Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Abdelkader suspended 2 games for hit on Lydman


  • Please log in to reply
303 replies to this topic

#281 NhlEndedDynasties

NhlEndedDynasties

    Draftee

  • Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

Sorry if this has been brought up previously, but I don;t remember if it was Selani or someone else, but in game 2 I think his sucker-punches to the back of DeKai's head were far worse than Abbey's hit, given the flagrant malicious intent.  Had he dove to the ice, I have to imagine it would have resulted in a similar scenario-- more than a two minute penalty.  I just don't understand how a hit that incidentally led to the head as a result of a shoulder/shoulder collision is treated so much more harshly than a punch to the back of a player's head.



#282 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 701 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

Then there's this: (via Rotoworld)

 

Toni Lydman is considered doubtful for Monday's game in Detroit due to a migraine and neck soreness.

Lydman was injured when Detroit's Justin Abdelkader hit him on Saturday, a hit that got Abdelkader a two game suspension by the NHL. Lydman did not practice on Sunday and it would seem that he could be out for at least the remainder of the series. "At this stage, it's hard to tell," coach Bruce Boudreau said. "Toni has headaches and he's got a stiff neck. Bright lights are bugging him. So I don't know when that's not going to be there." Reserve him for now, if you can.

 

In other words, Lydman got a worse penalty out of this whole transaction than Abby did.

 

NHL Suspensions are "reactive" remedies parading themselves as proactive measures.  If the NHL really tried to police every malicious or gratuitous act in the game, you'd have multiple suspensions per game.  The Weber/Z thing last year was bad, but didn't result in injury.  Meanwhile, Gryba throws basically a legal body check on Lars Eller, and the league reverse-engineers a rationale for suspending him because the dude ended up in a pool of blood on the ice.  Nevermind that much of that was probably from his visor bouncing on the ice and cutting his nose/face.

 

The system if frequently flawed and imbalanced, but I think that Shanahan is doing the best he can to bring transparency into the process and to establish some type of reliable precedent.  I don't think we have a legitimate gripe here.



#283 Mitchmac33

Mitchmac33

    Come on son!

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 426 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:36 AM

 

????

Nothing there? This is the frustrating thing. They let plays like this go without any supplemental discipline.  The game is all but over due to the score, and this is just a cheap play, to the head and nothing happens. Garbage NHL, just garbage


Edited by Mitchmac33, 06 May 2013 - 11:38 AM.


#284 Learn2LuvIt

Learn2LuvIt

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 560 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:16 PM

The only thing I don't agree with in this situation is no call being made at the time, by a ref who was three feet away.

 

Besides that, I'm okay with the rest.  A lot of speculation around the rule(s) and interpretation of this hit.  Doesn't really matter.  He clearly lined him up from at least 20 feet, drilled him at full speed, made contact with his head, and left his feet during the hit (like Michael Jordon type air).  The reality is that it doesn't really matter if he left his feet before hit, during, after...if he made contact with head or shoulder first, or how many strides he took before the hit.....whatever.  The fact that three elements potentially happened and debatable for a single play/hit....charging, contact with the head, and his feet leaving the ice, you're done.  Any of these three happened alone on one hit, he may have avoided suspension, but together it really a easy to see how he got suspended.  It's been like this for a while now in hockey, and all the players are very aware of what the league is trying to crack down on.  Is it better now than when players could absolutely destroy other players without recourse?...I don't think so.  But it IS REALITY.  Weber hit??....geez- ancient history.  What is Shanny going to give us a mulligan on that one.  For our mental health sake, get over it.

 

Abby should know better.  I give him an A+ on willingness to be physical.  F for execution.  D for intelligence on particular play at that particular time .  Full speed, contact with head, leaving your feet....You do that in the playoffs and a guy gets helped off the ice injured....the punishment will be heavy in today's NHL. 

 

Anyhow, I don't want to turn into Ducks fans who only talk about how they get screwed by the refs year-after-year and how they could have 8 Stanley Cups if it weren't for the league and the refs wanting them to lose.  As Wings fans, we're so many levels above that.  It's done.  He nailed a guy.  He's out for two.  Playoff hockey.  Let's tie this beeeaaatttttch up and win it in six.


Edited by Learn2LuvIt, 06 May 2013 - 12:22 PM.

ENJOY THE RIDE

#285 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,079 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

I don't think it was a terrible hit, but in this day and age, if you leave your feet and the head even looks like it's involved, you're in trouble. Probably for the best, but still hard to stomach. Gotta play smarter as time goes on.


