Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Franzen's a Bargain


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#41 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,235 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:34 PM

Any team can say that about almost any of their players. 

 

What makes Franzen a 4 mil player instead of a 7-8 mil superstar is he doesn't have the drive/focus/heart/dedication/interest/want/will/ability/energy/stamina/mojo to play like this for 82 or even 48 games. Even players with much, much more skill and talent can suffer from that problem.  

 

But in general I will rather have a player that brings it when it comes down to the wire, than one who dominates in nothing games against nothing opponents and then disappears when it's make-or-break time. 

 

hossa...



#42 jeff48109

jeff48109

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,522 posts
  • Location:formerly Ann Arbor; now VA

Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

just three weeks ago people wanted kenny to use an amnesty buyout on Franzen



#43 The Secret

The Secret

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,202 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, ON

Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:16 PM

40 Gp 14G 17A 31P (1 more point than Hossa, 63 point pace over 82 games) +13  43 Hits all for a $4m cap hit

 

Hoss not only contributes offensively but a an amazing defensive player as well and has consistently played this way no matter what teams he is on or who he plays with... Franzen vanishes for a while, then plays some (after having "a fire lit under him") and then will vanish again and then push players from behind some and maybe give some face washes while running his mouth. To me there is no comparison between the 2... I pick Hoiss every time



#44 nuts2u

nuts2u

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 901 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:15 PM

40 Gp 14G 17A 31P (1 more point than Hossa, 63 point pace over 82 games) +13  43 Hits all for a $4m cap hit

 

 His cap hit is a bargain. when and if, he decides to play. However paying a player 5 million per year to play only when he feels like it is not a bargain in my opinion. He's scoring now but I still have no respect for him as a player because of his attitude.



#45 ogreslayer

ogreslayer

    1st Line All-Star

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,972 posts
  • Location:Indianapolis

Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:16 PM

I am seriously considering starting a "The Wings should have never traded away Paul Coffey" thread every time I see Hossa's name pop up in conjunction with Franzen's.  It's been almost 4 years now, get over it.  

 

People treat it like it was an "either sign Franzen or sign Hossa" situation & it wasn't.  Don't forget that Franzen signed for a total of $43.5m while Hossa wanted & got $62.8m in Chicago or respective cap hits of $3.95m & $5.275m.  And don't forget that the Hossa/Chicago deal was almost "Kovalchuked" by the NHL too.  I doubt Kenny would have pushed cap hit circumvention that far so Hossa's cap hit if he stayed in Detroit would have been higher.  For example, Franzen's deal only back dives to $1m per season for the last 2 years where Hossa's does it for the last 4.  So the situation really was either Hossa at a cap hit of $6m+ or use that for Franzen & to give raises to retain other players that season or after i.e. like Helm, Abby, Big E, etc. 

 

And on the topic of "well Franzen's cap hit may only be ~$4m a year, but his actual salary this season is $5.5m"...  Don't care.  The number that matters to the NHL & to the make-up of the team is cap hit, cap hit, cap hit.  I don't give a s*** what his actually salary is this season.  Not one bit.  He's got the 3rd highest cap hit among forwards on the team right now, 4th highest overall & he happens to be 3rd in scoring on the team this season, 4th last season, and 4th in 10-11.  Seems about right to me.  Say the Wings do buy out his contract this off season like some around here want, signing a UFA that provides similar production is going to cost them much more than a $4m per season cap hit.  So yes, Franzen at a cap hit of ~$4m a season is a bargain to me not only now, but it was at the start of this season as it was last season & the season before.


Edited by ogreslayer, 26 April 2013 - 03:40 PM.


#46 nuts2u

nuts2u

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 901 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

Franzen continues to be the most undeserved whipping boy ever. He's only led the team in goals every single year since he's had his contract.... and he is making UNDER FOUR MILLION DOLLARS.

 

I love it when people can tell how much "effort" someone is putting in. Even when he is outscoring, outhitting, and outplaying almost everyone else on the team, it is still Franzen who gets constantly criticized, even over the players who are making more money than him.

 

Franzen's been one of the hardest working players on the team all year. 

 

He works hard when he chooses. He does NOT make "less than 4MILLION", His contract this year is for 5.250  MILLION DOLLARS , which is $64,024.39 PER GAME, more than most people on this board make in a year. IF he was a hard worker he would be one of the best power forwards in the league, he's not!



#47 Jesusberg

Jesusberg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,635 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

Franzen could lead the team in points and he'd still get s*** on. He's become the perennial whipping boy around here.



#48 BuckeyeWingsfan80

BuckeyeWingsfan80

    The more the better

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,913 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

Whats most frustrating is that if we just would have gotten 15 more games this year of 'present day mule' we are sitting in 3rd or 4th right now.

 

They wouldn't be 3rd....I doubt they would have caught Chicago....


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#49 Z Winged Dangler

Z Winged Dangler

    Part 3: Return of the Hammer Hands

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,199 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:59 PM

 

we know what franzen brings every game, management knows, franzen and his agent know. That is why his cap hit is 4mil. We know he is streaky, and he really turns it on before and during the playoffs, and for what he produces he gets paid accordingly, if he went full mule all year long, we would be paying him upwards of 7m+/year cap hit, that is how it goes, to have a 28+ goal scorer for 4m is a good deal, especially considering how he plays in the playoffs.

