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#61 The Axe

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:26 PM

 
Shaw's 5'11 I80 lbs.  Yeah he's got an attitude, but he's hardly a "big body", which around here all too often gets confused with being chippy and playing an aggressive game.  Now, I'm all for the Brandon Prusts, Jordin Tootoos, etc. because they can still play the game and they bring that element of attitude like you're talking about.  But I'm not all for changing around a system that has worked better than any other system for the last two decades.  We draft skill, we play puck possession, and we rely on good overall team defense.  It works.  Not need to go changing into the Boston Bruins just because we haven't won the Cup in a few years. 
 
Also, Chicago ain't all that big either.  Their biggest guys where all on the bench when we played them, and the remainder (outside of Bickell) are the same size, or smaller, than our fowards.  Here's their roster, check it out.  They're by no means a "big bodied" team.  http://espn.go.com/n...cago-blackhawks


Up front, Chicago is way bigger than we are.

#62 kipwinger

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

Up front, Chicago is way bigger than we are.

 

The team that beat us wasn't.  All their biggest guys were on the bench.  Mayers, Bollig, Hayes, were all benched.  Bickell was it, unless you think Handzus (and his rugged bruising style) made the difference.  Everyone else that played against us was smaller.  Hossa is the same size as Cleary.  6'1 210, to Cleary's 6 ft. 208.  Franzen is bigger than anybody in their top six aside from Bickell.  Abdelkader is bigger than most of their guys, including Toews.  Bolland, Kane, Sharp, Shaw, and Frolik are below 200 lbs.  Stalberg is above 200 but was benched against us for most of the series, and was a non factor the rest of the time. 

 

So really, the only big guys they had that were effective were Bickell and Handzus.  So when you say they're big and tough you're really only talking about them, and it's not as though putting those two on a less skilled lineup would make a difference.  Chicago wins via skill, to say otherwise is misleading. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#63 FlashyG

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

Up front, Chicago is way bigger than we are.

 

Chicago's average height and weight at forward - 6'1 201lbs

Detroit's average Height and weight at forward - 6'0 201lbs.

 

I wouldn't say that's way bigger upfront.



#64 kipwinger

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:50 PM

 

Chicago's average height and weight at forward - 6'1 201lbs

Detroit's average Height and weight at forward - 6'0 201lbs.

 

I wouldn't say that's way bigger upfront.

 

With the exception of one or two teams, I am willing to bet that this is pretty much what you'd find with every team in the league.  Boston maybe not, but other than that most of them are probably right around here.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#65 The Axe

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

We were outmatched physically.

#66 FlashyG

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:16 PM

We were outmatched physically.

 

 

I don't think the Hawks outhit the Wings in any game of that series. As far as physical play goes Chicago was the only team less physical than the Wings this season

 

 

With the exception of one or two teams, I am willing to bet that this is pretty much what you'd find with every team in the league.  Boston maybe not, but other than that most of them are probably right around here.

 

Boston would be in the same range and likely slightly smaller than both the WIngs and the Hawks. Most of their size comes from their back-end.



#67 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:12 AM

 

There are two big tough teams left and two skill teams.  One of each is leading their series.  It's not like being big and rugged is some guarantee or something.  Skill wins as often as not. 

True, and I love the Wings style.  I'm more getting at the fact that we need the big bodies to compliment the skilled guys.  Dats like Tuzzi or Abdelkader.  Toews usually has Bickell.  Nyquist and Brunner have Andersson.  He's not a big hitter, but he's a big body with some skill.  We need our own Lucic style guy.


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#68 stillwater

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

 

Chicago's average height and weight at forward - 6'1 201lbs

Detroit's average Height and weight at forward - 6'0 201lbs.

 

I wouldn't say that's way bigger upfront.

 

Please, logic and fact have no place in these discussions.



#69 The Axe

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

 
Please, logic and fact have no place in these discussions.


