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Thinking on 2013/14 roster.


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#61 StormJH1

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:40 AM

And that's why Kenny will use those two amnesty buyouts.  I think they'll be Sammy & Cola which frees up $5.5m.  Doubt it would be Q instead of Cola but that would be $6.775m that way. 

 

I really don't know what's going to happen but if we have to use the amenesty buyouts on two guys just acquired last offseason...Yikes.  The purpose of the amnesty buyouts (and, IMO, their best use) is to get out from underneath some of these killer long-term deals that looked like a good idea under the 2005 CBA, but now appear like long-term burdens.  The one guy that really strikes me as an amnesty candidate is Mule.  On the one hand, his contract is a backdiver, such that his cap hit isn't horrible.  On the other hand, he's hurt a lot, and he's kind drifted into that Dany Heatley role of the guy who can maybe score 20 goals for you, but really can't be depended on as a top-line scorer.  And we have a LONG way left to go on that deal (2020).  His cap hit, while not gigantic, is still considerably higher than Coliacovo or Sammy, and will bruden us for much longer.



#62 Richdg

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:59 AM

Of course for Helm to have trade value, he has to be healthy and playing. But he isn't. This is why trying to find ways to improve this team are tricky. bert, sammy, cola, and q just don't have much value via trades. But most/all sould be replaced.



#63 matemate

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:32 PM

Tatar - Datsyuk - Nyqvist

Flippula - Zetterberg - Franzen

Andersson - Helm - Sheahan

Tootoo - Emmerton - Ferraro

 

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

Kindl - Cola

Smith - Dekeyser

 

 

I dont like Brunner. Floater. Soft.



#64 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:04 PM

And that's why Kenny will use those two amnesty buyouts.  I think they'll be Sammy & Cola which frees up $5.5m.  Doubt it would be Q instead of Cola but that would be $6.775m that way. 

 Once again why I with those 3 to name a few were offered 1 year deals.  But anyways, I hope you're right.  Sammy and Colo have been injured the whole year basically and Colo has been mediocre when he has played.  Quincey, we could at least hope to trade to a team like the Oilers or Islanders who are beyond pathetic on D.



Of course for Helm to have trade value, he has to be healthy and playing. But he isn't. This is why trying to find ways to improve this team are tricky. bert, sammy, cola, and q just don't have much value via trades. But most/all sould be replaced.

 A way to improve this team is to have a healthy Helm on the team and in no way traded.  He's our 3rd/4th line centre until he retires a Wing.



Tatar - Datsyuk - Nyqvist

Flippula - Zetterberg - Franzen

Andersson - Helm - Sheahan

Tootoo - Emmerton - Ferraro

 

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

Kindl - Cola

Smith - Dekeyser

 

 

I dont like Brunner. Floater. Soft.

 How many games have you watched this year?  Dude hustles as a constant.  He's not so tough, but as I stated in a different thread, he's in his 1st NHL season against big competition and he'll benefit from a summer in an NHL weight room.  I wouldn't cast him aside.  He'll be retained over Emmerton for sure and would get a spot well above Ferraro and even Sheahan.


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#65 Richdg

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

 Once again why I with those 3 to name a few were offered 1 year deals.  But anyways, I hope you're right.  Sammy and Colo have been injured the whole year basically and Colo has been mediocre when he has played.  Quincey, we could at least hope to trade to a team like the Oilers or Islanders who are beyond pathetic on D.



 A way to improve this team is to have a healthy Helm on the team and in no way traded.  He's our 3rd/4th line centre until he retires a Wing.



 How many games have you watched this year?  Dude hustles as a constant.  He's not so tough, but as I stated in a different thread, he's in his 1st NHL season against big competition and he'll benefit from a summer in an NHL weight room.  I wouldn't cast him aside.  He'll be retained over Emmerton for sure and would get a spot well above Ferraro and even Sheahan.

How does he improve our scoring? he doesn't. helm is a great defensive C. Our D is fine overall, and will only get better as the young Dmen mature. helm is not now nor will he ever be a guy that scores 20+ goals a season. That is what we need badly. Again, to get quality, you have to give quality. Its not like the RW are short on checkers. We have those. it is scorers that we lack and size/grit that we lack. helm is none of those.



