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wingedominance13

Nyquist thoughts

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Guest mjtm77   
Guest mjtm77

I didn't see the game last night (thank f---), did Babcock really play Abs on the first line? That's ridiculous

where have you been?

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Saying Nyquist isn't really NHL-ready is silly.

I think the big problem is...well I'll show you (since I love doing this so much):

Brunner

Datsyuk

Filppula

Franzen

Nyquist

Zetterberg

All of our high-end players are subtle variations on the same damn player. Practically our entire top six corps - I mean he guys who really do deserve to be in the pool (and I do count Nyquist among them) - is softish, smallish, Euro playmakers.

I think of Selanne. Is he really that good (and indeed, maye he is)...or does he benefit a whole lot from having a pack of bulldogs around him, creating space for him, wearing down the opposition for him? I feel Nyquist would do well in a similar situation.

So, what I'm saying is: NHL-ready, and potentially lethal...just not in Motown. Maybe.

We'll see. (Or we won't.)

I agree. Too many vanilla midgets on our top 6.

The biggest one is Franzen, and he doesn't play big at all.

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Nyquist has skill. His goal against Colorado and his assist the other night prove that. Something that concerns me, though, is that Mickey Redmond can't stop talking about Nyquist's lack of size. It's like every time Nyquist is on the ice, Mickey has to remind us all of how small the guy is.

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I feel like the last couple games Nyquist has been the only one with his motor going. He is consistently getting a significant scoring chance. While we have been struggling he has been the only refreshing thing to watch. Should he get moved to the top six or is he going to be most beneficial where he is?

He has a great shot and isn't shy about it. I like the way he and Andersson are looking.

How about a pure speed & energy line when/if Helm ever gets back: Nyquist-Helm-Tootoo that would overwhem any 3rd line in the league... speed, energy, great shooter, toughness and defense all great elements

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Nyquist has skill. His goal against Colorado and his assist the other night prove that. Something that concerns me, though, is that Mickey Redmond can't stop talking about Nyquist's lack of size. It's like every time Nyquist is on the ice, Mickey has to remind us all of how small the guy is.

 

I maybe the only one here that thinks this but Mickey Redmond sucks and needs to just retire. He also would hate on Brunner while riding Abby and Cleary's 30 game pointless streak or whatever it was. He is always bitching about something, and is 90% wrong, his schtick has gotten old.

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I can't believe I just read "is Selanne really that good?"

Bash on our "soft euros" all you want but good god...Selanne??? Dude was and still is a beast.

But...Selanne is a euro player and couldn't possibly succeed without being supported by north-american 'bulldogs'!

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I can't believe I just read "is Selanne really that good?"

Bash on our "soft euros" all you want but good god...Selanne??? Dude was and still is a beast.

Poor choice of words on my part.

Selanne has always been one of my favorite players. He is a beast. But playing on the Ducks helps a lot, for obvious reasons.

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But...Selanne is a euro player and couldn't possibly succeed without being supported by north-american 'bulldogs'!

Again, poor choice of words on my part.

Think of it this way: Would he be as dangerous as a Wing? Maybe. But, well, right off the bat - we know a puck-possession team is going to "take" much more than it "gives" (re: hits, creating space, wearing down the opposition, etc.) That's just how it works. And then, like I said, practically everyone in our top six is a smallish, softish, Euro playmaker. (Not that I have any problem with Euros, it just means things can and do get samey.) Selanne would have to endure more physical wear and tear, he'd have to make space for himself much of the time, and so on and so forth.

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I think you're misunderstanding me, I'm not knocking the guy. What I'm saying is that Nyquist, like Brunner, is a good player but who doesn't currently have the ability to create offense alone. There's a place on teams for guys like that, but to defend them, all you have to do is shut down the workhorse. By stopping Zetterberg you also stop Brunner. Same goes for Nyquist, he doesn't create offense himself, and therefore putting him with Datsyuk would do the same as putting Brunner with Z. Stop the main guy and you stop the other guy too.

Think about other good lines in hockey, or good players and you'll understand what I'm saying. Double team Ryan Getzlaf and see if Corey Perry doens't tear you up, or Bobby Ryan or whoever. They create offense all by themselves.

Nyquist is just young, that part of his game will develop, but it hasn't yet at the NHL level.

By having two guys on a line that can "do it themselves" when necessary, you open ice up for everyone because it becomes too dangerous to double team anyone and leave the other guy open. Right now nobody is afraid to leave Nyquist, Brunner, Franzen, Cleary or Abby open by double teaming Z or Dats. They figure "if the other guys can beat us then let them". Obviously they can't.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, they should put Tatar with Datsyuk. That kid has shown that he can, and will, beat you if you give him space and time. Nyquist, not so much.

i disagree. i think nyquist has the skill to quickly become one of those players. really he has already shown it as he has generated a lot of chances and even some goals with his own skill. compare that to players like franzen, cleary, abdelkader, who's only skill is standing around waiting for datsyuk to do all the work and give them a tap in goal that my grandma could finish off.

this organization has been TERRIBLE at putting players in a position to succeed. for years we will have a guy with potential and we leave him in the minors forever and then when they do get a chance, they play 8 minutes a night on the 4th line. sure, i understand that players have to 'earn' what they get, but how can you earn something when you are put in a position to fail?

nyquist, and others like tatar, if given the chance to play with datsyuk or zetterberg for more than a couple of shifts, could really show to be effective top 6 players in the nhl. that would allow them to grow as players and then become the type of player that can not just be part of the top 6, but be the leaders once datsyuk and zetterberg are gone.

