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evilmrt

2013 Offseason Thread

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28 goals and 62 points in a full season? Terrible! :P

I know, on pace to have a career high in points and still led the team in goals. But then again, he disappears for long stretches all the time, which is why his longest goal scoring drought (7 games) is so much more unforgivable than Datsyuk's (11 games) or Zetterbergs (11 games). What a rapid decline!

Edited by kipwinger
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:ok:

Ok...Franzen slappies will be just that. Keep on wanting him here. Every year I give him plenty of chances to win me over, every year he fails. This year more than others... that pathetic poof shot at the goal against Chicago defines his status in my book.... You will always love him, I will never. If he never played here again, I would be the happiest Wings fan in the world.

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28 goals and 62 points in a full season? Terrible! :P

...and still only 6 points in the playoffs...in 14 games AND a team low -7... I don't what I am thinking....

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:ok:

Ok...Franzen slappies will be just that. Keep on wanting him here. Every year I give him plenty of chances to win me over, every year he fails. This year more than others... that pathetic poof shot at the goal against Chicago defines his status in my book.... You will always love him, I will never. If he never played here again, I would be the happiest Wings fan in the world.

Right. How could I fail to notice your open mindedness in between calling for him to be traded and feminizing his name (Franzine) for the last 3 years. You obviously give him a fair shake each year and he fails you by scoring more goals than anyone else on the team.

I know this may come as a surprise to you, but the fact that I can objectively look at a hockey player and come to the conclusion that he's a valuable contributor to his team does not mean I "love" him. I determine a player's worth based on his contributions to the team's success, while you (apparently) base it on some gut level love/hate dynamic.

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Right. How could I fail to notice your open mindedness in between calling for him to be traded and feminizing his name (Franzine) for the last 3 years. You obviously give him a fair shake each year and he fails you by scoring more goals than anyone else on the team.

I know this may come as a surprise to you, but the fact that I can objectively look at a hockey player and come to the conclusion that he's a valuable contributor to his team does not mean I "love" him. I determine a player's worth based on his contributions to the team's success, while you (apparently) base it on some gut level love/hate dynamic.

I have only called him that this year...I do objectively look at him. You and the other Franzen supporters are just hanging onto a thread that playoff Franzen will return...he hasn't. I don't care what he does in the regular season, he has become a playoff no-show...That is what the argument always is when we debate Hossa or Franzen...the last 27 playoff games (3 seasons) 10 points...he's done. Signed his "serious contract" and decided to start mailing it in when it counts...

Just nevermind, you will never win and neither will I.

Love him or hate, I am probably stuck watching him for the next 8 years...unless he suffers an injury (which he normally does during the season) that will make him retire early.... 28 goals is average in the NHL. I don't see why he is touted as so great and can't even top 30 goals, let alone sniff 50's underpants...he is a 3rd/4th liner, if not for Dats and Z he is an AHL'r probably already back playing in Sweden...

edit: BTW, Datsyuk had more goals than him this season...

Edited by LeftWinger

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I have only called him that this year...I do objectively look at him. You and the other Franzen supporters are just hanging onto a thread that playoff Franzen will return...he hasn't. I don't care what he does in the regular season, he has become a playoff no-show...That is what the argument always is when we debate Hossa or Franzen...the last 27 playoff games (3 seasons) 10 points...he's done. Signed his "serious contract" and decided to start mailing it in when it counts...

Just nevermind, you will never win and neither will I.

Love him or hate, I am probably stuck watching him for the next 8 years...unless he suffers an injury (which he normally does during the season) that will make him retire early.... 28 goals is average in the NHL. I don't see why he is touted as so great and can't even top 30 goals, let alone sniff 50's underpants...he is a 3rd/4th liner, if not for Dats and Z he is an AHL'r probably already back playing in Sweden...

edit: BTW, Datsyuk had more goals than him this season...

What a loser Franzen is, he should be more like your boy Hossa. That guy's a playoff monster. In his last 27 playoff games (three seasons) he's produced a whopping 11 points. Apparently the difference between a good player and bad player in your eyes is one assist. That's a pretty narrow margin of error for a guy who's supposedly giving Franzen a fair shake.

Edited by kipwinger

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What a loser that guy is, he should be more like your boy Hossa. That guy's a playoff monster. In his last 27 playoff games (three seasons) he's produced a whopping 11 points. Good call.

DUH! That is my point, when we debate "The Choice" the fact that Hossa is a playoff no-show is always brought up as the reason it was better to keep Franzen...but now with Franzen being a playoff no show, that isn't even mentioned because he scores 28 goals in a season... Either way, Hossa scores 40 and is a playoff no show, he sucks....Franzen score 28 and is a playoff no show, he is the best player on out team!