-Elliot...does not panic.

#286 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,628 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

Nobody is taking hitting out of the game, and nobody is penalizing anyone for playing hard and finishing their checks.  You just can't recklessly hit guys in the head and/or leave your feet and/or charge.  That's it.  You hit properly and you're good.  I've used this video a thousand times to illustrate how you have to hit in today's game.  It's instructive because it's a hard clean hit, without any of the questionable things involved in the Abby hit.  Everybody laments the "good" old days when Scott Stevens would roam around head hunting, but to me, this hit (and all hits like it) are the mark of good hard nosed hockey. 

 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#287 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,841 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

Now if Sedin isn't suspended for that there is no justice. He used his fn stick Abby used his shoulder.

 

Some Players are intentionally trying to break the opponents hand I like Sedin I really do but man this could have caused a serious injury.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#288 Z Winged Dangler

Z Winged Dangler

    Part 3: Return of the Hammer Hands

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,196 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

The only thing I don't agree with in this situation is no call being made at the time, by a ref who was three feet away.

 

Besides that, I'm okay with the rest.  A lot of speculation around the rule(s) and interpretation of this hit.  Doesn't really matter.  He clearly lined him up from at least 20 feet, drilled him at full speed, made contact with his head, and left his feet during the hit (like Michael Jordon type air).  The reality is that it doesn't really matter if he left his feet before hit, during, after...if he made contact with head or shoulder first, or how many strides he took before the hit.....whatever.  The fact that three elements potentially happened and debatable for a single play/hit....charging, contact with the head, and his feet leaving the ice, you're done.  Any of these three happened alone on one hit, he may have avoided suspension, but together it really a easy to see how he got suspended.  It's been like this for a while now in hockey, and all the players are very aware of what the league is trying to crack down on.  Is it better now than when players could absolutely destroy other players without recourse?...I don't think so.  But it IS REALITY.  Weber hit??....geez- ancient history.  What is Shanny going to give us a mulligan on that one.  For our mental health sake, get over it.

 

Abby should know better.  I give him an A+ on willingness to be physical.  F for execution.  D for intelligence on particular play at that particular time .  Full speed, contact with head, leaving your feet....You do that in the playoffs and a guy gets helped off the ice injured....the punishment will be heavy in today's NHL. 

 

Anyhow, I don't want to turn into Ducks fans who only talk about how they get screwed by the refs year-after-year and how they could have 8 Stanley Cups if it weren't for the league and the refs wanting them to lose.  As Wings fans, we're so many levels above that.  It's done.  He nailed a guy.  He's out for two.  Playoff hockey.  Let's tie this beeeaaatttttch up and win it in six.

If he was going full speed, his feet would have still been moving.  He coasted to the hit.  Yes he was going fast, but he wasn't accelerating into the hit. 


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#289 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 701 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM

I actually got around to watching the NHL video just now, and while I agree with the suspension, it's interesting how vague they were about the PPOC on this hit compared to the Gryba/Eller hit.  In fact, they didn't mention if they thought the shoulder/elbow hit Lydman's head, even though I think it was a clearer case in this hit that they probably did than it was in the Eller case. 

 

I just don't understand the rationale of fans who think this wasn't a headshot...are they denying that Lydman couldn't get up after the hit?  That's he's missing games and has concussion symptoms now?  It doesn't matter if the hit to the head was with the shoulder, elbow, or both - that contact was allowed to happen because he lunged upward at a player that he had taken several strides towards.



If he was going full speed, his feet would have still been moving.  He coasted to the hit.  Yes he was going fast, but he wasn't accelerating into the hit. 

 

How do you jump without accelerating?  Isn't that physically impossible?  For the people saying that he didn't leave his feet until after the hit, that would still mean that he accelerated through Lydman's upper body.



#290 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,114 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:21 PM

I just don't understand the rationale of fans who think this wasn't a headshot...are they denying that Lydman couldn't get up after the hit?  That's he's missing games and has concussion symptoms now? 

 

 

Concussions can happen without head contact.



#291 Learn2LuvIt

Learn2LuvIt

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 560 posts

Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

If he was going full speed, his feet would have still been moving.  He coasted to the hit.  Yes he was going fast, but he wasn't accelerating into the hit. 

 

He "coasted" to the hit because his feet were already in mid-air.  Whatever.  My point is when you do all three at once (line a guy up 20 feet out and skate at considerable speed to engage, make considerable contact with players head, and considerably leave your feet)....you are going to get suspended.


