kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) It's been said before so ill say it again please show me where we can replace mules goals with someone not on an entry contract and for under 4 million ( this player has to be Ava this off season ) ? Anyone ? Kind of agree, for a high 20 goal scorer he is cheap. Although I would like to see Franzen step up more. His laziness is so annoying sometimes. He could be an easy 40 goal scorer if he hustled a little more. Sadly he's only hit 30 goals 2 times in his career and probably won't hit it again as he gets older. Crazier stuffs happened though so lets hope. Edited June 3, 2013 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Kind of agree, for a high 20 goal scorer he is cheap. Although I would like to see Franzen step up more. His laziness is so annoying sometimes. He could be an easy 40 goal scorer if he hustled a little more. Sadly he's only hit 30 goals 2 times in his career and probably won't hit it again as he gets older. Crazier stuffs happened though so lets hope. Once. I think he he hit once if I remember right when I looked last night. Not including playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Franzen is untradeable. End of story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Franzen is untradeable. End of story. We know this. But yet people think he is worth his contract. Kind of ass back words. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 We know this. But yet people think he is worth his contract. Kind of ass back words. A big strong forward who consistently scores over 25 goals a year for $4m a year would be easily tradeable. We need more big guys who can score goals so it would be foolish to get rid of the one that we do have. What is kinda ass backwards is suggesting to get rid of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Once. I think he he hit once if I remember right when I looked last night. Not including playoffs. But he has also scored 27, 28 and 29 goals in seasons in which he didn't play the full schedule and has led one of the top scoring teams in goals in 2 of the last 3 seasons and was 1 goal away from doing it this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Kind of agree, for a high 20 goal scorer he is cheap. Although I would like to see Franzen step up more. His laziness is so annoying sometimes. He could be an easy 40 goal scorer if he hustled a little more. Sadly he's only hit 30 goals 2 times in his career and probably won't hit it again as he gets older. Crazier stuffs happened though so lets hope. In the last full season (2011-12) there were only 4 40 goal scorers and Franzen actually scored more goals than one (Gaborik) of them this year and of those 4 only one of them scored 40 in the previous year. Franzen is not as good as those guys and doesn't get payed nearly as much (and doesn't get as much ice-time or PP time as them) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 As time goes by the NHL will likely have to address situations like that of Pronger. Philly is guilty of a pretty blatant circumvention of the intention of the cap (note that circumventing the intention of the contract rather than the letter of the contract is a much different thing, and likely not something you can penalize). As it stands it's pretty clear Pronger isn't actively moving toward anything but retirement and the only reason he hasn't retired is to keep his contract off the books. Now because he couldn't likely pass a physical (not that most active NHL players his age likely can pass a standard physical) the NHLPA could easily protest any action taken against him the NHL's hands appeared tied. What I'd like to see is this: if a player misses an entire season due to injury without retiring their contract slides forward another year (the team would still have to pay them for the injured year but that's something they insure contracts against anyway so owner complaints would fall on deaf ears). This should definitely be appealable based on circumstance. In Pronger's case I could imagine a legitimate appeal based on the fact that his contract is so obnoxiously long sliding it forward another year would be a significant penalty in terms of having to pay a player farther into their declining years. On the other hand it's hard to feel bad for Philly when the sign a player that old to such a long term contract that is so clearly designed to circumvent the cap. The Pronger and Luongo contracts really stretched the premise of Holland's Franzen/Zetterberg contracts thin. With the Z/Franzen contracts they were signing a relatively young, pending UFA they drafted to contract the player would likely play out (expiring as a 40 year old). With Pronger and Luongo it was pretty clear neither player would be playing until they were 43 years old. That extra 3 years is a huge difference. Hell, in Pronger's case he signed the contract as a 35+ meaning the team would be on the hook no matter what. And by "no matter what" I mean "unless they pretend he's just working through an injury for five and a half straight years". Pronger played 13 games last season and zero this season. It's pretty absurd at this point to keep pretending he's going to make a magic come back as a 39 year old player next season who hasn't played in almost 2 years. Each team gets 2 amnesty style buy outs of contracts signed before the current CBA. Philly is not circumventing the intention of the cap as I am sure they would rather have a healthy Pronger playing than on the LTIR. You can't penalize a team for signing a player who can't play because of career ending injuries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted June 3, 2013 A big strong forward who consistently scores over 25 goals a year for $4m a year would be easily tradeable. We need more big guys who can score goals so it would be foolish