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Thinking on 2013/14 roster.


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#41 Richdg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:58 AM

Last guy to talk about today is Franzen. Who is the Mule? He is a 33 year old 6-3/225 LH shooting forward. Can play all 3 spots. he averages 26 goals every 82 games played for his career. He is a 1 hit per game guy. I am going to compare him to C's-position of need. Who are the under 30 C's in the league that put up equal or better numbers?

 

UFA's:

 

none. weak class.

 

Others:

 

David Backus STL. 28 years old 6-3/225. He averages 22 goals per 82 games and is a 3 hit per game guy.

 

Jordan Staal Car. 24 years old. 6-4/220. He averages 23 goals per 82 games and is a 3 hits per game guy.

 

Martin Hanzal Pho. 26 years old. 6-6/236. He averages 14 goals per 82 games, but that is starting to trend upwards. he is also a 2 hits per game guy.

 

Anze Kopitar LAK. 25 years old. 6-3/225. He averages 28 goals per 82 games. he is a 1.5 hits per game player.

 

Jamie Benn Dal. 23 years old. 6-2/205. He averages 25 goals per 82 games and is good for 1.5 hits per game.

 

Patrick Berglund Stl. 24 years old 6-3/220. He averages 22 goals per 82 games played. he is good for 1 hit per game.

 

That is once again getting close to the bottom of the pit. The others are over 30, don't score or don't hit.



#42 Richdg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:08 AM

Now, after all of that, there were/are 20 players in the NHL that are equal to or better than the 3 we need to replace, and are under 30. There were/are a few more that I didn't include. Guy like Perry and getzlaf-they just resigned and can't be moved. Of course not all 20 of the guys I listed are available, and in most cases would be expensive to get. But we need to find the way.

 

Between Bert, Sammy, and Franzen, they average 6-2.75/223 in size, and for their careers they combine to produce 67 goals over every 82 games. They combine to average out to 4 hits per game as well.



#43 loutswings

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

I am ready to part ways with Bert. The guy is never healthy!

#44 DSM

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

Oh Boy. Most of the players you have named as potential replacements for Bertuzzi, Franzen and Samuelsson won't be attainable without severe overpayment.

 

I don't think Holland will make any significant moves this summer, except maybe a UFA to possibly replace Filppula if he walks for more money. I also doubt he will use any amnesty buyouts. Someone pointed out the buyouts of McCarty, Hatcher and Whitney in comparison, but that situation was much different. The Red Wings HAD to shed some salary to get under the newly imposed salary cap, and cutting the contracts of an overpayed oft injured bottom 6 forward, an expensive dman who had missed lots of time, and a top 6 forward who didn't make much of an impact were necessary moves.

 

The only possible buyout I can see could maybe be Colaiacovo if they don't see him as being in the top 5 of their dmen. However, they could probably get a return for him in a trade if they put him on the market in the offseason.



#45 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:04 PM

Jurco on the 1st line : not ready yet
Lashoff top 2 : never gonna happen
T-Z-B line : too small

No toughness at all... Let's not forget that the next saison we are in east conf. which means we are going to play Boston, Philly, Rags, Pens, Leafs... physical teams.


Im gonna take a wild guess and say that Jurco on the top line with Dats is so he can learn from him. The hands Jurco has he could be a lot like Dats.

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#46 poel

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:25 PM

Jurco on the 1st line : not ready yet
Lashoff top 2 : never gonna happen
T-Z-B line : too small

No toughness at all... Let's not forget that the next saison we are in east conf. which means we are going to play Boston, Philly, Rags, Pens, Leafs... physical teams.

 

Enough guys who can play tough. When you're rebuilding, you can't have anything und you will may not reach the playoffs. We're definitely NOT rebuilding at the moment (no matter what Holland tells us) and we will not making the playoffs, too.

I simply don't like guys who are only usable for the dirty work. Skillful guys like Kronwall, Lash, Smith, Kindl, Bert or Cleary have a lot of size and they will play harder if it's demanded. Franzen is a heavy guy but he's not working with his size. I prefer powerforwards like Helm, Emmerton, Miller or Eaves. They also cost a lot less.

Tatar and Brunner may not bring size but they're both driving hard to the net. Specially Tatar proved that he's willing to play hard. Even Zetterberg can play a lot harder if necessary and he's size is at least not bad. Brunner also can play very very hard. Hard enough to destroy Colaiacovo :lol:. I really like the topline of the canucks. Burrows and the Sedins aren't big guys but they're working very hard and score a lot of big goals.

