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Franzen's a Bargain


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#61 Richdg

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:27 PM

Heck even this year he has missed 15% of our total games. Only has played in 40 out of the 47 total games to date. For a full season he is on pace to play 67 games.



#62 13dangledangle

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:19 AM

 

 

who cares, he is only signed till he is 40, not 52...

 

 

 

 

              .............For god sakes man I was just being facetious, the dudes not Gordie Howe...


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#63 number9

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:13 AM

The Franzen hate needs to end. I know his contract is a little long, but for the cap hit he's a bargain at his production level. Not every scorer can produce as consistently as Stamkos and other ELITE guys can. Franzen, like most scoring types, is streaky. Does he amp it up to the next level in the playoffs and such? Yes. Does he completely take nights off like 2011-12 Ovechkin/Semin? No.

 

We've been spoiled by the Yzerman's and the Datsyuk's. Not all players can be that perfect. I'm happy to have Franzen on this team.

 

Now Quincey....



#64 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:44 AM

LOL, since we like to beat dead horses, NO! Franzen is not a bargin, nor is he a 30 gaol per year guy. Franzen has made it to the 30 goal in a season mark once! In 08/09. That is it. 1 time out of 9 or so years. For his career, Franzen has played 512 regular season games. he has a total of 164 regular season goals. When you do the math, that averages out to 26 goals per 82 games. But Franzen doesn't play 82 games per year. His career high was 80 games his rookie season in 05/06. Prior to this year he played 472 games in 7 seasons. Which is a 68 game per season average. Using 68 games as his average, and multiplying by his career goals per game average, franzen averages 22 goals per season.

But Franzen is great in the playoffs! No, that isn't true either. He has been with us for 7 trips to the playoffs. In 5 of those trips he has scored 6 goals or less. In those 5 years he averaged .27 goals per game, which is LOWER than his career goals per game average. What franzen did do was have great PO years in 08 and 09. That was 4 and 5 seasons ago, back when he was 28 and 29 years old. Back when Z and Datsyuk were also having their career years.

Now on the plus side, Franzen is signed for 7 more years! For 7 more years he will take up 4 million of cap space. Even if he is retired! I wonder how much everyone is going to like Franzen, Z, and Kronwall in 4 or 5 years when we will be forced to let young stars like (example) Dekeyser walk because our cap is all used up! Just wait for it......

 

actually, if he were to play 68 games on average and score 26 goals/season, that would equate to 31.35 goals if he played 82 games each year, the more games you play, the more you score, not the other way around...



#65 Johnz96

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:04 AM

LOL, since we like to beat dead horses, NO! Franzen is not a bargin, nor is he a 30 gaol per year guy. Franzen has made it to the 30 goal in a season mark once! In 08/09. That is it. 1 time out of 9 or so years. For his career, Franzen has played 512 regular season games. he has a total of 164 regular season goals. When you do the math, that averages out to 26 goals per 82 games. But Franzen doesn't play 82 games per year. His career high was 80 games his rookie season in 05/06. Prior to this year he played 472 games in 7 seasons. Which is a 68 game per season average. Using 68 games as his average, and multiplying by his career goals per game average, franzen averages 22 goals per season.

But Franzen is great in the playoffs! No, that isn't true either. He has been with us for 7 trips to the playoffs. In 5 of those trips he has scored 6 goals or less. In those 5 years he averaged .27 goals per game, which is LOWER than his career goals per game average. What franzen did do was have great PO years in 08 and 09. That was 4 and 5 seasons ago, back when he was 28 and 29 years old. Back when Z and Datsyuk were also having their career years.

Now on the plus side, Franzen is signed for 7 more years! For 7 more years he will take up 4 million of cap space. Even if he is retired! I wonder how much everyone is going to like Franzen, Z, and Kronwall in 4 or 5 years when we will be forced to let young stars like (example) Dekeyser walk because our cap is all used up! Just wait for it......

You are a moron



#66 saven

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 03:46 AM

First unless your last name is ilitch the only # that matters is cap hit cuz that is what effects team building. Now to address the " floating". I'll agree I sometimes see mule not where he could be/ should be and I do see it as a lack of effort but for every mule float I see a cleary fall or a kronner bad clear so yeah his game isn't perfect but no one whos last name isn't lidstrom is.
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#67 Kronstantinov

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:30 AM

LOL, since we like to beat dead horses, NO! Franzen is not a bargin, nor is he a 30 gaol per year guy. Franzen has made it to the 30 goal in a season mark once! In 08/09. That is it. 1 time out of 9 or so years. For his career, Franzen has played 512 regular season games. he has a total of 164 regular season goals. When you do the math, that averages out to 26 goals per 82 games. But Franzen doesn't play 82 games per year. His career high was 80 games his rookie season in 05/06. Prior to this year he played 472 games in 7 seasons. Which is a 68 game per season average. Using 68 games as his average, and multiplying by his career goals per game average, franzen averages 22 goals per season.