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i disagree. i think nyquist has the skill to quickly become one of those players. really he has already shown it as he has generated a lot of chances and even some goals with his own skill. compare that to players like franzen, cleary, abdelkader, who's only skill is standing around waiting for datsyuk to do all the work and give them a tap in goal that my grandma could finish off.

this organization has been TERRIBLE at putting players in a position to succeed. for years we will have a guy with potential and we leave him in the minors forever and then when they do get a chance, they play 8 minutes a night on the 4th line. sure, i understand that players have to 'earn' what they get, but how can you earn something when you are put in a position to fail?

nyquist, and others like tatar, if given the chance to play with datsyuk or zetterberg for more than a couple of shifts, could really show to be effective top 6 players in the nhl. that would allow them to grow as players and then become the type of player that can not just be part of the top 6, but be the leaders once datsyuk and zetterberg are gone.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. We are terrible at putting players in a position to succeed. Certainly Nyquist is more skilled than most of our players. And definitely Franzen, Clearly, Abby, (and I'd add Filppula) don't create any offense either. What I'm saying is that whether Nyquist is in the lineup or not won't matter because our entire team is made up of guys who can't take a game over, minus Dats and Z.

If teams can stop them then we lose.

Look at last night. We played a horrible team, and yet got dominated for much of the game. We won (barely) because Datsyuk and Zetterberg rose to the occasion. Nyquist had a nice goal for sure, but our season hangs on whether D or Z can win a game for us. Hell even the s***ty Colorado announcers accurately spelled out our game plan. Late in the game they said, "Detroit is just looking to hang on until overtime and then put the game on Datsyuk and Zetterberg's shoulders", which is exactly what we did. I'm glad it worked out, but it won't against good team.

So, for the millionth time...Nyquist is a good player, maybe one day he'll be a game changer, but he's not right now and therefore having him in the top six or not will make no difference as far as how well this team performs this season.

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The guy has played completely different this time up..he has used his speed more which is his biggest asset He is playing like he doesnt want to go back to GR this time which is refreshing. Over handles the puck sometimes but so do other guys on this team. Hope he keeps it up

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I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. We are terrible at putting players in a position to succeed. Certainly Nyquist is more skilled than most of our players. And definitely Franzen, Clearly, Abby, (and I'd add Filppula) don't create any offense either. What I'm saying is that whether Nyquist is in the lineup or not won't matter because our entire team is made up of guys who can't take a game over, minus Dats and Z.

If teams can stop them then we lose.

Look at last night. We played a horrible team, and yet got dominated for much of the game. We won (barely) because Datsyuk and Zetterberg rose to the occasion. Nyquist had a nice goal for sure, but our season hangs on whether D or Z can win a game for us. Hell even the s***ty Colorado announcers accurately spelled out our game plan. Late in the game they said, "Detroit is just looking to hang on until overtime and then put the game on Datsyuk and Zetterberg's shoulders", which is exactly what we did. I'm glad it worked out, but it won't against good team.

So, for the millionth time...Nyquist is a good player, maybe one day he'll be a game changer, but he's not right now and therefore having him in the top six or not will make no difference as far as how well this team performs this season.

excellent response.

i do think having him in the top 6 this year would make it more effective. i think datsyuk would benefit from having another creative offensive player on his line. and the reason why is exactly what you are saying; if you shut down datsyuk that first line is terrible. neither of the other players step up. i think nyquist is young and creative enough to take the extra space given from everyone focusing on pavel, and do something with it.

and the added benefit is getting him in the top 6 will make him a better player down the road which benefits the team in the long run. so i guess, even if its a wash this season, it would still be worth it to get him in there and not waste another year of development. heck, think back to last year, he played pretty well down the stretch and all the talk in the offseason was how there was no chance he would be in grand rapids... but yet this year has been mostly wasted with misuse.

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^ I don't think he's being misused. Sure he's spent most of the year in GR, but it hasn't hurt his development or the organization.

Think about it. Has Nyquist look like a poorly developed prospect? Also, he's dominated the AHL and is a big reason why GR have done so well this year, and now he's here helping the big club. Double win IMO.

Seems like they've actually done well with bringing Goose along.

This is me being positive and optimistic. But whatevs.

Edited by rick zombo

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^ I don't think he's being misused. Sure he's spent most of the year in GR, but it hasn't hurt his development or the organization.

Think about it. Has Nyquist look like a poorly developed prospect? Also, he's dominated the AHL and is a big reason why GR have done so well this year, and now he's here helping the big club. Double win IMO.

Seems like they've actually done well with bringing Goose along.

This is me being positive and optimistic. But whatevs.

That would imply Holland and Babcock know what they are doing, but thats impossible.... or is it?

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Has a chance to be a real solid playmaker, I think. Don't see him getting a full-time spot next year, unless Bert/Sammy are injured (likely) or bought out (less likely). I'm really liking the way he's using his speed, though, as a few of you have already mentioned. Real good hands, too.

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^ I don't think he's being misused. Sure he's spent most of the year in GR, but it hasn't hurt his development or the organization.

Think about it. Has Nyquist look like a poorly developed prospect? Also, he's dominated the AHL and is a big reason why GR have done so well this year, and now he's here helping the big club. Double win IMO.

Seems like they've actually done well with bringing Goose along.

This is me being positive and optimistic. But whatevs.

another reasonable response.

however, had we not had extremely bad luck with injuries, nyquist would have probably never saw nhl ice this year.

i know its a cop out to play the what if game, but i do feel this is a situation that it applies. there were once again a ton of guys on 1 way deals and nyquist had to go down because he had waiver exemption.

having been an ahl fan for many years and a former season ticket holder, i have seen many times where guys stagnate in the ahl because they were there too long. even though they dominate, there isnt much to be gained after a while. has that for sure happened here? we don't know for sure either way yet. i just worry it is yet another example of it happening to wings prospects.

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