Lash never in the top2? Well, he was already there and played big minutes with the Kronwall. He did very well and I don't understand why he got replaced by Ericsson. He played 2,3 awesome passes but that's it. Can not be used at the blue line, Quincey can't as well. Though they earn more than 3 Mio. I'm pretty sure the youth can do better and we have a lot of young defenders in the organization who proved that they're ready to play big minutes in the NHL.

 

 

Im gonna take a wild guess and say that Jurco on the top line with Dats is so he can learn from him. The hands Jurco has he could be a lot like Dats.

 

Sure. And despite everything he's a very hard working guy. Plus he's a lot faster than for example Sheahan is. He's one of the biggest in the organization had some really good games with Grand Rapids during the last weeks. Should be tested during in 13/14 for sure.


Edited by poel, 08 April 2013 - 05:28 PM.


#47 larionov_8

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:19 PM

Are teams able to "bury guys in the minors" under the new CBA, ala Redden and others, so that their salary does not count against the cap?

If so it would give the Wings an option to shed some of these guys they don't necessarily have roster room for. Seems like that might be preferable to buying out guys who only have one year on their contracts (e.g. Coloaiacovo, Gustavson, Eaves, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi.). Assuming guys are exposed to waivers, they could either be claimed or sent down to play out the remainder of their contracts.

If this is the alternative, the guys who might be subject to an amnesty buyout might actually perceive it as "classy" treatment by the organization. 

Anyone informed on the rules here? I think it would have a major impact on how DET and many teams approach their player salaries for next season.



#48 Dimaline312000

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

Does anyone know if the cap is going to go Up, Down or Stay the Same for Next season? If it goes up that may help us keep a lot of our depth but be able to go after a solid UFA. There really is no-one that I'm drooling about getting as I don't believe we needs something HUGE we do need someone(s) Big that can help us but not somoene we will have to over-pay for to get. I really would prefer to keep our younger players and get them developed even more. I think that should be our biggest concern especially on D. So many of the kids are still learning and making those rookie mistakes but if we can take the time to keep them on the roster and help them get better that will help the entire team.

 

To be perfectly honest I would mind parting ways with Sammy, Eaves, and Bert but not sure about contracts and if that's even a possibility for this off-season. Personally I would almost rather see us trade away a few mediocore players to try and get a higher draft pick or more Early Round Picks so we can add to our depth but they will be players that we don't have to take forever to develop that can help us within 2-3 years max. Unless we really spend some money this summer to go after a big name or two the draft might be a good option.

 

I think if we want to have a real chance at a Cup again soon we really are going to have to go after a big-name or names this summer to really make a solid push otherwise it's going to be a waiting game to build towards it year by year with developing our younger players and finding the right veterans to help them along the way. I hate to say it but I think we are at that point where we as Wings fans are going to have to wait for a while before we see Lord Stanley back in Detroit. I hope I'm wrong and we can get another one soon but every team has to go through their building or rebuilding phase and we have seen a bunch of our former players that have won us our 4 Cups in 11 years retire. I'm still optimistic we'll make the playoffs this season but who knows. I just wanna see another Parade some time soon.



#49 cupforwings

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:09 PM

I think you have to resign Filppula.  He is arguably the best free agent available this year.  I can see the lines looking something like this.

 

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi/Jagar/Morrow

Franzen-Zetterberg-Flip

Tatar-Helm-Andersson

Emerton-Abdelkadar-Tootoo/eaves/milller

 

Kronwall-Ericsson

Dekeyser-Kindl

Smith-Quincey

Colo

Lashoff

 

Howard

Gus

 

This a pretty solid lineup.  However, I think Bert might be gone as well.  So replace him through a trade for a young forward or a UFA.


Edited by cupforwings, 08 April 2013 - 07:09 PM.


#50 Buppy

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:34 PM

Are teams able to "bury guys in the minors" under the new CBA, ala Redden and others, so that their salary does not count against the cap?

If so it would give the Wings an option to shed some of these guys they don't necessarily have roster room for. Seems like that might be preferable to buying out guys who only have one year on their contracts (e.g. Coloaiacovo, Gustavson, Eaves, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi.). Assuming guys are exposed to waivers, they could either be claimed or sent down to play out the remainder of their contracts.

If this is the alternative, the guys who might be subject to an amnesty buyout might actually perceive it as "classy" treatment by the organization. 

Anyone informed on the rules here? I think it would have a major impact on how DET and many teams approach their player salaries for next season.

You can get some slight cap relief burying players. Anything over $925,000 (I think...something in that range at least) still counts towards the cap.