to get rid of the one that we do have. What is kinda ass backwards is suggesting to get rid of him. He's not strong. He's just big. In fact, I have never seen a bigger man than Franzen play smaller. Him getting smashed, Chicago getting ghe puck, and then Chicago scoring is a microcosm of our problem. Same thing happened to Nyquist on the series winner. We need guys who are strong on the puck. Franzen is not this. He's a sissy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 He's not strong. He's just big. In fact, I have never seen a bigger man than Franzen play smaller. Him getting smashed, Chicago getting ghe puck, and then Chicago scoring is a microcosm of our problem. Same thing happened to Nyquist on the series winner. We need guys who are strong on the puck. Franzen is not this. He's a sissy. Blinded by hate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 It's been said before so ill say it again please show me where we can replace mules goals with someone not on an entry contract and for under 4 million ( this player has to be Ava this off season ) ? Anyone ? Pascal Dupuis....end of story. It's been said before so ill say it again please show me where we can replace mules goals with someone not on an entry contract and for under 4 million ( this player has to be Ava this off season ) ? Anyone ? Pascal Dupuis....end of story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Last time Pascal Dupuis scored 30 goals, he was in junior with Shawinigan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Last time Pascal Dupuis scored 30 goals, he was in junior with Shawinigan. Yet, he just scored 20 in 48 games which had him on pace for 34 in 82 games... The question wasn't who can score 30 goals (because Franzen cannot even do that.) The question was show them someone who could replace Franzen's goals that is not on a EL contract and is available this July.... Pascal Dupuis....and he only makes $1.5M. Edited June 3, 2013 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedLightGoesOn 81 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Franzen's point production is only helped by the fact that he can have multi goal/point games in streaks. Sure. He does his job just frequently enough to maintain decent averages but when you look beyond the numbers he is useless. His playoff production is a joke, and that's what also matters. In general Franzen just sits around and shoots the puck, this might have worked for Brett Hull in his later years (especially in Detroit) but things are way different and we can't sign superstars to all 4 lines anymore. Franzen's average point production is good, and we would be hard pressed to find that kind of production for an affordable price. Finding a replacement is hard, and it just disgusts me that we are stuck with him on the top 6. Has anyone considered what Franzen's numbers would be elsewhere? What about someone else who is below Franzen's PPG average, could they out produce Franzen on this team? I would rather take someone who skates, checks, etc, -- plays with more effort because chances are they will produce more consistently and less streaky What good is a player who the team depends upon as a top 6, who helps you get into the playoffs and then becomes invisible? It is sort of a Catch 22 marred by his contract length and price. Edited June 3, 2013 by RedLightGoesOn 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsfan4795 552 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 Pascal Dupuis - Sidney Crosby = average second/third liner at best How can you guys be so blinded by stats that you cant see that he isn't even very good? This article pretty much sums up my feelings about pascal dupuis and his potential http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/51699-Value-of-Pascal-Dupuis.html 1 RedLightGoesOn reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedLightGoesOn 81 Report post Posted June 3, 2013 It's been said before so ill say it again please show me where we can replace mules goals with someone not on an entry contract and for under 4 million ( this player has to be Ava this off season ) ? Anyone ? Look at Dupuis's +/- the last 3 seasons and playoffs. They are way better than Franzen's. This year Dupuis has been on a surge, but he also plays on the top line with Crosby and Kunitz. Maybe Dupuis's line mates (and division) also helps his +/-, but he would be on a top line here as well. I look at PPG and +/- to determine how effective a player is. Franzen's higher PPG can be negated by his +/-. Is that worth the cap hit? Dupuis may not have Franzen's numbers but Dupuis's +/- tell me that he can do more than just shoot the puck, making him more valuable in a team game. Also, Dupuis is 1 year older than Franzen, so buyer beware. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted June 4, 2013 Blinded by hate. Dude, I want to like Franzen. Believe me. But the Bickells and Clearys are the guys scoring the goals. Not Franzen. Why? Because they CRASH and BANG. Franzen is like the purple grimace out there. Just a giant ball of softness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nhurdi 42 Report post Posted June 4, 2013 A couple points from my train of thought on this. The problem is inflation. Franzen at his cap hit looks nice now and even more so a few years from now if he can keep his production at a level that he is at. Sign a new guy now and the inflation from others will price them higher than what Franzen makes now. Ryan O'Reilly for instance, every scrub in the league is going to cite that contract as to why they need to make 5 mill per season. So while Pascal may make 1.5 now, i'm confident his contract next year will be higher than Franzen's unless he takes a home team discount. If he leaves town for more money I'm confident he will learn his success was largely due to who he