We were noticeably smaller at forward. I dont care what the paper says. Nyquist, Filppula, Franzen, and Brunner were all man-handled. That needs to change.

#70 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

 

Chicago's average height and weight at forward - 6'1 201lbs

Detroit's average Height and weight at forward - 6'0 201lbs.

 

I wouldn't say that's way bigger upfront.

 

Chicago didn't seem a whole lot bigger but you also have to remember the Wings average height and weight includes Bertuzzi, Franzen, and Kindl.  All who play a lot less physical than their size would suggest. 



#71 The Axe

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:11 PM

 
Chicago didn't seem a whole lot bigger but you also have to remember the Wings average height and weight includes Bertuzzi, Franzen, and Kindl.  All who play a lot less physical than their size would suggest. 


Agreed. Swap Bickell with Franzen, and I think we win.

#72 Shaman

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:54 PM

We were outmatched physically.

No, they got out played by a deeper team, not a bigger team, or more physical team. They scored 5 goals in 3 games they could have eliminated the Hawks. 


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#73 kipwinger

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:44 PM

 

Chicago didn't seem a whole lot bigger but you also have to remember the Wings average height and weight includes Bertuzzi, Franzen, and Kindl.  All who play a lot less physical than their size would suggest. 

 

That's true, but the average height and weight for Chicago included huge guys that never touched the ice against Detroit, including Bollig, Mayers, and Hayes.  Also, they have plenty of pretty big guys who play a finesse game also, such as Hjalmarsson, Stalberg, and Frolik.  Actually, Bickell and Seabrook are the only guys on that team that are both big, and play a rugged big guy game. 

 

For example:  While being big, Hossa only had 12 hits this season which was good for 19th on the team.  By comparison Franzen had 43 which was good for eighth on the team, and Kindl had 46.  Three different guys, all big, with varying levels of physicality.  If one can count Franzen and Kindl's "not playing big" against the average height and weight, then you'd have to do the same for Hossa, Frolik, Stalberg, and Hjalmarsson, all of whom had fewer hits than Franzen (except Stalberg who had the same amount).  Also, Franzen and Kindl both had more blocked shots than any of the guys I mentioned as well.  So I'm not really sure how they're any less physical than Chicago's big bodies are. 


Edited by kipwinger, 08 June 2013 - 07:55 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#74 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

*DISCLAIMER*

 

This capgeek mockup is purely fantasy and made to go along with the "What Would You Give Up For Malkin" thread. I will do my best to make things a realistic as possible.  I am not going to make everyone happy with this post, nor do I intend to.  Some of you may fall out of your chairs laughing, but as long as you keep in mind that I am acknowledging that I know that this will NEVER happen, it is just a mock up for entertainment purposes and to intrigue debate and creative chatting back and forth. That being said, here I go.  First I will start with the subtractions from the Red Wings via UFA, buyouts, trade, waivers...

 

Val Filppula - Walk via UFA

Dan Cleary - Walk via UFA

Drew Miller - Walk via UFA

Todd Bertuzzi - Compliance Buyout

Mikel Samuelsson - Complinace Buyout

Jonas Gustavsson - Waived to GR ($525,000 Caphit, unless someone claims him)

Kyle Quincey - Traded to Pit in Malkin deal

Tomas Tatar - Traded to Pit in Malkin deal

2014 1st round pick - Trade to Pit in Malkin Deal

Petr Mrazek - Traded to Pit in Malkin Deal

Corey Emmerton - Traded for low draft pick or Future Considerations

 

Acquired:

 

Malkin - For Quincey, Mrazek, Tatar, 2014 1st round pick

Vokoun - For Quincey, Mrazek, Tatar, 2014 1st round pick

Ryder - Via UFA

 

Re-signed:

 

Joakim Andersson

Jakub Kindl

Damien Brunner

Brenden Smith

Gustav Nyquist

 

Pavel Datsyuk - 4 years ($7.5M Cap hit)

