Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

nhl.com calls Kenny the best GM


  • Please log in to reply
155 replies to this topic

#21 puckbags

puckbags

    The Future

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,592 posts
  • Location:Cobble Hill, BC, Canada ( 2,522 Miles from the Joe)

Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

We are 22nd in the league in scoring. We have a good goalie, and a great group of defensemen. Now we will see if Holland's any good. I'm gonna give him a couple years to rebuild the O, but if things don't start getting better next year, I will keep my current opinion of him in tact.

 

You've given your current opinion of him like 437 times..you seem to be back tracking a bit..stuck on the fence? The best moves or trades that Holland has made are the ones he hasn't made in my opinion.  He may be a little complacent at times but this team has been competitve for a long long time...I know the Bowman fanboys give Holland no credit but he is a great GM and will continue to be for as long as he wants. Often people say you need to build from the net out...we have our goalie..a good one coming down the pipe..a young defence but we need to figure out how we are going to score goals.


"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Refuses to Work Hard"

 

LGW after 1 loss is irrational, after a few in a row it becomes quite comical, 22 playoff appearances in a row and 4 cups in that time and still going strong. Relaxxxxx !!
 


#22 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:31 PM

 
You've given your current opinion of him like 437 times..you seem to be back tracking a bit..stuck on the fence? The best moves or trades that Holland has made are the ones he hasn't made in my opinion.  He may be a little complacent at times but this team has been competitve for a long long time...I know the Bowman fanboys give Holland no credit but he is a great GM and will continue to be for as long as he wants. Often people say you need to build from the net out...we have our goalie..a good one coming down the pipe..a young defence but we need to figure out how we are going to score goals.


The Dekeyser signing has really fired me up. I gotta be honest. Kenny earned some points with me on that one.

#23 DSM

DSM

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 622 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:33 PM

I think some people here would love to have Glen Sather as GM. The teams mediocrity would be overshadowed by the Christmas morning like nature that trade deadline day and July 1st would hold!



#24 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,974 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:43 PM

I think some people here would love to have Glen Sather as GM. The teams mediocrity would be overshadowed by the Christmas morning like nature that trade deadline day and July 1st would hold!

 

This.  I've been thinking lately how a lot of LGWers should take a long hard look at the likes of Philly and the Rangers.  Every year that they don't win the cup they blow the whole thing up - big trades, big FA signings, big buyouts, big coach hiring and firings.  And from one year to the next its a complete crapshoot whether they make the playoffs or not. 


Edited by Nev, 12 April 2013 - 03:44 PM.

"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#25 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

The Dekeyser signing has really fired me up. I gotta be honest. Kenny earned some points with me on that one.

 

DeKeyser was practically wearing a Wings jersey to Toronto to be pawed at by the other suitors.  The kid wanted to be a Wing from the start, all Kenny had to do was not screw it up.  It's not like Kenny could've been outbid for him by other GMs due to the entry level contract because you know he probably would have been.  I'm glad we got DK but he basically jumped into Kenny's lap.

 

esteef


"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#26 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:54 PM

 
DeKeyser was practically wearing a Wings jersey to Toronto to be pawed at by the other suitors.  The kid wanted to be a Wing from the start, all Kenny had to do was not screw it up.  It's not like Kenny could've been outbid for him by other GMs due to the entry level contract because you know he probably would have been.  I'm glad we got DK but he basically jumped into Kenny's lap.
 
esteef


I have thought that about every player. I will give Kenny credit for his good signings. Because I'm sure going to blame him when we lose a guy like Hossa to a division rival.

#27 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:55 PM

kinda a reputation pick there. I think Holland has slipped a bit in past years. He has made a few boneheaded decisions recently like Sammy, Cola, Gus, Quincey (trade) signings. There have been a few opportunities to improve the team that fell though as well. He is definitely a top 5 GM but im not sure if he is the best atm. 



#28 gowings00

gowings00

    No Talent Goon

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,770 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:05 PM

Overrated.....Clap, Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap. Overrated.....Clap, Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap.

Ok. Actually, I'm kidding but I do think its much easier to be a great GM when you have a big wallet and no salary cap (or a robust one). HOWEVER, this ever decreasing salary cap has not only given other teams a chance at the Cup but players no longer feel like they have to go to Detroit to win one. It's not all Kenny's fault but he needs to get busy in the offseason!

Go Wings!

Edited by gowings00, 12 April 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#29 JoeBuddy

JoeBuddy

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 86 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:18 PM

You have to consider his forsight to not make any reactional signings or trades. Teams like NY, Philly, and even Pittsburgh this year went "all in" to try to win The Cup. If none of them do, then it was a failed season by their expectations (Philly fell flat early). This season without a doubt is a rebuilding year. However, look at where we currently are in the standings. We are 8th in the WC and 15th in the league. To me, it's incredible that we are rebuilding and are still competing for a playoff spot.