But Franzen is great in the playoffs! No, that isn't true either. He has been with us for 7 trips to the playoffs. In 5 of those trips he has scored 6 goals or less. In those 5 years he averaged .27 goals per game, which is LOWER than his career goals per game average. What franzen did do was have great PO years in 08 and 09. That was 4 and 5 seasons ago, back when he was 28 and 29 years old. Back when Z and Datsyuk were also having their career years.

Now on the plus side, Franzen is signed for 7 more years! For 7 more years he will take up 4 million of cap space. Even if he is retired! I wonder how much everyone is going to like Franzen, Z, and Kronwall in 4 or 5 years when we will be forced to let young stars like (example) Dekeyser walk because our cap is all used up! Just wait for it......

6 goals in the playoffs is usually enough to be top 10 in the league.



#68 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:35 AM

 

              .............For god sakes man I was just being facetious, the dudes not Gordie Howe... 

 

so was i :)



#69 Dabura

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

The Franzen hate will end only when his soft-lethargic-apathetic-coasting-floating-dry-spells end. He spent most of this shortened season in No Man's Land. Had he played the way he's playing now, we might not be in the position we're in.

 

This isn't rocket science, folks.


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#70 nuts2u

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

Yes he does. There are only 3 ways to get rid of his cap hit: trade him, buy him out, or put him on LTIR if he is hurt. That is it. Cap hit stays for retired players.

If that is true then why doesn't Huet's 5.625M cap hit count against Chicago's Cap?



#71 Opie

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

The Franzen hate needs to end. I know his contract is a little long, but for the cap hit he's a bargain at his production level. Not every scorer can produce as consistently as Stamkos and other ELITE guys can. Franzen, like most scoring types, is streaky. Does he amp it up to the next level in the playoffs and such? Yes. Does he completely take nights off like 2011-12 Ovechkin/Semin? No.

 

We've been spoiled by the Yzerman's and the Datsyuk's. Not all players can be that perfect. I'm happy to have Franzen on this team.

 

Now Quincey....

Again, I ask, and no one has answered, when he is 40 will you still expect him to play like a 4 mil a year player?

 

I don't, I expect him to play like a 40 year old (if still playing), right now I expect him to play 32 year old, and to play hard every night.

 

You mentioned not everyone can be Like Yzerman or Dats, but the list of guys hustling every night while wearing the Winged Wheel goes much deeper than those two: Draper, Cheli, Z, Mac, Maltby, etc...

 

He was given the security of a career long contract, sure the team got a cap friendly hit, but he never has to get a contract again, he  can score 5 goals a year the rest of his career and not need to worry about a contract ever again.

 

His contract is player and team friendly, not just one way.

 

And someone mentioned Cleary falling down or Kronner's bad passing even Sammy's shinguard assault or Helm's hands of cement, I can keep listing players short comings or mistakes.

 

However; IMO lack of skill or execution is far more excusable than lack of effort!

 

I respect Tootoo more as a player than I do Franzen, and I am by no means a grit and sandpaper guy, but when I see Tootoo taking bad penalties or being out of position it is still obvious every night that he is going hard and giving his all.

 

The Mule I watched 4 weeks ago and before was definitely taking nights of ala Semin and Ovie as you mentioned above.

 

I have watched him coast up and down the ice on Offense and Defense, watched him get the puck in the zone only to loft what amounts to a saucer pass at the goalie.

 

When Zetta is struggling offensively at least you know he can still help shut down the other team's top line. A disinterested Mule is disinterested in all aspects of the game, ESPECIALLY HUSTLE!

 

Is he tremendously talented? Yes!

Does he take days/weeks off? Yes!

 

I just have a hard time comparing a guy like Cleary's inability to score 30 goals with Franzen's lack of desire/effort to score 30.

 

He is happy with the status quo, I get that, I just don't appreciate it!

 

You are entitled to you opinion, and I will not argue that, but when a thread pops up claiming he is a bargain, I feel like chiming in!