ENJOY THE RIDE

#292 freshy

freshy

    Freshy

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 742 posts
  • Location:Apopka, Florida

Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:53 PM

I'm surprised so many people are questioning the validity of this suspension. When the play happened in real time my initial thought was "dumb play by Abby, he is going to pay for that." So many problems with this hit. He targeted him from halfway across the ice. Took about ten strides. Lept up. AND then decides to throw his elbow into the mix for good measure. It was a boneheaded play by a guy that makes boneheaded plays from time to time. 

 

As to the official right there not calling a penalty on it. Another poster mentioned that night that the official was probably in disbelief in what he just saw happen because it was so blatantly boneheaded. I tend to agree, see as how I was shaking my head in disbelief. That play sunk us in that game.


You gotta be the QB to win the MVP baby! You can't be the punter.

#293 beachwing

beachwing

    Reader

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,253 posts
  • Location:Destin

Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:57 PM

The play should have motivated us. Allowing only 1 goal to #2 pp in the league on 5 min major should of had us juiced and ready for battle 3rd period!

#294 McAwesome

McAwesome

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,573 posts
  • Location:Apopka, FL

Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:46 AM

At least we know that Abdelkader will get another shot at the Ducks on Friday, maybe he can stay low and level someone like Kronwall did tonight.


7yss.jpg

 

Thanks MabusIncarnate


#295 Hockeymom1960

Hockeymom1960

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,226 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:19 AM

Even Mickey said Shannahan got it wrong.



#296 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,612 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:25 AM

 

The Weber slam, yes, I felt it should have been punished by a suspension, perhaps 1 game, but that really has nothing to do with this hit.  I had actually forgotten that play took place with about 1 second left, many people have assumed/reported that it was "after" the game.  But that a very different type of play, where two players were already engaged.  There was obvious intent to injure by Weber on that play, and it's really more analogous to what Bertuzzi did in '04 than a headshot on a legal check.  I don't think we really want to have the discussion about what a thin line there was between what happened to Steve Moore and the thousands of other dirty plays that COULD have resulted in serious injury, without having any more malice aforethought than Bertuzzi had when he was trying to hurt Moore (but probably not trying to hurt him that bad).  Crap, look what Sedin just did last night:

 

itr2dq9zKawZf.gif

 

 

But there is ZERO argument that a blown suspension call in last year's Playoffs means that Abdelkader shouldn't be suspended for a clearly suspendable offense this year.  I think we can be partisan without being completely irrational.

 

That's nuts, was there even a penalty?

 

That is shades of Marty McSorley years ago...but what is that Uncle Gary? We need our stars playing the games...not in the press box?  Sedin should get a life ban for this, just like McSorley did.

 

 

The end result was different but the intent was the same....


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#297 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:06 AM

Its crazy to think that "stickwork" used to be part of the game back in the day. Dean Young blood never would have gotten to Racki if he didn't know how to handle himself with the lumber.

#298 Rhah

Rhah

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 502 posts
  • Location:Champaign, IL

Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:28 AM

So Sedin not even getting a fine for that? At least, Webber got fined.



#299 matt198913

matt198913

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,973 posts

Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

Did anyone notice how many times Shannahan was mentioned in his past heroics last night
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#300 WINGS TILL DEATH

WINGS TILL DEATH

    The Enforcer. "I want my name to be spagetti"

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 111 posts
  • Location:Ada, Mich

Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

I actually got around to watching the NHL video just now, and while I agree with the suspension, it's interesting how vague they were about the PPOC on this hit compared to the Gryba/Eller hit.  In fact, they didn't mention if they thought the shoulder/elbow hit Lydman's head, even though I think it was a clearer case in this hit that they probably did than it was in the Eller case. 

 

I just don't understand the rationale of fans who think this wasn't a headshot...are they denying that Lydman couldn't get up after the hit?  That's he's missing games and has concussion symptoms now?  It doesn't matter if the hit to the head was with the shoulder, elbow, or both - that contact was allowed to happen because he lunged upward at a player that he had taken several strides towards.



 

How do you jump without accelerating?  Isn't that physically impossible?  For the people saying that he didn't leave his feet until after the hit, that would still mean that he accelerated through Lydman's upper body.

 

I was taught to hit like Abby did. You don't go for the head, but you're told to crouch for a low center of gravity and lunge upward into the shoulders of chest. Otherwise its just a hard bump.

Only thing I saw wrong with it was Lydman had his head down cause he was trying to do some fancy eurodangling.







Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users