 

In our worst season in a long time, we can still see hope and potential that we can be a serious contender within the next few years. We are only a top 6 player or two away from that. We lost the best defensemen ever to play, along with Brad Stuart and our defense hasn't struggled nearly as much as everyone expected. We have competed and almost beat the best team in the Western Conference twice this season, all while injury riddled.

 

The losses of Helm and Bert (not so much Sammy) have really caused us to force guys who don't belong in the top 6 to step up and play top 6 minutes. Holland could have made a move to land a guy like Iginla or Bouwmester, but why would he at the expense of our future? Holland is as level-headed as a GM can be. He realized right after the last lockout that teams now need to build through the draft and not through free agency.

 

Look at all of the teams who have won Stanley Cups in the past years and there is a trand that their superstars are drafted, while their role players are picked up through trade or free agency.

 

06 Hurricanes - Eric Staal

07 Ducks - Perry, Ryan, Getzlaf, McDonald

08 Wings - Datsyuk, Zetty, Filp, Franzen, Lidstrom, Kronwall

09 Pens - Crosby, Malkin, Fleury

10  Blackhawks - Toews, Kane, Staal, Keith, Brouwer

11 Bruins - Lucic, Krejci, Berjeron, Marchand, Seguin

12 Kings - Quick, Kopitar, Brown, Doughty

 

For the most part, since the 04-05 lockout, all of the teams who have won Stanley Cups have built their core through drafting while adding one or two other pivotal players through other means. Ken Holland was the first person to say that this is the new trend after that year. He didn't trade any draft picks this season in order to gain a rental player. He is a very smart man and I don't think that any of us on the internet could do a better job than him.

 

edit: grammar


Edited by JoeBuddy, 12 April 2013 - 06:19 PM.

  • Nev likes this
"Holmstrom gets more attention around the net than a pretty girl around closing time!"
- Mickey Redmond observing Tomas Holmstrom getting hit by the Dallas Stars. (January 12, 2001)

#30 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,030 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:43 PM

I'm hoping that this season has opened Holland's eyes a bit.  I don't think the Wings can afford to keep prospects in the minors forever and sign old former Red Wing free agents to fill the gap.  Because of the cap, you have to give jobs to younger, cheaper players.  We no longer have the luxury of paying future hall of famers several million to play on the third line or sit in the press box to fill in for an injury.  Not saying play a guy full time at 18, but by 21 or so, these guys need to be given a chance to play and not continue to rot in Grand Rapids.



#31 gowings00

gowings00

    No Talent Goon

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,770 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:17 PM

I'm hoping that this season has opened Holland's eyes a bit.  I don't think the Wings can afford to keep prospects in the minors forever and sign old former Red Wing free agents to fill the gap.  Because of the cap, you have to give jobs to younger, cheaper players.  We no longer have the luxury of paying future hall of famers several million to play on the third line or sit in the press box to fill in for an injury.  Not saying play a guy full time at 18, but by 21 or so, these guys need to be given a chance to play and not continue to rot in Grand Rapids.


I think the Kindl's of the world would agree with your last sentence. Some guys need the challenge of the big leagues in order to excel. I also feel Nyquist should have been with the big boys all year.

#32 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,297 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:19 PM

This just in.

 

nhl.com calls Kirk Douglas the greatest movie star in the world.  


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#33 xtrememachine1

xtrememachine1

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,390 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh

Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:24 PM

Have you seen the list of players we've lost to retirement and free agency the last 3 years?  Lidstrom, Rafalski, Osgood, Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby have all hung up the skates.  That's 22 stanley cup rings by my count, including one all time great and a couple of borderline HOFers.  3 of our "Big 5", plus our starting goaltender from the Stanley Cup year have gone.  Throw in the loss of Hudler and Stuart.  Did I miss anyone? 

 

And yet we're still in a playoff spot, whilst rebuilding our pipeline to its highest level in 20 years.

 

Right.  That's kind of my point.  We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL.  The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone.  We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time.  Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.



#34 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,297 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:34 PM

Right.  That's kind of my point.  We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL.  The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone.  We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time.  Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

 

Second round exit in 2010

Second round exit in 2011

First round exit in 2012

 

I doubt we'll get out of the first round this year, providing we even make the playoffs.  This team has gotten worse over the years.  The people he has brought in have been either injured or are a waste of time.  


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#35 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,030 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

Right.  That's kind of my point.  We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL.  The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone.  We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time.  Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

To be fair, how many teams have been in the playoffs consistently and have made it to the second or third round every single year.  No team does that. 



#36 xtrememachine1

xtrememachine1

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,390 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh

Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:15 PM

To be fair, how many teams have been in the playoffs consistently and have made it to the second or third round every single year.  No team does that. 

