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Detroit: Circa June 2018...


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#121 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:24 PM

There was absolutely nothing wrong with that hit. I understand where you are coming from due to the fallout from Abby's hit, but the coaches will develop his hitting to be within the rules. Johnz point, as I understood it, was that Domi likes to play physical which is encouraging. I really hope he is available at 18, and I think he is going to develop into being a physical version of St. Louis.

No. he will get killed in the pros. he has good not great speed. Being undersized with only good speed is a recipe for a guy being a 15-20 goal per year guy. We need BETTER than that with our 1st. I am hoping he is gone that wau there is no way Holland F's up and takes him. he is a clone of Nyquist and tatar and we really don't need another guy like them.



#122 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:32 PM

Now let's talk 3rd round and where we are at as an organization. As of today we have 18 forwards listed on the RW prospect page. of those 18 guys, 12 are LHed and 6 are RHed. the average size of those 18 is just under 6-1 in height and about 195 pounds in weight. Agin the NHL average for all players is around 6-1.5/210. So we are undersized. Now we (in my mock draft) have added 6-5/220 LH C Gauthier and 6-5/230 RH RW McCarron. That helps our size and adds another RH shot to the mix.

That being said this is a really deep draft. There are 2 more rounds worth of guys that in most years would be 2nd round talents or higher. Time to pick really smart and turn this into a GREAT draft.

I stay with forwards these next 2 rounds, unless a super falls. Again we have very good depth in our system on the blueline, a weak undersized forward core, and 1 last thing, the 2014 draft is considered to be a draft strong in defensemen and undersized skilled forwards. So I would stay big these 2 rounds.

To this point in the draft there are so many good players that every team should be having a great time in NJ. No matter who a team takes, everyone-that is drafting, should be doing well.



#123 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:26 PM

Now names for the 3rd/4th round. Going to add some here. Here are 16 names of guys that I hope we get aleast 2 of: Tambellini, Hayden, Bell, Yakimov, Sanford, Buckles, Fasching, Peterson, Cehlerik, Baptiste, Moutrey, Olsson, Paul, Kujowinski. Lodge, and Natasiuk. 8 are RHed and 8 are LHed. There are Americans, Canadians, Swedes, Czechs, and Russians in this group. All are 6-1 or taller. All are considered late 2nd-could side a bit, 3rd or 4th round talents. I would prefer to stay with RHed shooters. In the 3rd I would go in order: Hyden, Fasching, and Lodge. In the 4th round i would go in order: Yakimov, Bell, Buckles, Baptiste,Olsson, and Natasiuk.

So though the 4th round, we have now drafted:

 

Gauthier 6-5/220 LH C

McCarron 6-5/230 RH RW

Hayden 6-3/220 RH C/RW

Yakimov 6-5/210 LH C

 

I will finish up round 5-7 tomorrow. These as always are long shots and hail mary picks.



#124 Johnz96

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:53 PM

No. he will get killed in the pros. he has good not great speed. Being undersized with only good speed is a recipe for a guy being a 15-20 goal per year guy. We need BETTER than that with our 1st. I am hoping he is gone that wau there is no way Holland F's up and takes him. he is a clone of Nyquist and tatar and we really don't need another guy like them.

He was a 194lb 17 yr old who will probably fill out to 210-220lbs. He is NOT undersized, with his lower center of gravity he is better able to take hits and deliver them

 Someone who is 5'10 and 194 lbs is probably much stronger and more powerful than someone who is 6'4" 194 lbs.



No Abby is about average. he is not "very physical". he is average in that department, maybe slightly above. In 2011/12 Abby had 148 hits. Not bad, that was 49th in the league amoung forwards. That was 220 hits behind the league leader Martin. Now don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Abby and we need MORE GUYS LIKE HIM.  

Now who in the draft is equal to Abby or better? Those are or should be our targets. That is the point. We have a bunch of guys like Filppula/Tatar/Nyquist/Jarnkrok etc.....

http://www.google.ca...8,d.aWc&cad=rja

 

 

