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Franzen Buyout?


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Poll: Franzen Buyout?

Would you use an amnesty buyout on Franzen this summer?

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#141 wingsfan4795

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:29 PM

Pascal Dupuis - Sidney Crosby = average second/third liner at best

 

How can you guys be so blinded by stats that you cant see that he isn't even very good?

 

This article pretty much sums up my feelings about pascal dupuis and his potential

http://www.thehockey...cal-Dupuis.html


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#142 RedLightGoesOn

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:34 PM

It's been said before so ill say it again please show me where we can replace mules goals with someone not on an entry contract and for under 4 million ( this player has to be Ava this off season ) ? Anyone ?

 

Look at Dupuis's +/- the last 3 seasons and playoffs. They are way better than Franzen's.  This year Dupuis has been on a surge, but he also plays on the top line with Crosby and Kunitz. Maybe Dupuis's line mates (and division) also helps his +/-, but he would be on a top line here as well.

 

I look at PPG and +/- to determine how effective a player is. Franzen's higher PPG can be negated by his +/-. Is that worth the cap hit? Dupuis may not have Franzen's numbers but Dupuis's +/- tell me that he can do more than just shoot the puck, making him more valuable in a team game.

 

Also, Dupuis is 1 year older than Franzen, so buyer beware.


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#143 The Axe

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:35 PM

Blinded by hate.


Dude, I want to like Franzen. Believe me. But the Bickells and Clearys are the guys scoring the goals. Not Franzen. Why? Because they CRASH and BANG. Franzen is like the purple grimace out there. Just a giant ball of softness.

#144 Nhurdi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:29 PM

A couple points from my train of thought on this.

 

The problem is inflation. Franzen at his cap hit looks nice now and even more so a few years from now if he can keep his production at a level that he is at. Sign a new guy now and the inflation from others will price them higher than what Franzen makes now.

 

Ryan O'Reilly for instance, every scrub in the league is going to cite that contract as to why they need to make 5 mill per season.

 

So while Pascal may make 1.5 now, i'm confident his contract next year will be higher than Franzen's unless he takes a home team discount. If he leaves town for more money I'm confident he will learn his success was largely due to who he played with. Just like years past with all the players that left the Sedin line (Anson Carter, Taylor Pyatt) or any line with great talent.



#145 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:02 PM

Pascal Dupuis - Sidney Crosby = average second/third liner at best

 

How can you guys be so blinded by stats that you cant see that he isn't even very good?

 

This article pretty much sums up my feelings about pascal dupuis and his potential

http://www.thehockey...cal-Dupuis.html

 

:blink:

 

This has got to be the most rose colored post I have read in a while!

 

So if Dupuis - Crosby = Average player 2nd or 3rd liner.....then WTF does that make Franzen - Datsyuk & Zetterberg? Holey crap! Dastyuk and Zetterberg created playoff Franzen! If he didn't have those two he may not even be on this team, let alone a 3rd liner....

 

You say we are blinded by stats, but you are blinded by the Winged Wheel.  Besides, isn't this argument about how good Franzen's STATS are for his cap hit?!?!  I may be wrong, but I though that is the argument, his stats are great for his low cap hit....which his stats aren't that great anyhow...but whatever makes you sleep at night.  Am I blind or is Franzen not playing in the playoffs right now? If he was so great he would have put at least one goal in games 6 or 7 on the PP or something to eliminate the Hawks...

 

Give me Dupuis on Datsyuk's line 100 times over Franzen...


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#146 The Axe

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:24 PM

 
:blink:
 
This has got to be the most rose colored post I have read in a while!
 
So if Dupuis - Crosby = Average player 2nd or 3rd liner.....then WTF does that make Franzen - Datsyuk & Zetterberg? Holey crap! Dastyuk and Zetterberg created playoff Franzen! If he didn't have those two he may not even be on this team, let alone a 3rd liner....
 
You say we are blinded by stats, but you are blinded by the Winged Wheel.  Besides, isn't this argument about how good Franzen's STATS are for his cap hit?!?!  I may be wrong, but I though that is the argument, his stats are great for his low cap hit....which his stats aren't that great anyhow...but whatever makes you sleep at night.  Am I blind or is Franzen not playing in the playoffs right now? If he was so great he would have put at least one goal in games 6 or 7 on the PP or something to eliminate the Hawks...
 
Give me Dupuis on Datsyuk's line 100 times over Franzen...