Am I understanding correctly?

Which takes me right back to what I said earlier.... Franzen Slappies...

Besides, Hossa has 14 points this playoff alone, he has 20 the last three seasons....before you try to be cool, get your facts right.

Edited by LeftWinger

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DUH! That is my point, when we debate "The Choice" the fact that Hossa is a playoff no-show is always brought up as the reason it was better to keep Franzen...but now with Franzen being a playoff no show, that isn't even mentioned because he scores 28 goals in a season... Either way, Hossa scores 40 and is a playoff no show, he sucks....Franzen score 28 and is a playoff no show, he is the best player on out team!

Am I understanding correctly?

Which takes me right back to what I said earlier.... Franzen Slappies...

Besides, Hossa has 14 points this playoff alone, he has 20 the last three seasons....before you try to be cool, get your facts right.

You're right, he's got twenty points in 27 games. Obviously ten points over three years is the difference between a superstar and a loser who should be playing in Sweden right now.

Also, nobody ever said Hossa sucks...ever. You're the guy who repeatedly says that Franzen sucks, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, and then calls everyone "slappies" or says we're in love with the guy when we suggest that maybe he's a much better hockey player than you make him out to be.

Edited by kipwinger

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I have only called him that this year...I do objectively look at him. You and the other Franzen supporters are just hanging onto a thread that playoff Franzen will return...he hasn't. I don't care what he does in the regular season, he has become a playoff no-show...That is what the argument always is when we debate Hossa or Franzen...the last 27 playoff games (3 seasons) 10 points...he's done. Signed his "serious contract" and decided to start mailing it in when it counts...

Just nevermind, you will never win and neither will I.

Love him or hate, I am probably stuck watching him for the next 8 years...unless he suffers an injury (which he normally does during the season) that will make him retire early.... 28 goals is average in the NHL. I don't see why he is touted as so great and can't even top 30 goals, let alone sniff 50's underpants...he is a 3rd/4th liner, if not for Dats and Z he is an AHL'r probably already back playing in Sweden...

edit: BTW, Datsyuk had more goals than him this season...

In 2011-2012 only 40 players scored 28 goals or more. In 2010-2011 only 37 did. That's an interesting concept of average.

I don't think many tout him as "so great." I do think that many see that he scores goals and therefore is a help to our team despite other deficiencies in his game.

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I'll be happy with Sammy and Bert gone.

Otherwise surprise us Kenny

Yes to this! ^

Buy out Bert and Sammy, let Fil and Cleary walk....

Agree,although have mixed emotions about Cleary.Understand the Wings want to keep him due his leadership role,but definitely don't understand why they want to give Filppula another and better contract especially with our good depth on center positions.

Buy out Bert and Sammy,give Tatar a chance and give a short term contract to 1 one of the veteran UFA wingers (Iginla,Ryder,Hemsky)until Jurčo gets ready.

Edited by pucktividi

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I said without Z and Dats, Franzen would be in the AHL or over in Sweden...so you think that without those two playoff Franzen even exists? If you do, then I feel sorry for you.

My point is, people bash Hossa because he fails to show up when needed in the playoffs...but now that Franzen does the same thing, it's no big deal because he still leads the team in goals every year....You cannot have it both ways. Call a spade a spade...Franzen mails it in when it counts. He is becoming a consistent playoff no-show, the evidence is there. I haven't pined for Hossa for a bit, as a matter of fact, in the Hossa thread I said that he would not be the answer we need to right our offensive woes. I haven't brought up the debate in a while, but felt I needed to when you brought up the fact that Franzen leads the team in the regular season every year, so that makes him great. Yet, when I pointed out that he has become a no show in the playoffs that didn't change your opinion, yet Hossa is not as good because of his playoff no show.

Which BTW, Hossa has more points this playoff than Franzen has the last 3...in 10 less games...Just maybe, maybe, Hossa is becoming a playoff beast... Just keep waiting for Playoff Franzen to show up, we'll leave the lights on for you...meanwhile enjoy the 25-29 goals he gives you in the regular season. I know Franzen will be here and accept that, besides it gives me someone to blame for our loses and to bash when he gets 6 points or less in the playoffs...

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I said without Z and Dats, Franzen would be in the AHL or over in Sweden...so you think that without those two playoff Franzen even exists? If you do, then I feel sorry for you.