Based on data from teams' opening rosters on Jan. 18 
 

  Weight Height Age   Wrank Hrank Arank Anaheim 203.3 73.1 27.6   17 18 22 Boston 200.0 72.9 28.5   26 21 11 Buffalo 203.1 73.3 27.7   19 13 19 Calgary 195.5 72.8 28.3   30 23 14 Carolina 200.5 73.1 27.3   24 18 26 Chicago 203.0 72.3 27.7   20 29 19 Colorado 205.9 73.1 27.8   8 18 16 Columbus 204.5 73.3 26.9   12 13 30 Dallas 197.2 72.4 28.8   29 28 5 Detroit 201.2 72.6 29.6   22 26 3 Edmonton 203.8 73.5 27.6   16 8 22 Florida 201.2 73.5 29.7   22 8 1 Los Angeles 209.7 73.3 27.3   2 13 26 Minnesota 199.7 72.7 27.5   27 24 25 Montreal 197.3 72.1 27.8   28 30 16 Nashville 205.4 73.3 28.2   10 13 15 New Jersey 204.5 72.9 29.7   12 21 1 NY Islanders 200.3 72.7 28.7   25 24 8 NY Rangers 206.1 73.7 28.6   7 6 10 Ottawa 206.8 73.9 27.6   5 3 22 Philadelphia 202.7 73.8 27.8   21 5 16 Phoenix 204.2 73.4 28.8   14 11 5 Pittsburgh 203.3 73.3 28.5   17 13 11 San Jose 210.7 74.0 28.7   1 1 8 St. Louis 205.8 72.6 27.7   9 26 19 Tampa Bay 206.2 73.7 28.8   6 6 5 Toronto 204.8 73.5 27.3   11 8 26 Vancouver 204.0 73.4 28.9   15 11 4 Washington 208.0 73.9 28.4   3 3 13 Winnipeg 207.3 74.0 27.3   4 1 26 Average 203.5 73.2 28.2    

#125 MasterPavel

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:56 PM

Richdg that is just not true. Here is Mynhldraft.com's scouting report on him. And all the rest talk about him as an explosive skater and very fast.

Strengths Max Domi is quite the package. Hes loaded with skill, is a dynamic offensive player and is one of the best skaters in this years class. Domis stride is explosive, to say the least. He has an incredibly high top speed and it doesnt take him long to reach it. Hes extremely shifty and is very good with stops and starts and at cutting strides. Hes not a big guy but what he lacks in size, he makes up for in heart and feistiness. He wont back down from anyone and he rarely gets outworked. While Domis willing to mix it up physically, hes very good at getting under the skin of his opponents and drawing penalties. Domi sees the ice very well and is an excellent playmaker. His hockey sense is through the roof and there are very few passes he cant make. Domi isnt afraid to go to the dirty areas of the ice and has no problem filling the net, either. His hands are incredible and he can often be found stick handling in a phone booth.

#126 number9

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:29 PM

If we draft a Domi, Probie will rise from the grave. RIP Bob.



#127 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

Richdg that is just not true. Here is Mynhldraft.com's scouting report on him. And all the rest talk about him as an explosive skater and very fast.

Strengths Max Domi is quite the package. Hes loaded with skill, is a dynamic offensive player and is one of the best skaters in this years class. Domis stride is explosive, to say the least. He has an incredibly high top speed and it doesnt take him long to reach it. Hes extremely shifty and is very good with stops and starts and at cutting strides. Hes not a big guy but what he lacks in size, he makes up for in heart and feistiness. He wont back down from anyone and he rarely gets outworked. While Domis willing to mix it up physically, hes very good at getting under the skin of his opponents and drawing penalties. Domi sees the ice very well and is an excellent playmaker. His hockey sense is through the roof and there are very few passes he cant make. Domi isnt afraid to go to the dirty areas of the ice and has no problem filling the net, either. His hands are incredible and he can often be found stick handling in a phone booth.

Sorry don't see it. Watching him I see Tatar, nothing more. I undestand everyone has their personnel favs so be it. It he is our first round pick it will be  bad bad pick for us long term. he s not the type of player that is going to carry a team, like first round picks should from time to time. That doesn't mean he can't play.

I feel the same way about Rychel (spelling). Not a big fan of his either. I watch him and see Cleary. No that isn't terrible, but I expect a lot more from first round picks.

BTW John, I get that you have mad man love for Domi, but he is not his father. He is listed at 5-10 and we all know teams never lie. But him at 210-220 pounds will be fat. Go look at Lapointe his last couple of years. There is such a thing as to much weight, and 220 pounds on a 5-9/5-10 frame is a good example of it.



#128 MasterPavel

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:21 PM

Rich- he is one of my favorites for the 1st round, but he is behind Mantha and Zykov. Big Fred is probably the lowest risk, but also has the lowest ceiling of the bunch that will be in our range. However I agree on Rychel, he looks like Danny Boy on film. Dan Cleary in his prime was a good player for us but version 2.0 is not what is needed.