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#72 ogreslayer

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:58 AM

If that is true then why doesn't Huet's 5.625M cap hit count against Chicago's Cap?

 

I'm thinking it has something to do with the fact that he doesn't have a contract with the Blackhawks.  His $5.625m a season contract with them ended after the 2011-12 season.  That was also under the old CBA where teams could bury players in the AHL & keep their cap hit off the books.  That was eliminated under the new CBA.

 

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Edited by ogreslayer, 27 April 2013 - 11:03 AM.


#73 Opie

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:31 AM

The Cap rule about multi-year deals and retirement from Wiki:

 

 

The CBA also contains a 35-and-over rule, sometimes referred to as the Mogilny rule.[8] This rule states that if a player signs a multi-year deal when the player is 35 or older, starting in the second year of the contract, that amount will count towards the team's salary cap regardless of whether the player is on the active roster or not (unless the player is on long-term injured reserve); this provision remains in effect for the 2013 CBA. This is designed to keep teams from signing older players to lucrative front-loaded contracts, thus saving cap room, in which there is no expectation the player will actually play in the latter years

 

 

 

So as I understand it when Franzen retires so does his cap hit.

 

That is why the Hawks sent Huet overseas, to lose the cap hit.


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#74 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:17 PM

The Cap rule about multi-year deals and retirement from Wiki:

 

 

 

So as I understand it when Franzen retires so does his cap hit.

 

That is why the Hawks sent Huet overseas, to lose the cap hit.

 

so to answer others questions, will we expect him to play at a $4mil level in 7 years? no, but if he is not then he can reetire and lose the cap hit.



#75 Dabura

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:26 PM

 

so to answer others questions, will we expect him to play at a $4mil level in 7 years? no, but if he is not then he can reetire and lose the cap hit.

 

...or he'll ride out the remainder...?


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#76 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:34 PM

 

...or he'll ride out the remainder...?

 

no one really knows, but I am saying retiring is an option, right



#77 kipwinger

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

There is no way in hell that Franzen plays until he's 40.  Just not going to happen.  So stop sweating the small stuff fellas. 


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Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#78 ogreslayer

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:00 PM

The Cap rule about multi-year deals and retirement from Wiki:

 

 

 

So as I understand it when Franzen retires so does his cap hit.

 

That is why the Hawks sent Huet overseas, to lose the cap hit.

 

So you understand incorrectly.  Franzen's contract (as well as Hank's & Kronner's) is covered by the Cap Advantage Recapture clause, also known as the Roberto Luongo Rule, in the new CBA.  If a player signed a 7 year+ deal prior to Jan 2013 & retires before the expiration of the contract, the potion of the contract that was considered a cap advantage (years where actual salary exceeded the cap hit) is recaptured over the remaining years of the actual contract.  So for example, if Franzen were to retire after the 2015-16 season, he would have been paid $36m over the course of 7 seasons but the cap hit was only $27,681,815.  The difference would apply evenly over the course of the final 4 years of Franzen's contract, meaning the Wings would take a $2.08m cap hit for Franzen starting the 2016-17 season & he would finally come off the books after 2019-20.  

 

You can find a really easy to use cap hit recapture calculator here:  http://www.capgeek.c...ure-calculator/



#79 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:29 PM

 

So you understand incorrectly.  Franzen's contract (as well as Hank's & Kronner's) is covered by the Cap Advantage Recapture clause, also known as the Roberto Luongo Rule, in the new CBA.  If a player signed a 7 year+ deal prior to Jan 2013 & retires before the expiration of the contract, the potion of the contract that was considered a cap advantage (years where actual salary exceeded the cap hit) is recaptured over the remaining years of the actual contract.  So for example, if Franzen were to retire after the 2015-16 season, he would have been paid $36m over the course of 7 seasons but the cap hit was only $27,681,815.  The difference would apply evenly over the course of the final 4 years of Franzen's contract, meaning the Wings would take a $2.08m cap hit for Franzen starting the 2016-17 season & he would finally come off the books after 2019-20.  

 

You can find a really easy to use cap hit recapture calculator here:  http://www.capgeek.c...ure-calculator/

 

ya but if he WERE to retire, 2mil is still better than 4, am I wrong?



#80 saven

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:33 PM

Ok in light of the new CBa his hit is a little harder to take but when his contract was signed if he left early we would have been ok. How many players can a team have on ltir? What are the exact rules could hank and mule both suffer long term back issues at 37-38 and just walk away ? Is this the new loophole ?
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