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Franzen Buyout?


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Poll: Franzen Buyout?

Would you use an amnesty buyout on Franzen this summer?

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#81 DeGraa55

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:53 PM

Why do we need 2 of those 3 guys?
 
I like Horton as much as anyone but even at his absolute best he's only going to match what Franzen produces not exceed it. Clarkson is even more of a gamble considering his career average before his 30 goal season is around 15 a season.  Bickell is an upgrade on Abdelkader but you can add up every goal he's scored in his NHL career and only be slightly ahead of 1 season of Franzen's production.
 
On top of that, Horton and Clarkson are both going to cost more than Flip wants, and likely a few million more than Franzen for what at best will be the same production.
 
Contrary to the saying, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.



So you made the mistake of thinking hockey only involves goals which it doesn't. It also involves check,ing, forchecking, back checking, fighting etc etc

Franzen does nothing but score and even that isn't consistent. Bickell even if he is not getting goals will be a physical prescense and will screen the goalie. Clarkson is much better all around then franzen.


And yes they will cost more that's why we need two and franzen gone. To improve the overall team.


But once again it makes too much sense and it won't happen. Remember? "We like our team". Same old beat up guys every with little to no changes and we expect better results!

#82 FlashyG

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:22 PM

So you made the mistake of thinking hockey only involves goals which it doesn't. It also involves check,ing, forchecking, back checking, fighting etc etc

Franzen does nothing but score and even that isn't consistent. Bickell even if he is not getting goals will be a physical prescense and will screen the goalie. Clarkson is much better all around then franzen.


And yes they will cost more that's why we need two and franzen gone. To improve the overall team.


But once again it makes too much sense and it won't happen. Remember? "We like our team". Same old beat up guys every with little to no changes and we expect better results!

 

You win a hockey game only by outscoring your opposition, out hitting, out forechecking and out fighting is nice, but if you do all that and get outscored you still lose.

 

Franzen is guilty of floating, and of not playing as physically as he's capable of but he is one of the most consistent goal scorers in the entire league.

 

Clarkson is not a better player than him, he's had a hot season and a half but if you think Franzen is inconsistent then you're going to be sorely disappointed by Clarkson who before last season had never even hit 20 goals in a year. He's hardly worth the 5-6 million a season he's going to cost.

 

If you want to add a Bickell, you can easily do that without letting Franzen go, but Bickell is not going to make the top 6 any better. The only one of the players you mentioned who would be worth pursuing for a top 6 spot would be Horton, and we'd be better served having him and Franzen. Rather than him and Bickell, or him and Clarkson.  



#83 DeGraa55

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:39 AM

You win a hockey game only by outscoring your opposition, out hitting, out forechecking and out fighting is nice, but if you do all that and get outscored you still lose.
 
Franzen is guilty of floating, and of not playing as physically as he's capable of but he is one of the most consistent goal scorers in the entire league.
 
Clarkson is not a better player than him, he's had a hot season and a half but if you think Franzen is inconsistent then you're going to be sorely disappointed by Clarkson who before last season had never even hit 20 goals in a year. He's hardly worth the 5-6 million a season he's going to cost.
 
If you want to add a Bickell, you can easily do that without letting Franzen go, but Bickell is not going to make the top 6 any better. The only one of the players you mentioned who would be worth pursuing for a top 6 spot would be Horton, and we'd be better served having him and Franzen. Rather than him and Bickell, or him and Clarkson.




Sorry stopped reading when you said franzen is most consistent goal scorer. Then I realized you're trolling me...

#84 b.shanafan14

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:45 AM

Sorry stopped reading when you said franzen is most consistent goal scorer. Then I realized you're trolling me...

 

Don't mean to jump on you here, but I have to agree. Franzen's god-send the last few season has been a handful of huge games punctuating long stretches of consistent nothing. Those rare games when he actually plays up to his ability are the one's that further frustrate us fans and management.

 

In 2010-2011 season, for instance, he scored 5 goals in one game against Ottawa in February, then proceeded to do nothing for the next 2 months. No goals, no hustle, completely invisible. Without that one game, Franzen goes from an admirable 28 goals to a trifle 23 goals on the season. 28 goals is misleading because when we look at season totals we tend to automatically assume consistent distribution, with some peaks and valleys, but for the most part an even contribution throughout. That season he used over 1/6th of his total output (and effort from what I saw) for the season to help the Wings secure 2 points in the standings.