#129 Johnz96

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:08 PM

Sorry don't see it. Watching him I see Tatar, nothing more. I undestand everyone has their personnel favs so be it. It he is our first round pick it will be  bad bad pick for us long term. he s not the type of player that is going to carry a team, like first round picks should from time to time. That doesn't mean he can't play.

I feel the same way about Rychel (spelling). Not a big fan of his either. I watch him and see Cleary. No that isn't terrible, but I expect a lot more from first round picks.

BTW John, I get that you have mad man love for Domi, but he is not his father. He is listed at 5-10 and we all know teams never lie. But him at 210-220 pounds will be fat. Go look at Lapointe his last couple of years. There is such a thing as to much weight, and 220 pounds on a 5-9/5-10 frame is a good example of it.

His dad was 5'9" 215lbs and usually won the fastest Maple Leaf in their skills competition. They are short and stocky.



#130 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

His dad was 5'9" 215lbs and usually won the fastest Maple Leaf in their skills competition. They are short and stocky.

So? Doesn't mean anything. His dad 15 years ago was a goon. Nothing more. Hell Grimson once won our hardest shot competition. he couldn't play either. Now again, I am not saying max is a bad player. he is a guy that is able to put up Hudler type numbers. 20-25 goals and equal number of assists. but that is not a star and we need stars. Max is the type of guy you put on a line to help the other 2 out. he is not a guy that can lead a line. Thinking other wise is trying to put a round peg in a square hole. We do the same thing now with Cleary. we use him and a top 6 power forward, but that is not what Cleary is.



#131 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

Rich- he is one of my favorites for the 1st round, but he is behind Mantha and Zykov. Big Fred is probably the lowest risk, but also has the lowest ceiling of the bunch that will be in our range. However I agree on Rychel, he looks like Danny Boy on film. Dan Cleary in his prime was a good player for us but version 2.0 is not what is needed.

That is always the trick. Mantha could be Modano or Klima. One I like the other not so much. Gauthier to me plays a game that could be Keith Primeau minus the fighting. But others compare him to Joe Thornton. Either of those work. I don't think that Gauthier is a guy that will be a 80+ point per year guy, more like 70 ish every year. 25-30 goals with another 30-40 assists. But he is also a very good face off man and plays great D. Long term he is also more affordable. There is always the great debate, is a team better with 4 superstars making big time money or 7/8 very good players making less, but having more depth? That debate will rage on.



#132 Johnz96

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

So? Doesn't mean anything. His dad 15 years ago was a goon. Nothing more. Hell Grimson once won our hardest shot competition. he couldn't play either. Now again, I am not saying max is a bad player. he is a guy that is able to put up Hudler type numbers. 20-25 goals and equal number of assists. but that is not a star and we need stars. Max is the type of guy you put on a line to help the other 2 out. he is not a guy that can lead a line. Thinking other wise is trying to put a round peg in a square hole. We do the same thing now with Cleary. we use him and a top 6 power forward, but that is not what Cleary is.

You said that 5'10" 210-220lb forward would be fat but that's exactly what his dad was and he wasn't fat and in fact the fastest skater on the Leafs That's what we were talking about not how good a hockey player his dad was.

 



Sorry don't see it. Watching him I see Tatar, nothing more. I undestand everyone has their personnel favs so be it. It he is our first round pick it will be  bad bad pick for us long term. he s not the type of player that is going to carry a team, like first round picks should from time to time. That doesn't mean he can't play.

I feel the same way about Rychel (spelling). Not a big fan of his either. I watch him and see Cleary. No that isn't terrible, but I expect a lot more from first round picks.

BTW John, I get that you have mad man love for Domi, but he is not his father. He is listed at 5-10 and we all know teams never lie. But him at 210-220 pounds will be fat. Go look at Lapointe his last couple of years. There is such a thing as to much weight, and 220 pounds on a 5-9/5-10 frame is a good example of it.

I think the scout that wrote this report has seen him play more than you and has seen more jr. hockey than you so I would trust his judgement a lot more than yours especially considering some of the things you have said.


Edited by Johnz96, 13 June 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#133 MasterPavel

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:14 PM

Johnz- to be fair to rich scouting isn't an exact science, and I just hope the first 17 teams share his opinion :)...

#134 Richdg

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:13 PM

You said that 5'10" 210-220lb forward would be fat but that's exactly what his dad was and he wasn't fat and in fact the fastest skater on the Leafs That's what we were talking about not how good a hockey player his dad was.