played with. Just like years past with all the players that left the Sedin line (Anson Carter, Taylor Pyatt) or any line with great talent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted June 4, 2013 Pascal Dupuis - Sidney Crosby = average second/third liner at best How can you guys be so blinded by stats that you cant see that he isn't even very good? This article pretty much sums up my feelings about pascal dupuis and his potential http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/51699-Value-of-Pascal-Dupuis.html This has got to be the most rose colored post I have read in a while! So if Dupuis - Crosby = Average player 2nd or 3rd liner.....then WTF does that make Franzen - Datsyuk & Zetterberg? Holey crap! Dastyuk and Zetterberg created playoff Franzen! If he didn't have those two he may not even be on this team, let alone a 3rd liner.... You say we are blinded by stats, but you are blinded by the Winged Wheel. Besides, isn't this argument about how good Franzen's STATS are for his cap hit?!?! I may be wrong, but I though that is the argument, his stats are great for his low cap hit....which his stats aren't that great anyhow...but whatever makes you sleep at night. Am I blind or is Franzen not playing in the playoffs right now? If he was so great he would have put at least one goal in games 6 or 7 on the PP or something to eliminate the Hawks... Give me Dupuis on Datsyuk's line 100 times over Franzen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted June 4, 2013 This has got to be the most rose colored post I have read in a while! So if Dupuis - Crosby = Average player 2nd or 3rd liner.....then WTF does that make Franzen - Datsyuk & Zetterberg? Holey crap! Dastyuk and Zetterberg created playoff Franzen! If he didn't have those two he may not even be on this team, let alone a 3rd liner.... You say we are blinded by stats, but you are blinded by the Winged Wheel. Besides, isn't this argument about how good Franzen's STATS are for his cap hit?!?! I may be wrong, but I though that is the argument, his stats are great for his low cap hit....which his stats aren't that great anyhow...but whatever makes you sleep at night. Am I blind or is Franzen not playing in the playoffs right now? If he was so great he would have put at least one goal in games 6 or 7 on the PP or something to eliminate the Hawks... Give me Dupuis on Datsyuk's line 100 times over Franzen... No hitting, No fighting, No scoring. Bottom line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saven 48 Report post Posted June 5, 2013 Pascal dupuis the same one who has had 3 seasons of 20+ goals in his career and never led his team in goals ? That pascal dupuis ? Because I said a guy who could replace mules scoring not a guy who's had two good years playing on a stacked team. If you wanna cherry pick yrs you can make a lot of bad players look good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) Pascal dupuis the same one who has had 3 seasons of 20+ goals in his career and never led his team in goals ? That pascal dupuis ? Because I said a guy who could replace mules scoring not a guy who's had two good years playing on a stacked team. If you wanna cherry pick yrs you can make a lot of bad players look good. ....again, without the team Franzen has played on, he is not in the NHL. Without Dats and Z, Franzen is nothing, besides, if I am cherry picking years, then what are you doing? Franzen has had a whole 1 more season than Dupuis with 20+ goals. The year he scored 34 is the year that they had Hossa as well, along with Norris Nick, Brad Stuart & Brian Rafalski....talk about a stacked team... Franzen slappies are funny.... edit: Frankly, where has this team gone since 2009 WITH Franzen? When it becomes stale, it doesn't matter how many goals he scores in a 10 game spurt (then disappear for a month) it's time for a change. Franzen is going to get tossed around in the East. This team needs change to take it to the next level. If Franzen was any good anymore, Chicago would be watching him play against LA. Up 3 games to 1 and Franzen is a playoff no-show (again) and we lose the series. Edited June 5, 2013 by LeftWinger 1 BuckeyeWingsfan80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted June 5, 2013 Why does everyone talk about the east like it is a war zone? St Louis, Crosby, Briere, Montreal. Each conference has wimps and each one has bruisers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted June 5, 2013 Why does everyone talk about the east like it is a war zone? St Louis, Crosby, Briere, Montreal. Each conference has wimps and each one has bruisers. Well, because Franzen plays smaller than any of those guys you mentioned... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted June 5, 2013 14 goals in 41 games this year which equates to 28 goals for a season. Only Pavel had more goals and he played more games. I get that he "floats" sometimes but no way any GM would buy out Franzen. Try and be logical people. I'd do it - this team needs an attitude adjustment. They won't be getting rid of Kronner/Dats/Z for obvious reasons, so the next tier down is what needs to change. that next tier is Fil/Franzen/Sammy/Bert - basically all veterans who have either out-lived their usefulness due to age/injury or because they don't play with enough grit/passion/determination and they don't consistently bring the same effort every game. Franzen just isn't the same player that he was when he signed that contract. when the effort is there he still is, but it took 40 games for it to show up in the regular season and then it disappeared again once the playoffs started. that is entirely unacceptable. Wrong. He had 28 goals this year (prorated) which is about the same as he has averaged through the last several years. Facts, people, facts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