 

He has been guilty of similar stat-padding efforts in seasons ever since, showing up for a handful of games before going on vacation again. When I see those stretches compared to the vast majority, it feels like he is doing just enough statistically to keep his ass off the bench.



#85 lwing

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

Why doesn't Franzen get more of the tough Babcock love (Flip too)? He started a bit last year by publicly calling out Franzen on effort and that was kind of a shock (since Babs seemed to only do that for Hudler). 



#86 The Axe

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:01 AM

Why doesn't Franzen get more of the tough Babcock love (Flip too)? He started a bit last year by publicly calling out Franzen on effort and that was kind of a shock (since Babs seemed to only do that for Hudler). 


Because he knows it will fall on deaf ears. Franzen's contract means he can do whatever he wants.

#87 RedLightGoesOn

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

Can we just go ahead and label Franzen the new Robert Lang? I'm half kidding and half serious.


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#88 The Axe

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

Can we just go ahead and label Franzen the new Robert Lang? I'm half kidding and half serious.


Bertuzzi was the new Lang. Franzen is the new Bertuzzi. 235 lbs of mush.

#89 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

If you need to support Franzen by saying he's consistent at anything other than floating, you're wasting our time and your bandwidth.


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#90 FlashyG

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

Sorry stopped reading when you said franzen is most consistent goal scorer. Then I realized you're trolling me...

 

Franzen's Goal production since his 2nd year in the league.

 

27 in 72 games (1 goal every 2,6 games)

34 in 71 games (1 goal every 2.1 games)

10 in 27 games (1 goal every 2.7 games)

28 in 76 games (1 goal every 2.7 games)

29 in 77 games (1 goal every 2.6 games)

14 in 41 games (1 goal every 2.9 games)

 

By comparison here is Clarkson's goal scoring numbers over that same time frame.

 

9 in 81 games .(1 goal every 9 games)

17 in 82 games (1 goal every 4.8 games)

11 in 46 games (1 goal every 4,2 games)

12 in 82 games (1 goal every 6.8 games)

30 in 80 games (1 goal every 2.6 games),

15 in 48 games (1 goal every 3.2 games)

 

Clarkson's absolute best pace is the same as Franzen's Average. Mule may not be the best scorer in the league, he may be capable of even more, and he may not give as much effort as we want him too, but he is absolutely consistent in what he produces. 



#91 DeGraa55

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:19 PM

Franzen's Goal production since his 2nd year in the league.
 
27 in 72 games (1 goal every 2,6 games)
34 in 71 games (1 goal every 2.1 games)
10 in 27 games (1 goal every 2.7 games)
28 in 76 games (1 goal every 2.7 games)
29 in 77 games (1 goal every 2.6 games)
14 in 41 games (1 goal every 2.9 games)
 
By comparison here is Clarkson's goal scoring numbers over that same time frame.
 
9 in 81 games .(1 goal every 9 games)
17 in 82 games (1 goal every 4.8 games)
11 in 46 games (1 goal every 4,2 games)
12 in 82 games (1 goal every 6.8 games)
30 in 80 games (1 goal every 2.6 games),
15 in 48 games (1 goal every 3.2 games)
 
Clarkson's absolute best pace is the same as Franzen's Average. Mule may not be the best scorer in the league, he may be capable of even more, and he may not give as much effort as we want him too, but he is absolutely consistent in what he produces.



OK you read box scores not actually watch games.



Here I'll make it simple for you hopefully you can comprehend it.

Example a. Guy score 5 goals each game for 6 games but does nothing the other 76 games. Doesn't back check forcheck hit fight or anything. But he has 30 goals at end of season.

Example b. Guy scores 30 goals in 30 games. He also checks and back checks fore checks etc etc.


So they both average 30 goals at end of year. One is consistent one is not. Can you figure it out now?


I mean come on its not rocket science.

#92 The Axe

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:31 PM

OK you read box scores not actually watch games.


I want the guy who scores 30 in 30.


Here I'll make it simple for you hopefully you can comprehend it.

Example a. Guy score 5 goals each game for 6 games but does nothing the other 76 games. Doesn't back check forcheck hit fight or anything. But he has 30 goals at end of season.

Example b. Guy scores 30 goals in 30 games. He also checks and back checks fore checks etc etc.


So they both average 30 goals at end of year. One is consistent one is not. Can you figure it out now?


I mean come on its not rocket science.



#93 FlashyG

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:57 PM

OK you read box scores not actually watch games.