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#147 saven

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:32 AM

Pascal dupuis the same one who has had 3 seasons of 20+ goals in his career and never led his team in goals ? That pascal dupuis ? Because I said a guy who could replace mules scoring not a guy who's had two good years playing on a stacked team. If you wanna cherry pick yrs you can make a lot of bad players look good.
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#148 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:51 AM

Pascal dupuis the same one who has had 3 seasons of 20+ goals in his career and never led his team in goals ? That pascal dupuis ? Because I said a guy who could replace mules scoring not a guy who's had two good years playing on a stacked team. If you wanna cherry pick yrs you can make a lot of bad players look good.

 

....again, without the team Franzen has played on, he is not in the NHL. Without Dats and Z, Franzen is nothing, besides, if I am cherry picking years, then what are you doing? Franzen has had a whole 1 more season than Dupuis with 20+ goals. The year he scored 34 is the year that they had Hossa as well, along with Norris Nick, Brad Stuart & Brian Rafalski....talk about a stacked team...

 

Franzen slappies are funny.... :hysterical:

 

 

edit: Frankly, where has this team gone since 2009 WITH Franzen? When it becomes stale, it doesn't matter how many goals he scores in a 10 game spurt (then disappear for a month) it's time for a change.  Franzen is going to get tossed around in the East. This team needs change to take it to the next level.  If Franzen was any good anymore, Chicago would be watching him play against LA. Up 3 games to 1 and Franzen is a playoff no-show (again) and we lose the series.


Edited by LeftWinger, 05 June 2013 - 07:11 AM.

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#149 The Axe

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:06 AM

Why does everyone talk about the east like it is a war zone? St Louis, Crosby, Briere, Montreal. Each conference has wimps and each one has bruisers.

#150 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:02 AM

Why does everyone talk about the east like it is a war zone? St Louis, Crosby, Briere, Montreal. Each conference has wimps and each one has bruisers.

 

Well, because Franzen plays smaller than any of those guys you mentioned...


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#151 chrisdetroit

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

14 goals in 41 games this year which equates to 28 goals for a season.  Only Pavel had more goals and he played more games.

 

I get that he "floats" sometimes but no way any GM would buy out Franzen. 

 

Try and be logical people.



I'd do it - this team needs an attitude adjustment.  They won't be getting rid of Kronner/Dats/Z for obvious reasons, so the next tier down is what needs to change.  that next tier is Fil/Franzen/Sammy/Bert - basically all veterans who have either out-lived their usefulness due to age/injury or because they don't play with enough grit/passion/determination and they don't consistently bring the same effort every game.

 

Franzen just isn't the same player that he was when he signed that contract.  when the effort is there he still is, but it took 40 games for it to show up in the regular season and then it disappeared again once the playoffs started.  that is entirely unacceptable.

 

Wrong.  He had 28 goals this year (prorated) which is about the same as he has averaged through the last several years.  Facts, people, facts


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#152 wingsfan4795

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:47 AM

 
:blink:
 
This has got to be the most rose colored post I have read in a while!
 
So if Dupuis - Crosby = Average player 2nd or 3rd liner.....then WTF does that make Franzen - Datsyuk & Zetterberg? Holey crap! Dastyuk and Zetterberg created playoff Franzen! If he didn't have those two he may not even be on this team, let alone a 3rd liner....
 
You say we are blinded by stats, but you are blinded by the Winged Wheel.  Besides, isn't this argument about how good Franzen's STATS are for his cap hit?!?!  I may be wrong, but I though that is the argument, his stats are great for his low cap hit....which his stats aren't that great anyhow...but whatever makes you sleep at night.  Am I blind or is Franzen not playing in the playoffs right now? If he was so great he would have put at least one goal in games 6 or 7 on the PP or something to eliminate the Hawks...
 
Give me Dupuis on Datsyuk's line 100 times over Franzen...

When did I mention Franzen? This thread is about him but I was responding only to the dupuis talk. I think you're letting some pent up franzen frustration leak out here if you go off on someone who didn't even mention his name

If you feel so strongly against franzen, why would you want 2 of him?

I don't understand at all what you're trying to say with that last part. Datsyuk didn't score in games 6 or 7. Does that make him a bad player? In fact, we got our scoring from eaves , Anderson, brunner and Zetterberg. Is everyone else bad? Oh man too bad we only have 2 amnesty buyouts, we need to buy everyone out!

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#153 The Axe

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:05 PM

 
Well, because Franzen plays smaller than any of those guys you mentioned...


Yah, but he gets "tossed around" in the west, too. Soft is soft in any conference.

#154 Johnz96

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:07 PM

 

:blink:

 

This has got to be the most rose colored post I have read in a while!

 

So if Dupuis - Crosby = Average player 2nd or 3rd liner.....then WTF does that make Franzen - Datsyuk & Zetterberg? Holey crap! Dastyuk and Zetterberg created playoff Franzen! If he didn't have those two he may not even be on this team, let alone a 3rd liner....