 

However, Bert and Sammy are both on 35+ contracts, so we take their full hit regardless of where (or even if) they play. Amnesty buyout is the only way to get rid of it. (Barring a trade that is.)



#51 ogreslayer

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:33 PM

Does anyone know if the cap is going to go Up, Down or Stay the Same for Next season? If it goes up that may help us keep a lot of our depth but be able to go after a solid UFA. There really is no-one that I'm drooling about getting as I don't believe we needs something HUGE we do need someone(s) Big that can help us but not somoene we will have to over-pay for to get. I really would prefer to keep our younger players and get them developed even more. I think that should be our biggest concern especially on D. So many of the kids are still learning and making those rookie mistakes but if we can take the time to keep them on the roster and help them get better that will help the entire team.

The cap drops from $70.2m to $64.3m next season.  As of right now, the Wings have projected cap space of roughly $17.2m to spend with 18 players on the roster.  In house UFAs are Howard, Brunner, Filppula, Cleary, Miller, & White.  RFAs are Andersson, Nyquist, Kindl, & Smith.



#52 Richdg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:36 PM

If bert i on the LTIR his salary doesn't count. Other than that all other ways do. Even if a guy retires. But bert's 2 million/1 year left isn't really a problem. Nor is sammy's 3 million/1 year left. The real problems are yet to be seen: the long term deals to franzen, Z, and kronwall. Their caps are here for 7/8 more years. A time when all will be 40+ years old. Between the 3 of them it is almost 15 million per year. So if all 3 retire after say 4 or 5 years, we will be wasting 15 million per year for a couple of years. but that is down the road a bit.



#53 hooon

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:38 PM

I think you have to resign Filppula.  He is arguably the best free agent available this year.  I can see the lines looking something like this.

 

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi/Jagar/Morrow

Franzen-Zetterberg-Flip

Tatar-Helm-Andersson

Emerton-Abdelkadar-Tootoo/eaves/milller

 

Kronwall-Ericsson

Dekeyser-Kindl

Smith-Quincey

Colo

Lashoff

 

Howard

Gus

 

This a pretty solid lineup.  However, I think Bert might be gone as well.  So replace him through a trade for a young forward or a UFA.

 

We let Brunner walk?

 

I hope not.


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#54 Richdg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:50 PM

The last position of want is a RH shooting Dman. Signing one would allow a guy like Ericsson to be moved. Right now we have 8 Dmen signed for next season: Kronwall, Quincey, Ericsson, Colaviaco, Dekeyser, Kindl, Smith, and Lashoff. All are LHed. yes Quincey should be moved, but he is not a guy that is going to bring a big return. Ericsson however is. Between the 2, they make 7 million per year, and both are UFA's in another year or so. if both are moved we need another Dman. keep Cola as the 7th and use kronwall and the 4 kids in your top 6. After this season Cola leaves as a UFA and more kids are ready at GR: Nicastro and maybe Sproul. So the farm system is ready to replace departures.

All that being said, there are 2 UFA Dman that are of interest.

Anton babcuk (spelling) of Calgary. he is 28, 6-5/200 and a RH shooter.

Bobby Sanguinetti of Car. is the other one. he is 25, 6-3/190 shoots RHed.

Of the 2, I like Sanguinetti. He is averaging 1.5 hits per game this year and does have some offensive skill. I would think a 5 year 15 million contract would get him. if were able to land him,we would have a D that looks like this:

Kronwall-Kindl

Smith (offensive)-Dekeyser (defensive)

Lashoff-sanguinetti

Colavaico

 

Then like I mentioned, next summer you let Cola walk and replace him with Nicastro. Summer of 2015 if Sproul is ready, then another player can be moved for more help somewhere else.



#55 Richdg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

So, now let's fast forward to June 30th. Draft is done and UFA season is about to begin. We have resigned Howard, Brunner, Smith, Kindl, and Nyquist. We have bought out Sammy and put bert on LTIR. We are setting aside Ericsson, Quincey, Franzen, and helm for possible trades. if we do that we have 4 openings: 1 LW, 1 C, 1 RW, 1 Dman, and 20.6 million to spend, once trades are made. This would be our pre UFA/trade lineup:

 

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
trade UFA ($0.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / trade UFA ($0.000m)
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / trade UFA ($0.000m) / Damien Brunner ($3.000m)
Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.000m)
Riley Sheahan ($0.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($1.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.500m)
Brendan Smith ($1.500m) / trade UFA ($0.000m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.000m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.625m)
Buyout: Johan Franzen ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.142% of upper limit)
Darren Helm ($0.021m—1.0%) Kyle Quincey ($0.038m—1.0%) Jonathan Ericsson ($0.033m—1.0%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $44,658,171; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): $20,651,829

 

Franze is listed under the buyouts due to capgeek. if we can't move him, then buy him out if need to, or keep him untill next summer.