Here I'll make it simple for you hopefully you can comprehend it.

Example a. Guy score 5 goals each game for 6 games but does nothing the other 76 games. Doesn't back check forcheck hit fight or anything. But he has 30 goals at end of season.

Example b. Guy scores 30 goals in 30 games. He also checks and back checks fore checks etc etc.


So they both average 30 goals at end of year. One is consistent one is not. Can you figure it out now?


I mean come on its not rocket science.

 

I love how people disregard facts when they disagree with their clearly incorrect argument.

The reason you are wrong is that you seem to be thinking only in the short term. Every player in the NHL is inconsistent if you are grading them game to game. The #'s that matter is what they put up over the course of a season.

 

Franzen is a streaky scorer (Every goal scorer is) so he's not going to score every game, but he'll consistently put up the same #'s every year. 

 

Whether he gets his goals in bursts of 5 or 6 in a couple of games and none in the next few the end result is a consistent 25-30 goals a season. 

 

The longest Franzen went without a goal this season was 7 games, for Clarkson it was 13 games, for Horton it was 8.

 

Even by your standard Franzen is the most consistent of those 3, so please spare me your personal attacks and condescension



#94 DeGraa55

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

I love how people disregard facts when they disagree with their clearly incorrect argument.

The reason you are wrong is that you seem to be thinking only in the short term. Every player in the NHL is inconsistent if you are grading them game to game. The #'s that matter is what they put up over the course of a season.
 
Franzen is a streaky scorer (Every goal scorer is) so he's not going to score every game, but he'll consistently put up the same #'s every year. 
 
Whether he gets his goals in bursts of 5 or 6 in a couple of games and none in the next few the end result is a consistent 25-30 goals a season. 
 
The longest Franzen went without a goal this season was 7 games, for Clarkson it was 13 games, for Horton it was 8.
 
Even by your standard Franzen is the most consistent of those 3, so please spare me your personal attacks and condescension




I'm just going to stop. You just showed me as well as everyone else you're a troll. You think 6 games with 5 goals is more consistent than 30 games with 1 goal over the course of a season.

I understand you have a thing for franzen. So much do you let it get in the way of numbers. I wasn't even using specific players just a random example with random numbers.


Edited by Jedi, 01 June 2013 - 11:04 PM.
Removed inappropriate language


#95 FlashyG

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

I'm just going to stop. You just showed me as well as everyone else you're a troll. You think 6 games with 5 goals is more consistent than 30 games with 1 goal over the course of a season.

I understand you have a thing for franzen. So much do you let it get in the way of numbers. I wasn't even using specific players just a random example with random numbers.

 

Once again you disregard facts and resort to name calling and attacks. 

 

I'm discussing the topic of the thread, and I'm happy to back up my opinions with factual evidence. I'm not attempting to start an argument, but I'm not going to shy away from one either, especially when I believe someone is making ridiculously incorrect statements.

 

You took issue with me saying Franzen is consistent and you suggested buying him out to sign 2 of Bickell, Horton and Clarkson. I've backed up my argument showing you that not only is he the most consistent of the 3 by my definition of consistent, he's also more consistent by your definition. 

 

The irony in your last sentence is mind blowing, you think I'M the one letting my feelings toward a player get in the way of numbers when you have completely disregarded every number posted in this thead out of your clear disdain for Franzen. I've already stated the many flaws I find in Franzen's game, his consistency isn't one of them.



#96 hardcoretom21

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:50 PM

Holland chose to keep Franzen over Hossa in '09. I still agree with this
Only breathing is more important than winning

"For most of a decade, the Wings were the most popular team not just because they won, but also because they won with flair, with speedy Russians and legendary leaders and the occasional willing fighter"

#97 Doc Holliday

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:05 PM

Franzen kills kittens, guys. It's quite obvious and I don't understand how some of you can't see it.


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#98 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:11 PM

Franzen buyout is complete nonsense.

 

s***e thread.



#99 DeGraa55

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:39 PM

Franzen buyout is complete nonsense.
 
s***e thread.



Agreed. It won't happen. And we will regret it down the road.

#100 blgillett

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:11 PM

Were else will you find a play of the Mule's caliber for the money he makes. I know he wasn't consistent this year but he still one of our top goal scorer
"He was standing there like a cigar store Indian" Mickey Redmond
"Holmstrom gets more attention around the net than a pretty girl around closing time!" Mickey Redmond
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