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Playing Eaves over Tootoo

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I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this subject.

I personally believe Tootoo bring a lot more to this lineup then Eaves ever would. He brings a whole different aspect to the table, I struggle to see where eaves excels and what he brings to the team that Tootoo cant do just as good or better. Tootoo provides much more energy and causes turnovers and scrambles in front of the net.

We need some dirty goals.

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I agree. I've never been a big Eaves fan and have always been in favour of Miller playing over him. I think Tootoo brings more to the lineup as well.

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I don't think it's a matter of Eaves OR Tootoo. They both should be playing. You need Eaves because he kills penalties and Tootoo doesn't. But there's really no reason to play anyone else on the opposite wing other than Tootoo. Eaves-Emmy-Tootoo. Nuff said. Then put Bert or Sammy up with Dats and Z.

brett likes this

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Completely agree with the OP. I love Babs and all, but sometimes I just don't understand his logic on certain things. Tootoo > Eaves and Cleary

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I don't think it's a matter of Eaves OR Tootoo. They both should be playing. You need Eaves because he kills penalties and Tootoo doesn't. But there's really no reason to play anyone else on the opposite wing other than Tootoo. Eaves-Emmy-Tootoo. Nuff said. Then put Bert or Sammy up with Dats and Z.

I agree with this. Eaves kills penalties. Tootoo doesn't. I would agree with the argument that Tootoo adds more benefit during 5 on 5 play than Eaves does. But, I think we're struggling more on special teams than we are at even strength and Tootoo doesn;t help special teams. I wish he was a good penalty killer.

I also agree that he should be in instead of Bert. I would not say this if we were talking about a 100% healthy Bert (or even somewhere close to that), but we're not. He hasn't looked too spry. Tootoo should have that spot this game. I don't know that it will be the difference either way, though.

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I don't understand what Eaves brings to the lineup. If we're going to play offensive non-factors, which is largely what Tootoo is, then I'd prefer non-factors that kill penalties instead of taking dumb ones. So, advantage Eaves in that regard. But I'd probably rather have Miller, and Tatar over both of them. You only need 4 forwards to kill penalties, and three of them should be Z, Datsyuk, and Emmerton. I don't find Eaves penalty killing to be particularly special, but Tatar's offensive contributions in limited playing time could be.

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I never liked the idea of relying on special teams to win games, even though it does happen. Our PK should be as best as it can be but I feel our 5 on 5 play needs to get the job done tonight.

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I agree with this. Eaves kills penalties. Tootoo doesn't. I would agree with the argument that Tootoo adds more benefit during 5 on 5 play than Eaves does. But, I think we're struggling more on special teams than we are at even strength and Tootoo doesn;t help special teams. I wish he was a good penalty killer.

I also agree that he should be in instead of Bert. I would not say this if we were talking about a 100% healthy Bert (or even somewhere close to that), but we're not. He hasn't looked too spry. Tootoo should have that spot this game. I don't know that it will be the difference either way, though.

Tootoo's penalty basically lost Game 1 for us. You can say it was a weak call, and you may be right, but the threshold for borderline calls on Tootoo will always be smaller because he is Jordin Tootoo. There's a reason he's been healthy scratched by Nashville and Detroit in consecutive years when the games REALLY matter.

I agree that there are times 5 on 5 when Tootoo seems to bring energy to the team. But the bad will ultimately outweigh the good. Fans see Tootoo and notice him because he's playing "differently" than the other guys. He runs people behind the play. He makes checks to make a statement. He fights if needs to fight. Fans assume these must be good things because guys like Bob Probert and Darren McCarty did those things. But those guys played in a different era, and they could actually play hockey with Top 6 forwards, if needed. Tootoo cannot. And if you don't do special teams as a Bottom 6 forward, you don't have a secure job in the playoffs.

barabbas16 likes this

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I don't understand what Eaves brings to the lineup. If we're going to play offensive non-factors, which is largely what Tootoo is, then I'd prefer non-factors that kill penalties instead of taking dumb ones. So, advantage Eaves in that regard. But I'd probably rather have Miller, and Tatar over both of them. You only need 4 forwards to kill penalties, and three of them should be Z, Datsyuk, and Emmerton. I don't find Eaves penalty killing to be particularly special, but Tatar's offensive contributions in limited playing time could be.

Mmm... I think you probably want to use Z and Dats on the PK as little as possible. This is not because they are bad at it, obviously. But you would prefer to not use your best offensive players in situations that have little chance for offense. The ideal scenario is having bottom 6 forwards that are your main PKers, in my opinion.... i.e. Miller, Eaves, Andersson, Helm, Abdelkader, etc. You want to use your top six guys on the PP. But we won't have Helm, Miller, or Abdelkader tonight. I don't see how you sit Eaves.

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I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this subject.

I personally believe Tootoo bring a lot more to this lineup then Eaves ever would. He brings a whole different aspect to the table, I struggle to see where eaves excels and what he brings to the team that Tootoo cant do just as good or better. Tootoo provides much more energy and causes turnovers and scrambles in front of the net.

We need some dirty goals.

Eaves is a quality penalty killer, a good energy player, and very good on defense. Tootoo is physical, yes, but he is also a defensive and behavioral liability.

thegerkin and Ally like this

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Tootoo's penalty basically lost Game 1 for us.

No.

To the OP, I think both Eaves and Tootoo play valuable roles within the team. If Bert isn't 100% and can't produce, the argument for having him in over either of them is silly.

Babcock, as much as I think he is one of the best coaches in the league, has let himself down a little this season with his odd line combinations. Keep it simple, keep it sensible. If it works, roll with it. Eaves-Emmerton-Tootoo worked, very well. No reason to change anything, especially not knee-jerk reactions after a bad game and especially not knee-jerk reactions to the only line which has worked consistently all season long.

My 2 cents. What do I know.

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No reason to sign Tootoo if you aren't going to play him in a tough, physical playoff series.

He brings more hitting and energy than our other lower line players.

This.

Doesn't make any sense to me. It's not like he's a goon that can't skate for his life. He can skate a regular shift and he's built for the playoffs. It shocks me that he isn't playing.

F.Michael likes this

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This.

Doesn't make any sense to me. It's not like he's a goon that can't skate for his life. He can skate a regular shift and he's built for the playoffs. It shocks me that he isn't playing.

Kenny Holland doesn't like violence in hockey. Makes him cringe.

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Kenny Holland doesn't like violence in hockey. Makes him cringe.

I think this obvious troll post should not be dignified with a response. It's almost as ridiculous as your comment about Marian Ilitch.

Edited by Crymson

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I think this obvious troll post should not be dignified with a response.

Who died and made you mod?

My point is that Holland's history shows that players like Tootoo are virtually obsolete. Even when they're more useful than other 4th liners at that role.

Holland's soft mentality is stuck in 2002, back when we had Hall of Famers on our 4th line.

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I think Tootoo is generally overrated. He just doesn't make that much of a contribution when he plays. He doesn't hit that often, he doesn't fight that often, he's not good defensively or offensively.

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I think Tootoo is generally overrated. He just doesn't make that much of a contribution when he plays. He doesn't hit that often, he doesn't fight that often, he's not good defensively or offensively.

He hits and fights more often than our other 4th liners.

I think he's done a good job this year filling his role. Nobody is overrating him. I believe a player like him should be in the lineup for a series like this.

Eaves can kill penalties, but so can many of our other forwards. He's hardly irreplaceable.

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Eaves definitely played well tonight, I can't imagine any lineup changes are coming after tonight's effort.

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