My point is, people bash Hossa because he fails to show up when needed in the playoffs...but now that Franzen does the same thing, it's no big deal because he still leads the team in goals every year....You cannot have it both ways. Call a spade a spade...Franzen mails it in when it counts. He is becoming a consistent playoff no-show, the evidence is there. I haven't pined for Hossa for a bit, as a matter of fact, in the Hossa thread I said that he would not be the answer we need to right our offensive woes. I haven't brought up the debate in a while, but felt I needed to when you brought up the fact that Franzen leads the team in the regular season every year, so that makes him great. Yet, when I pointed out that he has become a no show in the playoffs that didn't change your opinion, yet Hossa is not as good because of his playoff no show.

Which BTW, Hossa has more points this playoff than Franzen has the last 3...in 10 less games...Just maybe, maybe, Hossa is becoming a playoff beast... Just keep waiting for Playoff Franzen to show up, we'll leave the lights on for you...meanwhile enjoy the 25-29 goals he gives you in the regular season. I know Franzen will be here and accept that, besides it gives me someone to blame for our loses and to bash when he gets 6 points or less in the playoffs...

Nobody bashes Hossa. I never said Franzen was "great". I never said Franzen was a better player. You're the only one that says things like a player "is great" or he "sucks". And you brought up "the choice" during the Chicago series which wasn't exactly "a while" ago.

It's impossible to discuss anything with someone who makes one gross exaggeration after the next and frequently puts words in people's mouths.

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Nobody bashes Hossa. I never said Franzen was "great". I never said Franzen was a better player. You're the only one that says things like a player "is great" or he "sucks". And you brought up "the choice" during the Chicago series which wasn't exactly "a while" ago.

It's impossible to discuss anything with someone who makes one gross exaggeration after the next and frequently puts words in people's mouths.

Go ahead and show me where I brought up the Choice....I even said that I would not discuss it, and would never bring it up again if Franzen outscored Hossa or we beat Chicago...

So black and white stats are a gross exaggeration...ok.

Its obvious, your man love is too large to ever see Franzen for what he is...like I said, just keep on waiting for him to show up when it counts. Meanwhile I will just keep on bashing him when he fails the team again...I don't even have to ever bring up Hossa again to see how bad Franzen is...plenty of players out there who make Franzen money who are better...

This has Eva loves Hudler all over it....

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I said without Z and Dats, Franzen would be in the AHL or over in Sweden...so you think that without those two playoff Franzen even exists? If you do, then I feel sorry for you.

My point is, people bash Hossa because he fails to show up when needed in the playoffs...but now that Franzen does the same thing, it's no big deal because he still leads the team in goals every year....You cannot have it both ways. Call a spade a spade...Franzen mails it in when it counts. He is becoming a consistent playoff no-show, the evidence is there. I haven't pined for Hossa for a bit, as a matter of fact, in the Hossa thread I said that he would not be the answer we need to right our offensive woes. I haven't brought up the debate in a while, but felt I needed to when you brought up the fact that Franzen leads the team in the regular season every year, so that makes him great. Yet, when I pointed out that he has become a no show in the playoffs that didn't change your opinion, yet Hossa is not as good because of his playoff no show.

Which BTW, Hossa has more points this playoff than Franzen has the last 3...in 10 less games...Just maybe, maybe, Hossa is becoming a playoff beast... Just keep waiting for Playoff Franzen to show up, we'll leave the lights on for you...meanwhile enjoy the 25-29 goals he gives you in the regular season. I know Franzen will be here and accept that, besides it gives me someone to blame for our loses and to bash when he gets 6 points or less in the playoffs...

I'm not sure why you keep trying to make this a Franzen vs Hossa debate. If you were originally arguing that Hossa is a better player than Franzen nobody would be taking issue with your stance at all.

Its your ridiculous assertion that Franzen isn't worthy of being in the NHL that people are correcting you on. Its as crazy as claiming he's the best player in the NHL.

You can disregard his regular season production all you want but those with an ounce of objectivity can easily see that without Franzen's production this year the Wings wouldn't even have been in the playoffs.

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Go ahead and show me where I brought up the Choice....I even said that I would not discuss it, and would never bring it up again if Franzen outscored Hossa or we beat Chicago...

So black and white stats are a gross exaggeration...ok.

Its obvious, your man love is too large to ever see Franzen for what he is...like I said, just keep on waiting for him to show up when it counts. Meanwhile I will just keep on bashing him when he fails the team again...I don't even have to ever bring up Hossa again to see how bad Franzen is...plenty of players out there who make Franzen money who are better...

This has Eva loves Hudler all over it....

Good god. When you post saying "I'll never bring it up again if Franzen outscores Hossa or if the Wings win", you're bringing it up. Which you did, a few short weeks ago. Again, I don't "love" hockey players. I love my dog Oliver. The fact that you keep saying it, along with your litany of additional name calling, doesn't make it so. But I do appreciate the mature debate.