 



I think the scout that wrote this report has seen him play more than you and has seen more jr. hockey than you so I would trust his judgement a lot more than yours especially considering some of the things you have said.

Of course he has, and if he is honest he would tell you he has no idea on how things will work out. That is true of every prospect in every draft.

No his dad listed about 210 wasn't fat, but he also wasn't much of a hockey player. I watch Tie play for years. Great fighter but that was all he brought to the table. Max is not as big as his dad nor will he be. Which is fine.

In 5 years the chances are much greater that Mantha, Gauthier, Wannenburg Erne etc... will all be better players than Domi, which in the end is what matters.



#135 number9

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:36 AM

Max is 5'9" 194 lbs at 18. He'll probably end up around 5'10 210lbs as he grows. Not far off from zberg or dats. He's also incredibly more talented than his father, but also plays with his fathers fearless energy. Not a player to build around? How many 1st round players have been built around rich? Maybe 1 or 2 a draft? If hes another yzerman, awesome. if hes another lapointe, awesome. Your expectations are unrealistic, as are your evaluations of the guy.

#136 number9

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:36 AM

Max is 5'9" 194 lbs at 18. He'll probably end up around 5'10 210lbs as he grows. Not far off from zberg or dats. He's also incredibly more talented than his father, but also plays with his fathers fearless energy. Not a player to build around? How many 1st round players have been built around rich? Maybe 1 or 2 a draft? If hes another yzerman, awesome. if hes another lapointe, awesome. Your expectations are unrealistic, as are your evaluations of the guy.

#137 dirtydangles

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:56 AM

I don't think its fair to eliminate Domi from consideration based on size alone. If you are worried about raising our net team size we can do that with other picks. You just got to go best talent available and if he is the best there then I'm all for it. He could be one of those unique talents despite his size in the nhl for all we know. 

 

EDIT: his type 1 diabetes is a bit of a risk though.


Edited by dirtydangles, 14 June 2013 - 08:59 AM.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#138 Richdg

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:10 AM

Max is 5'9" 194 lbs at 18. He'll probably end up around 5'10 210lbs as he grows. Not far off from zberg or dats. He's also incredibly more talented than his father, but also plays with his fathers fearless energy. Not a player to build around? How many 1st round players have been built around rich? Maybe 1 or 2 a draft? If hes another yzerman, awesome. if hes another lapointe, awesome. Your expectations are unrealistic, as are your evaluations of the guy.

When you say things like this, you really make yourself look foolish. 1 or 2 pr draft? LOL! I am not sure to debate with you or ignore you after that. That is so wrong it isn't even funny. But since you like to post I will answer.

here are the 1st round stars out of each draft from 2000 through 2009. The drafts after that are in the still to soon to know grou.

2000: Heatley, Gaborik, Klesla, Hartnell, Orpik, Boyes, Williams, Kronwall-8 that really made it.

2001: Kovolchuk, Spezza, Weiss, Goc-4 the worst year

2002: Nash, Bouwmeester, Semin, Ward-4 the worst year

2003: (this years draft is believed to rival this draft) Floury, Staal, Horton, Vanek, Michalek, Suter, Phaneuf, Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, getzlef, Kesler, Richards, Perry-15 stars

2004: Ovechkin, Malkin, Ladd, Smid, Stafford, Zajac, Schneider, Green-8

2005: Crosby, Ryan, Johnson, Price, Kopitar, Hanzel, Rask, Oshie-8

2006: E Johnson, J Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Okposo, Giroux, Bergland-8

2007: Kane, van Riemsdyk, Voracek, Couture, Sutter, McDonugh, Pacieretti-7

2008: Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Schenn, Boedker, Myers, Karlsson, Del Zotto, Eberle, Carlson-10

2009: Tavares, Hedman, Duchene, Kane, Schenn, OEL-6

That makes 78 in 10 years, or a 8 star per year average. Yes you get a stinker year once in a while and you get a loaded year once in a while-like this year.

Of the names listed above, how many are under 6 ft tall? 1 or 2. Giroux is the only one off of the top of my head. The game is getting bigger and will continue to do so. yes a smaller guy can play, but the odds are very much against him. we need players with the odds in our favor that can become stars to lead this team over the next 15-20 years.