If he was full Mule all year long, he'd be worth 7 mil, but he'd be putting up 90 points.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#50 Franzine

Franzine

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

Whats most frustrating is that if we just would have gotten 15 more games this year of 'present day mule' we are sitting in 3rd or 4th right now.

 

They wouldn't be 3rd....I doubt they would have caught Chicago....

 

He means 3rd in the league.

 

tumblr_luxfo09pbU1qfy8fto1_500.gif



#51 BuckeyeWingsfan80

BuckeyeWingsfan80

    The more the better

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,913 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

 

He means 3rd in the league.

 

tumblr_luxfo09pbU1qfy8fto1_500.gif

 

Which is meaningless, since they'd be 4th in the West....


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#52 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,086 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 26 April 2013 - 06:06 PM

Franzen could lead the team in points and he'd still get s*** on. He's become the perennial whipping boy around here.

 

It's because he spends so much time floating. Imagine if he were to always play the way he's playing now.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#53 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:05 PM

If he was full Mule all year long, he'd be worth 7 mil, but he'd be putting up 90 points.

And we wouldn't have been able to sign him or Hossa



#54 Franzine

Franzine

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

 

Which is meaningless, since they'd be 4th in the West....

 

Yeah, but 3rd in the league.

 

tumblr_luxfo09pbU1qfy8fto1_500.gif



#55 beachwing

beachwing

    Reader

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,253 posts
  • Location:Destin

Posted 26 April 2013 - 07:58 PM

Fair to say we wouldnt be fighting for our playoff lives right now and if we get in, meeting #1 first round.

If and buts I know but i think thats what runs most of us the wrong way.

He seems to have this ability to crank it up come April but this year April was March!

#56 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:37 PM

LOL, since we like to beat dead horses, NO! Franzen is not a bargin, nor is he a 30 gaol per year guy. Franzen has made it to the 30 goal in a season mark once! In 08/09. That is it. 1 time out of 9 or so years. For his career, Franzen has played 512 regular season games. he has a total of 164 regular season goals. When you do the math, that averages out to 26 goals per 82 games. But Franzen doesn't play 82 games per year. His career high was 80 games his rookie season in 05/06. Prior to this year he played 472 games in 7 seasons. Which is a 68 game per season average. Using 68 games as his average, and multiplying by his career goals per game average, franzen averages 22 goals per season.

But Franzen is great in the playoffs! No, that isn't true either. He has been with us for 7 trips to the playoffs. In 5 of those trips he has scored 6 goals or less. In those 5 years he averaged .27 goals per game, which is LOWER than his career goals per game average. What franzen did do was have great PO years in 08 and 09. That was 4 and 5 seasons ago, back when he was 28 and 29 years old. Back when Z and Datsyuk were also having their career years.

Now on the plus side, Franzen is signed for 7 more years! For 7 more years he will take up 4 million of cap space. Even if he is retired! I wonder how much everyone is going to like Franzen, Z, and Kronwall in 4 or 5 years when we will be forced to let young stars like (example) Dekeyser walk because our cap is all used up! Just wait for it......



#57 55fan

55fan

    All mine 'til 2-0-1-9

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,906 posts
  • Location:Fargo, ND

Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:40 PM

Unless it was undone by the current CBA, Mule doesn't count towards the cap if he retires before his contract is done, right?



#58 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts

Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:51 PM

Unless it was undone by the current CBA, Mule doesn't count towards the cap if he retires before his contract is done, right?

Yes he does. There are only 3 ways to get rid of his cap hit: trade him, buy him out, or put him on LTIR if he is hurt. That is it. Cap hit stays for retired players.



#59 55fan

55fan

    All mine 'til 2-0-1-9

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,906 posts
  • Location:Fargo, ND

Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

Yes he does. There are only 3 ways to get rid of his cap hit: trade him, buy him out, or put him on LTIR if he is hurt. That is it. Cap hit stays for retired players.

Ok.  I thought under-35 guys (at the time of signing) didn't count.  My bad.

 

Maybe he'll chip a nail when he gets too old to play and we'll LITR him.



#60 Opie

Opie

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,419 posts
  • Location:The only Henniker on Earth!

Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

Franzen could lead the team in points and he'd still get s*** on. He's become the perennial whipping boy around here.

You must not have been on the board when Feds played. That name alone still creates fiery debate and many a suspension on this board!

 

These were the same arguments had then, except Feds had the whole defense thing on his side of the argument (and was immensely more talented even when loafing!).

 

When guys like Yzerman come to be the face of your organization, it becomes hard to accept players who don't give it their all because they are disinterested, not because they are hurt or have things going on in life.

 

Just simply due to interest.

 

I will admit it Yzerman spoiled me, like being the best team in the league for the past 15+ years (not each year, overall most successful org in recent history)  has spoiled some Wings' fans. 

 

I do not like part time players/ guys that only play for big games, but some have no problem with it and even admit that  he has the talent to be a $7M + a year guy, but it is ok because he is only being paid to be half the player he could be!

 

I understand that everyone picks it up a level for big games, I played enough sports at a collegiate level(very bad and very small college) to know that everyone turns it up a notch come post season, even the very bad.

 

But Mule doesn't turn it up a notch, he simply turns it on. 


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock





Similar Topics Collapse

  Topic Forum Started By Stats Last Post Info

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users