#66 hooon

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:44 PM

How does he improve our scoring? he doesn't. helm is a great defensive C. Our D is fine overall, and will only get better as the young Dmen mature. helm is not now nor will he ever be a guy that scores 20+ goals a season. That is what we need badly. Again, to get quality, you have to give quality. Its not like the RW are short on checkers. We have those. it is scorers that we lack and size/grit that we lack. helm is none of those.

 

Wow, you are severely overlooking what Helm brings to the team. 

 

Scoring is not everything in this league, ESPECIALLY for a 3rd/4th line center who is the most integral part of the PK on the entire team. How many teams have 20 goal scorers for their 3rd line center? Those are very unrealistic expectations for a guy who is essentially the new Draper. (Draper hit 20 goals one time in his career, did that make him not valuable to the team?)

 

Helm will NEVER get traded, as he shouldn't. He holds faaar more value to this team than he would garner in a trade. 


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#67 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:55 PM

Trade Helm huh?  The guy won't even trade a prospect or a pick, and he's going to trade Helm now?  I don't see it. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#68 RedWingCraig

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:01 PM

They better not give Val 5 mil a season



#69 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:05 PM

Best case scenario they extend Filppula and/or Jimmy for one year until the cap goes back up and then give them their paydays.  But at this point you've pretty much got to re-sign Filppula no matter what.  If our top six going into next season is any combination of the guys we've got right now, without Filppula, we're in real bad shape. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#70 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

Best case scenario they extend Filppula and/or Jimmy for one year until the cap goes back up and then give them their paydays.  But at this point you've pretty much got to re-sign Filppula no matter what.  If our top six going into next season is any combination of the guys we've got right now, without Filppula, we're in real bad shape. 

 

They still may be able to give them their paydays, just not the way they used to through longer backdiving contracts. 

 

The new CBA has restrictions preventing that but there's no (or at least very liberal) restrictions on pay increases at the front end.  So I could see a 7 year term where it's below value to help squeak under the cap the next couple seasons, then takes a significant jump up for the rest of it. 



#71 ogreslayer

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:11 PM

I really don't know what's going to happen but if we have to use the amenesty buyouts on two guys just acquired last offseason...Yikes.  The purpose of the amnesty buyouts (and, IMO, their best use) is to get out from underneath some of these killer long-term deals that looked like a good idea under the 2005 CBA, but now appear like long-term burdens.  The one guy that really strikes me as an amnesty candidate is Mule.  On the one hand, his contract is a backdiver, such that his cap hit isn't horrible.  On the other hand, he's hurt a lot, and he's kind drifted into that Dany Heatley role of the guy who can maybe score 20 goals for you, but really can't be depended on as a top-line scorer.  And we have a LONG way left to go on that deal (2020).  His cap hit, while not gigantic, is still considerably higher than Coliacovo or Sammy, and will bruden us for much longer.

 

See Hatcher, Darian and Whitney, Ray after the 2004-05 lockout



#72 kipwinger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:16 PM

They still may be able to give them their paydays, just not the way they used to through longer backdiving contracts. 

 

The new CBA has restrictions preventing that but there's no (or at least very liberal) restrictions on pay increases at the front end.  So I could see a 7 year term where it's below value to help squeak under the cap the next couple seasons, then takes a significant jump up for the rest of it. 

 

Yeah that's a good point, I hadn't thought about it.  Either way I think he gets signed, and I think the eventual cap hit will be somewhere in the 4.5-4.75 million range.  Which isn't bad considering his versatility and (sad as it is to say) value to a team which might very soon find itself with worse top six issues than it has now. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#73 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:54 PM

If Filppula is really looking for around $5 mil, he can walk. 14 points in 32 games? See ya.

Cleary has had a solid career since coming here after the lockout, but he is no longer effective. 12 points in 39 games. We need to start getting younger. Cleary needs to go.

Bertuzzi and Samuelsson need to go. Both are extremely injury-prone. We need to get younger.
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#74 Richdg

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

Wow, you are severely overlooking what Helm brings to the team. 