 

I understand and you're right, consistently making the playoffs like the Wings have is great.  Holland's career as a whole has been pretty good.  What I'm wondering is, why is there are article ranking Holland as the best GM in the league when he has done very little in the past three years while the team's performance has been declining.  I get that we're "rebuilding" and going with younger players, but does that mean he's doing a good job by doing nothing?



#37 Playmaker

Playmaker

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,030 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:34 PM

I think it was referenced earlier that some GMs over react when the team loses early in the playoffs or doesn't make the playoffs or goes for a radical rebuild.  Think about it, we only have one player left from the 2002 Stanley Cup winning team.  So they team has been totally overhauled in 10 years.  We only have about a half dozen players left from the 2008 Cup team.  So to say nothing has changed wouldn't really be accurate.  Most has been through natural attrition with the retirement of older players, but there has been a great deal of change.  No Holland hasn't made all the right moves.  Neither did Scotty Bowman (Uwe Krupp anyone?)  But staying level headed and keeping with a plan to stay consistent when all the pressure is on to make a "big move" (and your job is on the line) can't be an easy thing to do, I would imagine. 



#38 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:57 PM

Kenny's made changes alright, I mean he brought in guys like Commodore.

esteef
"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#39 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,974 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:15 AM

Right.  That's kind of my point.  We've lost players left and right and we're replacing them players from the AHL.  The salary cap has been going up, those players leaving is freeing up tons of cap space and he hasn't traded for or signed, hardly anyone.  We're doing a little worse each year, our cap space is growing, our problems are increasing and Holland hasn't done anything during this time.  Again, don't get me wrong, he's done lots for the Wings over the years, but to post an article proclaiming him the best GM in the NHL when he's done very little over the past few years is bizarre.

 

 

But who is available to replace those guys?  There are very, very few quality FAs available these days.  How do you replace a guy like Lidstrom?  There is NO_ONE, not a single player, in the NHL right now who is as good as Lidstrom was.  Chara and Weber are as good as it gets, neither is in the "all-time, all-NHL" bracket like Lidstrom is, neither will hit Free Agency, and if they were available for trade, the cost would be crippling.

 

I do agree we are in decline - I've been saying it for several years - but even in a transitional year, we are still in a playoff spot. 

 

A bit of perspective.  Our big rivals from the free-spending years.  Colorado - what happened to them after Roy, Foote, Sakic, Forsberg et al retired?  They've sucked ever since.  What about Dallas after Modano, Belfour, Zubov etc went?  They've sucked.  What happened to us after we lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Larionov, Hull, Robitaille etc?  Ken Holland went out and built another Stanley Cup roster.  And now most of that roster has retired or left and he's rebuilding the team again.  How many GMs out there have sucessfully rebuilt Cup winning rosters? Lou Lamoriello, and uh, I think thats about it.

 

DeKeyser was practically wearing a Wings jersey to Toronto to be pawed at by the other suitors.  The kid wanted to be a Wing from the start, all Kenny had to do was not screw it up.  It's not like Kenny could've been outbid for him by other GMs due to the entry level contract because you know he probably would have been.  I'm glad we got DK but he basically jumped into Kenny's lap.

 

As I've said before, if he gets the blame for Suter's wife and Parise being from Minnesota, he sure as hell gets the credit for DelKaiser being from Michigan


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#40 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

 
 
But who is available to replace those guys?  There are very, very few quality FAs available these days.  How do you replace a guy like Lidstrom?  There is NO_ONE, not a single player, in the NHL right now who is as good as Lidstrom was.  Chara and Weber are as good as it gets, neither is in the "all-time, all-NHL" bracket like Lidstrom is, neither will hit Free Agency, and if they were available for trade, the cost would be crippling.
 
I do agree we are in decline - I've been saying it for several years - but even in a transitional year, we are still in a playoff spot. 
 
A bit of perspective.  Our big rivals from the free-spending years.  Colorado - what happened to them after Roy, Foote, Sakic, Forsberg et al retired?  They've sucked ever since.  What about Dallas after Modano, Belfour, Zubov etc went?  They've sucked.  What happened to us after we lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Larionov, Hull, Robitaille etc?  Ken Holland went out and built another Stanley Cup roster.  And now most of that roster has retired or left and he's rebuilding the team again.  How many GMs out there have sucessfully rebuilt Cup winning rosters? Lou Lamoriello, and uh, I think thats about it.
 

 
As I've said before, if he gets the blame for Suter's wife and Parise being from Minnesota, he sure as hell gets the credit for DelKaiser being from Michigan


A good GM makes the moves that are hard to get done. Not the cupcakes.





Similar Topics Collapse

  Topic Forum Started By Stats Last Post Info

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users