Evgeni Malkin - 8 years ($10M cap hit)(not sure what the ceiling is for what a player can make against the Cap)

 

 

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Michael Ryder ($4.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.110m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.110m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.250m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Brendan Smith ($1.110m)

Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
Buyout: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m)
Claimed off Waivers: Jonas Gustavsson ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,059,545; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,250,455

 

Now this shows a 22 man roster, if Emmerton ($533,333) needed to be retained, that would work to considering the $1.25M available cap space.  Also, for the 2014-2015 season reflecting Malkin and Datsyuk new cap hit, some things will have to be done to create more space, hopefully the Cap would go up a bit too because we are adding $2.1M in salary with those two.  We would be losing Cola's salary ($2.5M) but you also have to re-sign Vokoun & Dekeyser and bring up another defender to be the #6/7 guy.  You could also replace Eaves $1.2M by not re-signing him and using one of the "kids" in GR as the 13th guy and most of those guys are sub $1M... I am confident that it would all work out.  I sure wish Holland had the guts to do something this radical, but damn that would be a lot of moves...and a miracle!


Edited by LeftWinger, 09 June 2013 - 11:55 AM.

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#75 dobbles

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:44 PM

 

I don't think you've been watching the Calder Cup playoffs, else you would know that Mrazek is absolutely not ready for the NHL.

 

thats just not true. he has 4 playoff shutouts to lead the league. he has been the reason they won many of their games. he is 5th in save percentage and goals against. (and 3 of the 4 guys ahead of him have less than 5 games played. awfully small sample size) and yes i do watch the games including getting to see game 4 in the okc series in person. 

 

mrazek shouldnt be in the nhl next year because it would do him no good to hold the clipboard most games. but he has shown every indication in the ahl that he can be a good nhl goalie. 


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#76 The Axe

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:49 PM

I like everything except the Malkin deal. I dont think Pitts would do it. Are you willing to let go of DeKeyser and Nyquist instead of Quincey and Tatar?

#77 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

I like everything except the Malkin deal. I dont think Pitts would do it. Are you willing to let go of DeKeyser and Nyquist instead of Quincey and Tatar?

 

I would replace Tatar with Nyquist if had to be, but not Dekeyser.  I would most definitely replace Q with Ericsson.  I chose those two because of the obvious Cap relief on our end.  Signing then trading Nyquist would be more cap relief (which we would need the following year) than trading Tatar.  While we would miss Nyquist initially, our prospect pool is very deep with Frk, Jarnkrok, Athanasiou, Jurco and whoever we take with the 18th pick this year.  I would even part with some other prospects like Sheahan or Ferraro or Pulkkinen...as long as the 8 year deal was done for Malkin.  I would not do a trade for him if it meant having to deal with UFA next July....I would rather stay status quo and try to sign him then....


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#78 Shaman

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:20 PM

I like everything except the Malkin deal. I dont think Pitts would do it. Are you willing to let go of DeKeyser and Nyquist instead of Quincey and Tatar?

Pittsburgh is pretty much set on defense anyway, they have a strong prospect pool of D-men. They would ask for Nyquist, Tatar++++


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
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In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
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#79 RedWingCraig

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

 

thats just not true. he has 4 playoff shutouts to lead the league. he has been the reason they won many of their games. he is 5th in save percentage and goals against. (and 3 of the 4 guys ahead of him have less than 5 games played. awfully small sample size) and yes i do watch the games including getting to see game 4 in the okc series in person. 

 

mrazek shouldnt be in the nhl next year because it would do him no good to hold the clipboard most games. but he has shown every indication in the ahl that he can be a good nhl goalie. 

Would be even better for him to start the majority of the games in Grand Rapids and be the back up in 14-15



#80 The Axe

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

Pittsburgh is pretty much set on defense anyway, they have a strong prospect pool of D-men. They would ask for Nyquist, Tatar++++


Boston just torched them. Are you sure?





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