I don't think its fair to eliminate Domi from consideration based on size alone. If you are worried about raising our net team size we can do that with other picks. You just got to go best talent available and if he is the best there then I'm all for it. He could be one of those unique talents despite his size in the nhl for all we know. 

 

EDIT: his type 1 diabetes is a bit of a risk though.

Yes. I didn't even get to that part yet. Diabetes is something that robs many of their strength. In the NFL-where this is common, once a guy develops it, they tend to have very short careers. No it is not a sure fire kiss of death, and depending on what type of diabetes it can be controlled and guys can have long careers. But again, this is a very deep draft filled with talented players. Why should we take that risk? we need some sure fire home runs this year. Like we did in 1983. Yzerman, Ysebert, Probert, Klima, Kocur, Grimson all in the same draft. All forwards and as a group gave us everything a team needs: speed, skill, size, toughness, leadership.



#139 Johnz96

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:19 AM

When you say things like this, you really make yourself look foolish. 1 or 2 pr draft? LOL! I am not sure to debate with you or ignore you after that. That is so wrong it isn't even funny. But since you like to post I will answer.

here are the 1st round stars out of each draft from 2000 through 2009. The drafts after that are in the still to soon to know grou.

2000: Heatley, Gaborik, Klesla, Hartnell, Orpik, Boyes, Williams, Kronwall-8 that really made it.

2001: Kovolchuk, Spezza, Weiss, Goc-4 the worst year

2002: Nash, Bouwmeester, Semin, Ward-4 the worst year

2003: (this years draft is believed to rival this draft) Floury, Staal, Horton, Vanek, Michalek, Suter, Phaneuf, Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, getzlef, Kesler, Richards, Perry-15 stars

2004: Ovechkin, Malkin, Ladd, Smid, Stafford, Zajac, Schneider, Green-8

2005: Crosby, Ryan, Johnson, Price, Kopitar, Hanzel, Rask, Oshie-8

2006: E Johnson, J Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Okposo, Giroux, Bergland-8

2007: Kane, van Riemsdyk, Voracek, Couture, Sutter, McDonugh, Pacieretti-7

2008: Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Schenn, Boedker, Myers, Karlsson, Del Zotto, Eberle, Carlson-10

2009: Tavares, Hedman, Duchene, Kane, Schenn, OEL-6

That makes 78 in 10 years, or a 8 star per year average. Yes you get a stinker year once in a while and you get a loaded year once in a while-like this year.

Of the names listed above, how many are under 6 ft tall? 1 or 2. Giroux is the only one off of the top of my head. The game is getting bigger and will continue to do so. yes a smaller guy can play, but the odds are very much against him. we need players with the odds in our favor that can become stars to lead this team over the next 15-20 years.



Yes. I didn't even get to that part yet. Diabetes is something that robs many of their strength. In the NFL-where this is common, once a guy develops it, they tend to have very short careers. No it is not a sure fire kiss of death, and depending on what type of diabetes it can be controlled and guys can have long careers. But again, this is a very deep draft filled with talented players. Why should we take that risk? we need some sure fire home runs this year. Like we did in 1983. Yzerman, Ysebert, Probert, Klima, Kocur, Grimson all in the same draft. All forwards and as a group gave us everything a team needs: speed, skill, size, toughness, leadership.

 

He is absolutely right. He said "How many 1st round players have been built around". Most of the players you have listed have not been built around.
Only 1 of the top 5 scorers this year is over 6'0" and over 200lbs and they were smaller when they were drafted.

Only 2 of the top 10 scorers this year is over 6'0" and over 200lbs and they were smaller when they were drafted.

Only 6 of the top 20 scorers this year is over 6'0" and over 200lbs and they were smaller when they were drafted.


Edited by Johnz96, 14 June 2013 - 11:30 AM.


#140 Richdg

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

He is absolutely right. He said "How many 1st round players have been built around". Most of the players you have listed have not been built around.

That is a flat out lie and you know it. In fact, the best teams in the NHL all have 3, 4, 5 guys off of this list. How many do we have? 1. Kronwall and he is a borderline guy.

Boston is/has built around rask, Horton and other.

Pitt: Crosby, malkin, Orpik, Fluery, Staal who became Sutter.

Wash: Ovechkin, Green, Carlson, Backstrom

carolina: Staal and Sutter who became Staal

Florida: Weiss and Goc

etc etc etc.......

I you don't see that you are either blind, a fool, and just trying to argue. Either way doesn't matter. In todays NHL you build through the draft and then keep your own talent. You can't miss in the 1st round. If you do you will dry up in time.







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