PumpIron 40 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this subject. I personally believe Tootoo bring a lot more to this lineup then Eaves ever would. He brings a whole different aspect to the table, I struggle to see where eaves excels and what he brings to the team that Tootoo cant do just as good or better. Tootoo provides much more energy and causes turnovers and scrambles in front of the net. We need some dirty goals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nosyt612 103 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I agree. I've never been a big Eaves fan and have always been in favour of Miller playing over him. I think Tootoo brings more to the lineup as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 Given that Bert isn't 100%, and how well Toots, Eaves, and Emmy did together, I'd play Toots over Bert. Sorry Bert. No offense intended. 3 Z Winged Dangler, esteef and Mors reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonballgtz 273 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I rather have eaves and tootoo in instead of Bert and Sammy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,457 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I don't think it's a matter of Eaves OR Tootoo. They both should be playing. You need Eaves because he kills penalties and Tootoo doesn't. But there's really no reason to play anyone else on the opposite wing other than Tootoo. Eaves-Emmy-Tootoo. Nuff said. Then put Bert or Sammy up with Dats and Z. 1 brett reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumpIron 40 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 True, it just seems if Eaves sits then Tootoo is in. visa versa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheDetroitRedWings 286 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 Completely agree with the OP. I love Babs and all, but sometimes I just don't understand his logic on certain things. Tootoo > Eaves and Cleary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I don't think it's a matter of Eaves OR Tootoo. They both should be playing. You need Eaves because he kills penalties and Tootoo doesn't. But there's really no reason to play anyone else on the opposite wing other than Tootoo. Eaves-Emmy-Tootoo. Nuff said. Then put Bert or Sammy up with Dats and Z. I agree with this. Eaves kills penalties. Tootoo doesn't. I would agree with the argument that Tootoo adds more benefit during 5 on 5 play than Eaves does. But, I think we're struggling more on special teams than we are at even strength and Tootoo doesn;t help special teams. I wish he was a good penalty killer. I also agree that he should be in instead of Bert. I would not say this if we were talking about a 100% healthy Bert (or even somewhere close to that), but we're not. He hasn't looked too spry. Tootoo should have that spot this game. I don't know that it will be the difference either way, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I don't understand what Eaves brings to the lineup. If we're going to play offensive non-factors, which is largely what Tootoo is, then I'd prefer non-factors that kill penalties instead of taking dumb ones. So, advantage Eaves in that regard. But I'd probably rather have Miller, and Tatar over both of them. You only need 4 forwards to kill penalties, and three of them should be Z, Datsyuk, and Emmerton. I don't find Eaves penalty killing to be particularly special, but Tatar's offensive contributions in limited playing time could be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedLightGoesOn 81 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I never liked the idea of relying on special teams to win games, even though it does happen. Our PK should be as best as it can be but I feel our 5 on 5 play needs to get the job done tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I agree with this. Eaves kills penalties. Tootoo doesn't. I would agree with the argument that Tootoo adds more benefit during 5 on 5 play than Eaves does. But, I think we're struggling more on special teams than we are at even strength and Tootoo doesn;t help special teams. I wish he was a good penalty killer. I also agree that he should be in instead of Bert. I would not say this if we were talking about a 100% healthy Bert (or even somewhere close to that), but we're not. He hasn't looked too spry. Tootoo should have that spot this game. I don't know that it will be the difference either way, though. Tootoo's penalty basically lost Game 1 for us. You can say it was a weak call, and you may be right, but the threshold for borderline calls on Tootoo will always be smaller because he is Jordin Tootoo. There's a reason he's been healthy scratched by Nashville and Detroit in consecutive years when the games REALLY matter. I agree that there are times 5 on 5 when Tootoo seems to bring energy to the team. But the bad will ultimately outweigh the good. Fans see Tootoo and notice him because he's playing "differently" than the other guys. He runs people behind the play. He makes checks to make a statement. He fights if needs to fight. Fans assume these must be good things because guys like Bob Probert and Darren McCarty did those things. But those guys played in a different era, and they could actually play hockey with Top 6 forwards, if needed. Tootoo cannot. And if you don't do special teams as a Bottom 6 forward, you don't have a secure job in the playoffs. 