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Go ahead and show me where I brought up the Choice....I even said that I would not discuss it, and would never bring it up again if Franzen outscored Hossa or we beat Chicago...

So black and white stats are a gross exaggeration...ok.

Its obvious, your man love is too large to ever see Franzen for what he is...like I said, just keep on waiting for him to show up when it counts. Meanwhile I will just keep on bashing him when he fails the team again...I don't even have to ever bring up Hossa again to see how bad Franzen is...plenty of players out there who make Franzen money who are better...

This has Eva loves Hudler all over it....

If anyone in this thread has an obsession with a player it's not kipwinger...LeftWinger Hates Franzen is a more fitting description

If you feel there are "plenty" of players out there who are better than Franzen making less money...feel free to list them. I assure you there are very very few, unless you count those on entry level contracts.

Edited by FlashyG

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Which BTW, Hossa has more points this playoff than Franzen has the last 3...in 10 less games...Just maybe, maybe, Hossa is becoming a playoff beast... Just keep waiting for Playoff Franzen to show up, we'll leave the lights on for you...meanwhile enjoy the 25-29 goals he gives you in the regular season. I know Franzen will be here and accept that, besides it gives me someone to blame for our loses and to bash when he gets 6 points or less in the playoffs...

In my opinion the debate here is rather simple...

Who is the better player? Hossa

Who is the better value? Franzen

When you consider the fact that Hossa's variance is also much higher as he is currently being paid $7.9 million in real dollars, Chicago is at a much higher cap risk moving forward. And by the way, since Hossa left Detroit his goal scoring numbers have been 24, 25, 29 and 17 (the same range you complained about Franzen being in annually) and he hasn't played a full season yet.

I guess my point is that although Franzen is painfully inconsistent and may have overachieved in his early years as a Wing, especially in the playoffs - you would stillmbe hard pressed to find a player signed long term at 3.9 million who is as productive.

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I do hate Franzen, which is why I want him traded. That is how all this started.

Kip said something to the effect that it would be stupid to trade the guy who leads our team in goals every year. I then pointed out that he may do that, but is a no show in the playoffs. Much like when the debate about Hossa and Franzen was hot. The argument was, Hossa scores in the regular season and is a playoff no show, but Franzen is a playoff beast. So now that Franzen has turned into a playoff no show, people refuse to talk bad about him, the same way they talked bad about Hossa. I just called a slappy out is all.

I have no issue never comparing Franzen and Hossa again, I said that already when the 2nd round started. The ONLY reason his name was mentioned was because of the playoff no show comparison... So the bottom line is, Franzen has become what nobody wanted Hossa here for, a playoff no show, but for some reason, Franzen gets a pass...That is fine. I cannot convince people who like him otherwise, just like they cannot convince me...

I sure would rather have Dupuis, Burrows, Voracek, or Chris Stewart over Franzen. All of which are in Franzen range of money...and earn it.



If Franzen scored 29 goals a season and kept that consistency up in the playoffs, I could give him a pass. But ever since he signed his contract, he has become useless when it counts.

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I do hate Franzen, which is why I want him traded. That is how all this started.

Kip said something to the effect that it would be stupid to trade the guy who leads our team in goals every year. I then pointed out that he may do that, but is a no show in the playoffs. Much like when the debate about Hossa and Franzen was hot. The argument was, Hossa scores in the regular season and is a playoff no show, but Franzen is a playoff beast. So now that Franzen has turned into a playoff no show, people refuse to talk bad about him, the same way they talked bad about Hossa. I just called a slappy out is all.

I have no issue never comparing Franzen and Hossa again, I said that already when the 2nd round started. The ONLY reason his name was mentioned was because of the playoff no show comparison... So the bottom line is, Franzen has become what nobody wanted Hossa here for, a playoff no show, but for some reason, Franzen gets a pass...That is fine. I cannot convince people who like him otherwise, just like they cannot convince me...

I sure would rather have Dupuis, Burrows, Voracek, or Chris Stewart over Franzen. All of which are in Franzen range of money...and earn it.

No I suggested it would be stupid to trade our leading scorer for Shawn Horcroff, which you had stated you'd be happy to do. Please stop misquoting me in an attempt to justify yourself post hoc.

Also, again with the name calling. Isn't that supposed to be frowned upon around here (as well as in the better part of adult human society).

Edited by kipwinger

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I said without Z and Dats, Franzen would be in the AHL or over in Sweden...so you think that without those two playoff Franzen even exists? If you do, then I feel sorry for you.

Yikes. There's an arbitrary declaration if I've ever heard one. Did Franzen do something to you?

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