 

You say we are blinded by stats, but you are blinded by the Winged Wheel.  Besides, isn't this argument about how good Franzen's STATS are for his cap hit?!?!  I may be wrong, but I though that is the argument, his stats are great for his low cap hit....which his stats aren't that great anyhow...but whatever makes you sleep at night.  Am I blind or is Franzen not playing in the playoffs right now? If he was so great he would have put at least one goal in games 6 or 7 on the PP or something to eliminate the Hawks...

 

Give me Dupuis on Datsyuk's line 100 times over Franzen...

No one can be expected to score at least a goal every 2 games. Even the best goal scorers. Ovechkin led the league in goals and couldn't score in game 6 or 7 to eliminate the Rangers and he had a lot more opportunity(ice-time, PP, go to guy to set up...) to do so and was facing a weaker team.



#155 The Axe

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:11 PM

No one can be expected to score at least a goal every 2 games. Even the best goal scorers. Ovechkin led the league in goals and couldn't score in game 6 or 7 to eliminate the Rangers and he had a lot more opportunity(ice-time, PP, go to guy to set up...) to do so and was facing a weaker team.


People DO expect you to do SOMEthing though. Franzen doesnt bring anything else to the rink. If he isnt scoring, he's useless. Miller outhits him 2/1 with 1/3 the ice time. Put Miller up with Z or Dats. He at least wants to contribute.

#156 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:19 PM

I agree with all of you, but the debate was/is that Franzen is a great player when it comes to his cap hit.  In all reality though, he is not.  When he scores, he is good, but that is all he does.  He does nothing else to help this team.  So when he goes a month without scoring he is absolutely useless to this team.  I agree that all players from Crosby to McMullinski go through streaks without scoring, but no one, and I mean NO ONE is inconsistent as Franzen, even players who are consistently bad are at least consistent in that regard.

 

The question was do you think Franzen should be bought out.  I put yes, but only because I think Franzen should be off this team any which way they can get rid of him.  It's time to change, I/We have put up with this lazy, inconsistent guy since he signed his "serious contract."  It's just time to get rid of him...


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#157 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:26 PM

When did I mention Franzen? This thread is about him but I was responding only to the dupuis talk. I think you're letting some pent up franzen frustration leak out here if you go off on someone who didn't even mention his name

If you feel so strongly against franzen, why would you want 2 of him?

I don't understand at all what you're trying to say with that last part. Datsyuk didn't score in games 6 or 7. Does that make him a bad player? In fact, we got our scoring from eaves , Anderson, brunner and Zetterberg. Is everyone else bad? Oh man too bad we only have 2 amnesty buyouts, we need to buy everyone out!

 

...and then the question was asked, name someone who can replace Franzen's scoring for under $4M and who is available this summer. I simply put Dupuis.  Then you chimed in (a Franzen debate thread) that Dupuis - blah blah = average player.  So this being a Franzen thread, the comparison was Franzen vs. Dupuis, in which Franzen - Dats and Z = AHL player...Dupuis could come here and score 30 more consistently with Dats and Z than Franzen. he just works harder for it.  BTW, I don't want 1 of him on this team, so I don't know where you got the 2 of him thing... I just figured when you commented on Dupuis you were comparing him to Franzen since this is a Franzen debate, but no offense if you weren't.


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#158 Johnz96

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

People DO expect you to do SOMEthing though. Franzen doesnt bring anything else to the rink. If he isnt scoring, he's useless. Miller outhits him 2/1 with 1/3 the ice time. Put Miller up with Z or Dats. He at least wants to contribute.

Same could be said of Stamkos and Ovechkin and they go plenty of 2 game stretches without goals and they make a lot more $ and have a lot more opportunity (ice-time PP time, less defensive teams...)to score goals.



#159 LeftWinger

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:48 PM

Same could be said of Stamkos and Ovechkin and they go plenty of 2 game stretches without goals and they make a lot more $ and have a lot more opportunity (ice-time PP time, less defensive teams...)to score goals.

 

But Franzen goes 10 games wthout scoring...and 82 games without hitting or fighting for the puck or rebound. If it doesn't go in on the first shot, he is already turning around skating away...


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#160 The Axe

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:51 PM

Same could be said of Stamkos and Ovechkin and they go plenty of 2 game stretches without goals and they make a lot more $ and have a lot more opportunity (ice-time PP time, less defensive teams...)to score goals.


Yup. Good analogy. Franzen is right up there with those guys in the trophy gathering and all star appearances. Oh wait ...





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