 

Scoring is not everything in this league, ESPECIALLY for a 3rd/4th line center who is the most integral part of the PK on the entire team. How many teams have 20 goal scorers for their 3rd line center? Those are very unrealistic expectations for a guy who is essentially the new Draper. (Draper hit 20 goals one time in his career, did that make him not valuable to the team?)

 

Helm will NEVER get traded, as he shouldn't. He holds faaar more value to this team than he would garner in a trade. 

worrying about the 3rd line C, when we have other options, when we don't have 1st and 2nd line wingers is kinda the cart before the horse. We simply don't have anyone that can score 20+ goals other than Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Which is why we are struggling this year and into the future.

 

As of today,the RW are 21st in goals scored and 13th in goals allowed. yes Helm can help the second, but he doesn't help the first.


Edited by Richdg, 09 April 2013 - 08:22 PM.


#75 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:05 PM

How does he improve our scoring? he doesn't. helm is a great defensive C. Our D is fine overall, and will only get better as the young Dmen mature. helm is not now nor will he ever be a guy that scores 20+ goals a season. That is what we need badly. Again, to get quality, you have to give quality. Its not like the RW are short on checkers. We have those. it is scorers that we lack and size/grit that we lack. helm is none of those.

Helm is the best checker we have, top 3 fastest skater in the NHL, and he has the potential to be a 20 goal scorer but he's been in a checking role his whole career.  Make him the 2nd line centre and he pots 20 guaranteed.  He also gets the Wings team momentum when everyone else is playing like garbage and can't get anything going.  That's one of the ways he improves our scoring.  Also, when teams have to chase him around and get tired it opens up more chances for our top lines jumping on to attack a dead line.  It happens a lot after a Helm shift.


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#76 cupforwings

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:15 PM

They better not give Val 5 mil a season

You are not going to find somebody better then Fil in free agency.  We need to keep him.



#77 Richdg

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:00 AM

Helm is the best checker we have, top 3 fastest skater in the NHL, and he has the potential to be a 20 goal scorer but he's been in a checking role his whole career.  Make him the 2nd line centre and he pots 20 guaranteed.  He also gets the Wings team momentum when everyone else is playing like garbage and can't get anything going.  That's one of the ways he improves our scoring.  Also, when teams have to chase him around and get tired it opens up more chances for our top lines jumping on to attack a dead line.  It happens a lot after a Helm shift.

With all due respect, never going to happen. he isn't a scorer. Not now nor ever. he has never scored 20+ goals at the pro level-minors or NHL, and never will. As you said earlier, he is Draper 2.0, which is great! But would I have trade Draper for Shanny? Hell yes. Twice on Sunday's. Would I trade a 26 year old Helm (if Healthy) for a 26 year old Ryan? Without a second thought. Now that of course is an example, but you get the point.

I understand that EVERYONE has their favorite players. Normal thing for fans. But our favorite players are not doing very well as a team. My favorite TEAM needs to be fighting for Cups, not fighting to just make the playoffs. Under that context, no one is untouchable. Anyone can be moved in the right deal.



#78 The Axe

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:24 AM

They better not give Val 5 mil a season


Holland should let Val and Jimmy walk and pick up a sniper, but he won't. Val will get 4.5 for 4 years and Jimmy will get 5 for 4 years. 9.5 mil spent on what we don't need.

#79 poel

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:44 AM

Holland should let Val and Jimmy walk and pick up a sniper, but he won't. Val will get 4.5 for 4 years and Jimmy will get 5 for 4 years. 9.5 mil spent on what we don't need.

 

Seriously? Mrazek is not ready to be a Nr.1 in die NHL and Gus is much too inconsistently for an NHL Goalie. And you definitely won't find a better goalie than Howie for next season.

Howie's playing very good and he has the right to receive a better offer from Holland.


Edited by poel, 10 April 2013 - 10:47 AM.


#80 VM1138

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:57 AM

We need Howard, and he's good for the money.  Flip on the other hand...he may get his pay-day simply because we don't have a lot of other options, but a contract for him would really burden this team.


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