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#1 Nevermind

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

Either Datsyuk or Zetterberg (or both) have scored a point on nearly 60% of our goals so far this season. To be exact, it's 57 goals out of 99 total.

 

"I like our depth."


Edited by Nevermind, 07 April 2013 - 08:32 PM.


#2 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:36 PM

I'd like to see the same percentages from Crosby/Malkin or Toews/Kane before saying this is a depth problem. Something to compare it to against the highest tier teams in the league.


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#3 vladdy16

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:38 PM

Interesting point, but this would fit well in one of at least 3 other threads.


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#4 jollymania

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:47 PM

Either Datsyuk or Zetterberg (or both) have scored a point on nearly 60% of our goals so far this season. To be exact, it's 57 goals out of 99 total.

 

"I like our depth."

We don't have great scoring depth but our bottom 6 solid, could use some more physical players but guys like miller and andersson are proving to be gems. It is our top lines that are underachieving whether it be Franzen or Filppula simply not producing points or samuelsson and bert constantly injured.


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#5 Carman

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

Having two .50 PPG players out for such a long time hurts quite a bit too.


Edited by Carman, 07 April 2013 - 09:51 PM.


#6 GMRwings1983

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:54 PM

I thought this thread was about our chances of making the playoffs.  


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#7 Shaman

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:59 PM

Having two .50 PPG players out for such a long time hurts quite a bit too.

Two .50 ppg declining, oft injured players out. I'd rather see Tatar and Nyquist up full time than either of them ever come back.

 

As for that stat, I'd be more worried that of all the playoff teams this team has been scored on more than any other team in the top 8, and is only behind the Sharks for lowest goals for.


Edited by Shaman464, 07 April 2013 - 10:00 PM.

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#8 FireCaptain

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:24 AM

No, silly. 57.6  is much too high of a percentage for that. ;)

 

http://www.sportsclu...al/Detroit.html

 

 

 

I thought this thread was about our chances of making the playoffs.  


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#9 toby91_ca

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

Very difficult to look at that in isolation and consider there to be some sort of depth problem.  Think about it this way: Datsyuk is on the 1st line, Zetterberg is on the second line....so, the 1st and 2nd line are combining for 57% of the scoring....so 43% for the 3rd and 4th lines.   Looking at it that way makes the percentage look really good from a depth perspective.

 

I know you can't look at like that, just pointing out that it is not that simple just to look at the stat the way it has been done in this thread either.



#10 Motown4013

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:34 AM

You have to examine ice time, special teams and whatnot as well. Z, Pavel, Mule ect play on PP. Miller, Eaves, Toots, Emdog never get opportunistic goals- they are usually trying to prevent them. Hard to score when the top two line are getting 22 minutes a night and other guys get 6, 8 or 10. Just sayin'


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#11 Johnz96

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:51 AM

Having two .50 PPG players out for such a long time hurts quite a bit too.

Having our 3rd and 4th best forwards toiling in the minors for most of the season and giving them very little ice-time with the Wings when they're up hurts even more.



Very difficult to look at that in isolation and consider there to be some sort of depth problem.  Think about it this way: Datsyuk is on the 1st line, Zetterberg is on the second line....so, the 1st and 2nd line are combining for 57% of the scoring....so 43% for the 3rd and 4th lines.   Looking at it that way makes the percentage look really good from a depth perspective.

 

I know you can't look at like that, just pointing out that it is not that simple just to look at the stat the way it has been done in this thread either.

You're not very good at math just because Datsyuk and Zetterberg account for 57% of the scoring doesn't mean the entire top 2 lines account for 57% of the scoring there are 4 other guys on the top 2 lines that score points even when Datsyuk and Zetterberg don't.



#12 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:38 AM

You have to examine ice time, special teams and whatnot as well. Z, Pavel, Mule ect play on PP. Miller, Eaves, Toots, Emdog never get opportunistic goals- they are usually trying to prevent them. Hard to score when the top two line are getting 22 minutes a night and other guys get 6, 8 or 10. Just sayin'

 Here you go:

 

redwingsgoalspointperti.jpg

 

Ignore the title on the fourth graph.  It should say Points per Games Played. 

 

All data taken from ESPN.com



#13 Johnz96

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

 Here you go:

 

redwingsgoalspointperti.jpg

 

Ignore the title on the fourth graph.  It should say Points per Games Played. 

 

All data taken from ESPN.com

I am not sure what Points Per Average Time on Ice is supposed to mean or signify. It has Abdelkader tied with Tatar in that category. Abdelkader has scored 9 points in 570:44 minutes of ice-time, Tatar has scored 7 points in 204:44 meaning Abdelkader has scored a point every 63.4 minutes he is on the ice and Tatar has scored 1 every 29.1 mins he is on the ice. Only Datsyuk and Zetterberg have scored more frequently than Tatar.

But you dont need stats to see that other than Datsyuk and Zetterberg, Tatar and Nyquist have been the Wings' most dynamic  forwards and that would be even more noticeable if they afforded as much ice-time as other forwards on the team who haven't been as impactful



#14 Carman

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

Having our 3rd and 4th best forwards toiling in the minors for most of the season and giving them very little ice-time with the Wings when they're up hurts even more.

