse off than we would be by blowing up the team. To me, the chance of something special (however small) is worth a few years of mediocrity. Some people seem to think that if we don't fix everything now, we won't ever be able to. But the reality is that not fixing anything is a pretty good way to get the resources to fix everything. Breaking whatever you do have can work as well, but not so much better to be worth it, in my opinion.



#144 Yak19

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:33 PM

Thank you's are in order for the Ducks and Nucks for keeping the Yotes and Oilers off of our backs if only for a night.



#145 Crymson

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:33 PM

Phoenix and Edmonton both lost tonight. There's a boost.



#146 SDavis35

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:55 PM

Thank you's are in order for the Ducks and Nucks for keeping the Yotes and Oilers off of our backs if only for a night.

 
Came by to say this  :thumbup:

 

pushes our playoff chances to ~65%



#147 evilmrt

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:07 AM

Thank you's are in order for the Ducks and Nucks for keeping the Yotes and Oilers off of our backs if only for a night.

 

When is the last time that we had to do this with the Wings? lol



#148 frankgrimes

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:01 AM

Holland should send out a  big present to the Canucks and Ducks for keeping the Oilers and Coyotes of the Wings heels.


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#149 blgillett

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:53 PM

Playoffs. Playoffs? Your talking playoffs. Playoffs
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#150 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:05 PM

Actually, that was in '09. In '08, Flip and Sammy were on the 2nd line with Franzen. Huds was on the 4th with Helm. Our third line was Cleary-Draper-Drake.

 

And what is embarassing is this fanbase's inability to handle adversity.

 

 

So, to hopefully avoid getting worse in the future we should be worse now? Getting worse would in fact help us bring in talent, via better draft position. We're not going to get worse and keep drafting in the middle.

 

You don't build a team via trades or UFAs. Or at least, opportunities to do so are few and far between. You need a foundation to build on, and you use trades and UFAs to tweak from there. It's likely we won't find that foundation until after Pav and Hank can't carry us anymore. And yeah, we'd likely be a pretty bad team in that event. Not sure why that's so much worse than being a bad team now...

 

But if we give up now, try to stock up on draft picks, it doesn't guarantee anything. At best, you maybe accelerate the rebuild by a year. But you lose the chance at maybe getting lucky again. Maybe someone in the system does break out and become our next star, or maybe we'll find some gem in the 20s, or maybe we'll see a bunch of our prospects all become pretty good and be like Boston with a ton of good players but no real stars. Maybe we will find a trade or UFA that can be a key piece. Maybe start rising back to the top without having to hit bottom or even lose the playoff streak.

 

If not, we're not really any worse off than we would be by blowing up the team. To me, the chance of something special (however small) is worth a few years of mediocrity. Some people seem to think that if we don't fix everything now, we won't ever be able to. But the reality is that not fixing anything is a pretty good way to get the resources to fix everything. Breaking whatever you do have can work as well, but not so much better to be worth it, in my opinion.

 

You're definitely right on the first part, I had that lineup wrong.  Thanks for the correction. 

 

As for the rest, I'm not necessarily sure that I need you to pontificate about handling adversity.  I don't think a losing sports team is any "adversity" at all.  It's a sport.  I do, however, watch sports to see the team win championships, if I wanted to see a team compete moderately successfully just for the sake of participation, I'd go watch High School sports.  We're talking about a professional sports team I pay good money to see win,  there are no participation trophies.  And when I see that team get further and further away from that goal with every passing season I begin to formulate theories to explain why.  Furthermore, when the same things are (or in this case aren't) being done to address the problem year after year, it becomes pretty obvious what a big part of the problem is. 

 

Injuries are a form of adversity.  Squandering talent and watching your team get less and less competitive is mismanagement.  One I can deal with, the other irritates me. 


Edited by kipwinger, 09 April 2013 - 03:05 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#151 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

Thank you's are in order for the Ducks and Nucks for keeping the Yotes and Oilers off of our backs if only for a night.

 

Ugh.  Thanking the Ducks and Canucks?  I feel unclean.



#152 GMRwings1983

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:37 PM

When was the last time all original 6 teams made the playoffs?

 

You gotta figure it'll be harder in the future, now that 4 of these teams will be playing in the same division, and only 4 can advance out of it.  


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#153 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:34 PM

Geesh, Columbus is beating up on San Jose pretty bad right now.  That's not good. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#154 RedWingsRox

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:54 PM

Geesh, Columbus is beating up on San Jose pretty bad right now.  That's not good. 

 I really hate having to watch the scoreboard of other teams if you know what I mean   :unhappy:   



#155 Richdg

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:07 PM

Glad to see them all coming to get a taste. Pro North American hockey is ery very different than Europe. Most will need 2- years to be ready, so the sooner we can get the clock going, the better.



Glad to see them all coming to get a taste. Pro North American hockey is ery very different than Europe. Most will need 2- years to be ready, so the sooner we can get the clock going, the better.

LOL not sure how this ended up here.........



#156 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

 I really hate having to watch the scoreboard of other teams if you know what I mean   :unhappy:   

 

Yeah for real.  Gaborik has a goal and an assist though, so that's good. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#157 kylee

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:20 PM

Geesh, Columbus is beating up on San Jose pretty bad right now.  That's not good. 

Not necessarily bad, either. If San Jose loses tonight, they will be even in games with Detroit, and only 4 points ahead of us.



#158 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

Not necessarily bad, either. If San Jose loses tonight, they will be even in games with Detroit, and only 4 points ahead of us.

 

True but it would put Columbus within two points of us, and we've got back to back tough games against San Jose and Chicago while they've got St. Louis and Minnesota.  That's an easier couple of games for them and they're playing much better than we are lately.  I'm not worried about the teams above, I'm worried about the ones below.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#159 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

Geesh, Columbus is beating up on San Jose pretty bad right now.  That's not good. 

But strangely satisfying.


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#160 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

Wow, that got bad quickly.  Thornton's line was benched for the majority of the third. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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