Now we have some pieces to move and improve the team. package 1 centered around Ericsson. Package 2 centered around Helm. Package 3 centered around Franzen/Quincey.


Edited by Richdg, 08 April 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#56 Richdg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:08 PM

Last thought for tonight. Let's say we can't move Franzen and we plug him back in on the top line at LW. Then the planets align correctly and we sign sanguinetti at 3 million per. That leaves us with 2 holes to fill: C and RW, and we have 13.7 million left under the cap. We now have 2 packages to use for trades. package 1 is Ericsson and tatar and package 2 is helm and Quincey. Others like Almquivst and McCollum can be included if need be. Those 2 packages should be able to find us a quality RW and C, while leaving some cap room left over for 2014 when datsyuk, eaves, Gus, and Cola also leave.



#57 cupforwings

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:13 AM

We let Brunner walk?

 

I hope not.

Ah good call.  Forgot him.



#58 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:03 AM

The cap drops from $70.2m to $64.3m next season.  As of right now, the Wings have projected cap space of roughly $17.2m to spend with 18 players on the roster.  In house UFAs are Howard, Brunner, Filppula, Cleary, Miller, & White.  RFAs are Andersson, Nyquist, Kindl, & Smith.

 Let Cleary, Miller and White walk.

 

Howard $4.8 mil

Brunner $2.5 mil

Filppula $4.25 mil

Andersson $1 mil

Nyquist $1.7 mil

Kindl $ 2.5 mil

Smith $1.5 mil

 

These are what I think are realistic projections.  Out of the $17.2 mil left over, that's $18.25, so I'm not sure how Kenny's gonna sign all of these guys under the cap and not lose any of the guys on that list which will be getting raises.  And I did not give Flip $5 mil, and Howard just under.  Once again, this is why I wish only 1 year deals were given to Sammy, Bert, Quincey and the likes of which are taking up the kids roster spots and tightening the noose on spending for a UFA this summer, of whom would need a roster spot anyways.


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#59 ogreslayer

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:59 AM

 Let Cleary, Miller and White walk.

 

Howard $4.8 mil

Brunner $2.5 mil

Filppula $4.25 mil

Andersson $1 mil

Nyquist $1.7 mil

Kindl $ 2.5 mil

Smith $1.5 mil

 

These are what I think are realistic projections.  Out of the $17.2 mil left over, that's $18.25, so I'm not sure how Kenny's gonna sign all of these guys under the cap and not lose any of the guys on that list which will be getting raises.  And I did not give Flip $5 mil, and Howard just under.  Once again, this is why I wish only 1 year deals were given to Sammy, Bert, Quincey and the likes of which are taking up the kids roster spots and tightening the noose on spending for a UFA this summer, of whom would need a roster spot anyways.

 

And that's why Kenny will use those two amnesty buyouts.  I think they'll be Sammy & Cola which frees up $5.5m.  Doubt it would be Q instead of Cola but that would be $6.775m that way. 



#60 Buppy

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

If bert i on the LTIR his salary doesn't count. Other than that all other ways do. Even if a guy retires. But bert's 2 million/1 year left isn't really a problem. Nor is sammy's 3 million/1 year left. The real problems are yet to be seen: the long term deals to franzen, Z, and kronwall. Their caps are here for 7/8 more years. A time when all will be 40+ years old. Between the 3 of them it is almost 15 million per year. So if all 3 retire after say 4 or 5 years, we will be wasting 15 million per year for a couple of years. but that is down the road a bit.

Actually, it would depnd on when they retire. If they were all to retire after 4 years, the cap penalty would be about $8M for a couple years, then around $5.7M for a year, and about $3M for the last year.

 

The recapture penalties actually get worse the closer to the end of the deal the player is when they retire. A team is penalized for any season where the cap hit is lower than actual salary, but no benefit for any years where the cap hit is higher. A team then has to "pay back" the advantage penalty over however many years were left on the deal. If a player were to retire late enough in the deal, the cap hit could actually go up (though I'd assume at that point, a team would just bury a player rather than let them officially retire).

 

If Kovalchuk were to retire with one year left on his deal, the cap penalty would be $27.3M. :)







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