 

Completely disagree, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson are better players right now. They are both coming off of .54(Bertuzzi), and .57(Samuelsson). Tatar and Nyquist will hopefully one day surpass that, but to expect rookies to put up numbers like that, yet playing a defensively sound game is ludicrous.

 

I don't understand why people undervalue Bert and Sammy, they are very good secondary scorers, and our teams is worse off without them. Would the Islanders miss Okposo or Nielsen? Would Nashville miss Hornqvist? Would Columbus miss Brassard, or Wisniewski(defense I know), Ott, Yandle, Hensky, Setoguchi, Umberger, Wilson, Koivu, Laich, Gagne, Mueller, Enstrom etc. are all about the same production. So yes we do miss their production.



#15 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:42 PM

Completely disagree, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson are better players right now. They are both coming off of .54(Bertuzzi), and .57(Samuelsson). Tatar and Nyquist will hopefully one day surpass that, but to expect rookies to put up numbers like that, yet playing a defensively sound game is ludicrous.

 

I don't understand why people undervalue Bert and Sammy, they are very good secondary scorers, and our teams is worse off without them. Would the Islanders miss Okposo or Nielsen? Would Nashville miss Hornqvist? Would Columbus miss Brassard, or Wisniewski(defense I know), Ott, Yandle, Hensky, Setoguchi, Umberger, Wilson, Koivu, Laich, Gagne, Mueller, Enstrom etc. are all about the same production. So yes we do miss their production.

But they  have to be on the ice to score, and they aren't and mostly haven't been.


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#16 Carman

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

But they  have to be on the ice to score, and they aren't and mostly haven't been.

 

And that's why we are struggling with secondary scoring.



#17 Johnz96

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:13 PM

And that's why we are struggling with secondary scoring.

Exactly. We would score a lot more if Nyquist and Tatar had more time



#18 Johnz96

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

Completely disagree, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson are better players right now. They are both coming off of .54(Bertuzzi), and .57(Samuelsson). Tatar and Nyquist will hopefully one day surpass that, but to expect rookies to put up numbers like that, yet playing a defensively sound game is ludicrous.

 

I don't understand why people undervalue Bert and Sammy, they are very good secondary scorers, and our teams is worse off without them. Would the Islanders miss Okposo or Nielsen? Would Nashville miss Hornqvist? Would Columbus miss Brassard, or Wisniewski(defense I know), Ott, Yandle, Hensky, Setoguchi, Umberger, Wilson, Koivu, Laich, Gagne, Mueller, Enstrom etc. are all about the same production. So yes we do miss their production.

Bertuzzi has scored a point every 29.1 mins of ice-time last year and 36.3 mins of ice-time this year. Samuelsson has scored a point every 30.7 mins of ice-time last year and 1 every 51.5 mins this year. Tatar has scored a point every 29.1 mins of ice-time. Bertuzzi has done it almost exclusively playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg and in the top 6. Samuelsson has also done it playing in the top 6 with his team's best players and getting a lot more PP time than Tatar who has almost exclusively played in the bottom 6 without Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I think Nyquist and Tatar are already as good as Samuelsson and Bertuzzi defensively. So statistically Tatar and Nyquist are better producers than Bert and Sammy but they don't have the size (something we are in short supply of)
Would Montreal miss Gallager and Galchenyuk if they were relegated to the minors and only got very limited ice-time with the Habs when called up for a few games? Would Florida miss Huberdeau? Schultz (defense I know), Conacher, Saad, Yakupov, Zibanejad, Tarasenko (the Blues record with and without him is already an indicatiion of how valuable he is to them), Brodin...



But they  have to be on the ice to score, and they aren't and mostly haven't been.

The same can be said for Tatar and Nyquist even though they were available to be



#19 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

Here's the thing though.  There's got to be a reason Babcock doesn't give Nyquist and Tatar more ice time right?  It's easy for us as fans to sit here and say the obvious play is give Tatar and Nyquist more time with the limited information and statistics we have 

 

It comes down to this.  People keep saying our prospects are so good and top notch.  And yet we play worn out veterans over them all the time.  Why?  Is it because Babcock doesn't realize what he's doing or is it because though their numbers look good they don't look as good live or in practice? 



#20 Johnz96

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:49 PM

Here's the thing though.  There's got to be a reason Babcock doesn't give Nyquist and Tatar more ice time right?  It's easy for us as fans to sit here and say the obvious play is give Tatar and Nyquist more time with the limited information and statistics we have 

 

It comes down to this.  People keep saying our prospects are so good and top notch.  And yet we play worn out veterans over them all the time.  Why?  Is it because Babcock doesn't realize what he's doing or is it because though their numbers look good they don't look as good live or in practice? 

I think they want them to make them work hard at their deficiencies to be the best they can. Make them hungrier for it.
I think they did the same with Datsyuk when he was a rookie.






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