1 barabbas16 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I don't understand what Eaves brings to the lineup. If we're going to play offensive non-factors, which is largely what Tootoo is, then I'd prefer non-factors that kill penalties instead of taking dumb ones. So, advantage Eaves in that regard. But I'd probably rather have Miller, and Tatar over both of them. You only need 4 forwards to kill penalties, and three of them should be Z, Datsyuk, and Emmerton. I don't find Eaves penalty killing to be particularly special, but Tatar's offensive contributions in limited playing time could be. Mmm... I think you probably want to use Z and Dats on the PK as little as possible. This is not because they are bad at it, obviously. But you would prefer to not use your best offensive players in situations that have little chance for offense. The ideal scenario is having bottom 6 forwards that are your main PKers, in my opinion.... i.e. Miller, Eaves, Andersson, Helm, Abdelkader, etc. You want to use your top six guys on the PP. But we won't have Helm, Miller, or Abdelkader tonight. I don't see how you sit Eaves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fixxxer 11 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I would play any of our scratched forwards instead of Cleary. 1 TheDetroitRedWings reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I was wondering what people's thoughts were on this subject. I personally believe Tootoo bring a lot more to this lineup then Eaves ever would. He brings a whole different aspect to the table, I struggle to see where eaves excels and what he brings to the team that Tootoo cant do just as good or better. Tootoo provides much more energy and causes turnovers and scrambles in front of the net. We need some dirty goals. Eaves is a quality penalty killer, a good energy player, and very good on defense. Tootoo is physical, yes, but he is also a defensive and behavioral liability. 2 thegerkin and Ally reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 Id play Eaves over Cleary and then Tootoo can be in the line up as well. 1 DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 Tootoo's penalty basically lost Game 1 for us. No. To the OP, I think both Eaves and Tootoo play valuable roles within the team. If Bert isn't 100% and can't produce, the argument for having him in over either of them is silly. Babcock, as much as I think he is one of the best coaches in the league, has let himself down a little this season with his odd line combinations. Keep it simple, keep it sensible. If it works, roll with it. Eaves-Emmerton-Tootoo worked, very well. No reason to change anything, especially not knee-jerk reactions after a bad game and especially not knee-jerk reactions to the only line which has worked consistently all season long. My 2 cents. What do I know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 No reason to sign Tootoo if you aren't going to play him in a tough, physical playoff series. He brings more hitting and energy than our other lower line players. 2 F.Michael and hillbillywingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 No reason to sign Tootoo if you aren't going to play him in a tough, physical playoff series. He brings more hitting and energy than our other lower line players. This.Doesn't make any sense to me. It's not like he's a goon that can't skate for his life. He can skate a regular shift and he's built for the playoffs. It shocks me that he isn't playing. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 This. Doesn't make any sense to me. It's not like he's a goon that can't skate for his life. He can skate a regular shift and he's built for the playoffs. It shocks me that he isn't playing. Kenny Holland doesn't like violence in hockey. Makes him cringe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Kenny Holland doesn't like violence in hockey. Makes him cringe. I think this obvious troll post should not be dignified with a response. It's almost as ridiculous as your comment about Marian Ilitch. Edited May 6, 2013 by Crymson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I think this obvious troll post should not be dignified with a response. Who died and made you mod? My point is that Holland's history shows that players like Tootoo are virtually obsolete. Even when they're more useful than other 4th liners at that role. Holland's soft mentality is stuck in 2002, back when we had Hall of Famers on our 4th line. 3 TheDetroitRedWings, hillbillywingsfan and F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker Report post Posted May 6, 2013 I think Tootoo is generally overrated. He just doesn't make that much of a contribution when he plays. He doesn't hit that often, he doesn't fight that often, he's not good defensively or offensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted May 7, 2013 I think Tootoo is generally overrated. He just doesn't make that much of a contribution when he plays. He doesn't hit that often, he doesn't fight that often, he's not good defensively or offensively. He hits and fights more often than our other 4th liners. I think he's done a good job this year filling his role. Nobody is overrating him. I believe a player like him should be in the lineup for a series like this. Eaves can kill penalties, but so can many of our other forwards. He's hardly irreplaceable. 2 F.Michael and hillbillywingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted May 7, 2013 Eaves justified his spot tonight. 6 redwings15, nyqvististhefuture, T.Low and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted May 7, 2013 Eaves definitely played well tonight, I can't imagine any lineup changes are coming after tonight's effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites