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#81 Shaman

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

Boston just torched them. Are you sure?

Look at their system, they have been loading up on defensive prospects.


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#82 The Axe

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:42 PM

Look at their system, they have been loading up on defensive prospects.


Ok. But they need them now. Our defensemen are NHL ready.

#83 Shaman

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:20 PM

Ok. But they need them now. Our defensemen are NHL ready.

So, they won't give up Malkin for anything less than an established #2 D-man++. Giving them 3rd/2nd pairing kids with some ceiling doesn't a good trade make.


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#84 Dabura

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:24 PM

 

Shaw's 5'11 I80 lbs.  Yeah he's got an attitude but he's hardly a "big body", which around here all too often gets confused with being chippy and playing an aggressive game.  Now, I'm all for the Brandon Prusts, Jordin Tootoos, etc. because they can still play the game and they bring that element of attitude like you're talking about.  But I'm not all for changing around a system that has worked better than any other system for the last two decades.  We draft skill, we play puck possession, and we rely on good overall team defense.  It works.  Not need to go changing into the Boston Bruins just because we haven't won the Cup in a few years.  I've always hated the "big for big's sake" argument because it willfully ignores the fact that we're a skilled team that wins more often than everybody else, and it's not like there's ANY correlation between the size of your team and how much success you have (Anaheim).

 

Also, Chicago ain't all that big either.  Their biggest guys where all on the bench when we played them, and the remainder (outside of Bickell) are the same size, or smaller, than our fowards.  Here's their roster, check it out.  They're by no means a "big bodied" team.  http://espn.go.com/n...cago-blackhawks

 

I don't think anyone's suggesting we change up our system and try to be the Bruins. We just need some size, strength, and nastiness (provided - yes - that it's not a liability, and that, ultimately, it results in more goals for and perhaps less wear-and-tear against.) I'm not saying that because OMG THE EAST IS HUGE AND WE'RE GONNA GET CREAMED. That angle is overblown, IMHO (unless we're talking about the Bruins. They really are that big and mean.) And I'm not saying it because OMG THIS WINGS TEAM IS SO SOFT IT BLOWS MY EFFING MIND. I really liked loved how we carried the physical play at times against the Ducks and 'hawks. And even when we weren't necessarily dominating in that area, we showed we can handle it. (Maybe.)

 

But still, we do need to get a litter bigger. And meaner. I think Abdelkader's emergence as a capable power-forward is a step in the right direction.

 

Actually, y'know, I mentioned how much I'd lurve to see Dustin Brown or Ryan Callahan sporting the Winged Wheel - and neither of those guys is big (6' and 5'11, respectively). So maybe it's not necessarily about size, or size for the sake of size. I guess, for me, it's wanting a shot in our roster's collective arm. Someone who's extremely difficult to play against, and not because he's got an endless bag of stickhandling tricks. A wrecking ball who can score and play a solid two-way game. That'd be cool.


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#85 Hiei

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:53 PM

Here's what i'm looking at:

 

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) 
Gustav Nyquist ($1.500m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.000m) 
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) 
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) 
Darren Helm ($2.125m) 
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) 
Jakub Kindl ($1.750m) / Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) 
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m) 
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / 
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) 
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) 
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m) 
Buyout: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m) 
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $55,827,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,482,121


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#86 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:56 PM

Here's what i'm looking at:

 

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) 
Gustav Nyquist ($1.500m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.000m) 
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) 
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) 
Darren Helm ($2.125m) 
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) 
Jakub Kindl ($1.750m) / Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) 
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m) 
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / 
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) 
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) 
OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m) 
Buyout: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m) 
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $55,827,879; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,482,121

 

Sheesh, that way too many changes! :D

 

Honestly though, do you think Kenny will stay with the same roster (mins Fil) and sit on $9M?  Gosh, I hope not....in our new Division, we'd get blasted...If he was not going to make any changes and keep $9M, he may as well give Fil his $5M...


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#87 DeGraa55

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:34 AM

Sheesh, that way too many changes! :D
 
Honestly though, do you think Kenny will stay with the same roster (mins Fil) and sit on $9M?  Gosh, I hope not....in our new Division, we'd get blasted...If he was not going to make any changes and keep $9M, he may as well give Fil his $5M...



Unfortunately though...do you honestly see Kenny making several changes? I bet same roster with four players either gone or acquired.

Edited by DeGraa55, 11 June 2013 - 02:35 AM.


#88 poel

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

 

- Worst Red Wing in the playoffs? Were you even watching..he played top 2 minutes against Anaheim and Chicago's top line and was very good..often having to cover for some of Kronner's brain farts

 

- I will bet my house, cars, and whatever meager amount of money I have in my couch cushions that Jensen and Marchenko are not anywhere near Hockeytown next year ..well maybe in rookie camp. As for Lashoff, it was a good season for him but in the playoffs it was clear he was out of his element a bit and needs to get quicker and read the play better which i'm sure he will work on.

 

- My problem with Bert on the 1st line is that he's slow, injury prone..he just can't keep up ..he's played well with Dats in the past but he has another injury under his belt and clearly wasn't right in the playoffs so who knows if he's going to even play.  He's a 2/3rd liner and a 2nd PP unit guy..or he's going to retire or get bought out. Love Bert but thats the truth with him.

 

- Here is where I'm convinced you don't really watch.  Andersson useless? They called him up during all the injuries for spot duty and could never send him back down because he played so well.  Always has his body in the right position, makes minimal mistakes, kills penalties, good chem with Brunner and Gus, works hard.  He lacks some speed but makes up for it in smarts, could use some polish with the puck but he was never thought of a guy who was going to score a ton of points.  30-40 points would be a bonus with all the other things he brings..he wont be playing in GR next  year I can guarantee that.

 

- Ericsson was very far away from being good. Kronner played solid but he wasn't able to support the offense as usual because he had to work in the own zone following Ericsson's terrible giveaways. This guy is just not able to handle the puck cleanly. Everytime he got the puck he runs into the next opponent or immediately plays a panic pass.

 

- Maybe you're right and Marchenko and Jensen are not NHL-ready. But Babcock will definitely check that. He searches one or two right handed defensemen for his PP-units. If Marchenko and Jensen are not ready there's enough capspace in my suggestion to add two younger talented quality defenders. Maybe the two Swiss from Montreal could be options. Diaz played a bad saison, also but not only because of injuries. I think the Canadiens will not longer count on him. Same with Weber. He will not get a chance altough he always played very good. The Canadiens would not require a lot for them. And I'm sure there are a lot of other options.

Lashoff got a one way contract and he sure will be an important player for Detroit next year. He always led the team in checking and blocking shots when he played. We will need big rough guys like him next season. And Lash is not even big, he's also a smart puck handler and he has a very hard slap shot. He didn't play very good in his two playoff matches, I agree. But I think his self confidence wasn't very good after he got reassigned to the griffins. It's not easy to come in after get reassigned in the NHL and then sit for a long time. And he was even better than Quincey, Ericsson or Smith.

 

- You're right. Bert is slow and his back sucks. But Pasha don't need good skaters in his line. He needs rough guys who win the board battles for him and he needs snipers to make use of his ideas. And I think Bert looked very good in the playoffs. He handled the puck very smart. As always. If he's injured, lets check Jurco there. His style is very similar. He's not the best skater but he plays a rough style and has very quick hands and is an excellent puck handler. And if it don't work, we got the Mule. And he already worked very well with Pav. Lot of options, but I prefer to see Pav with Tatar and Bert. They're the best snipers we got along with Brunner.

 

- I don't like Andersson. He played not bad last season but he's not as skilled as Emmerton and he don't work harder than him, too. Even Emmerton don't got the body of Andersson. Andersson is better in Faceoffs but that will not change my mind. Andersson maybe could be a 4th line Center but I prefer Emmerton to play there. He's very familiar with Miller and Eaves and I think they made a good job in the past. For the 3rd line we got better options than Andersson. I'd prefer to see the Mule or Helm centering the 3rd.


Edited by poel, 11 June 2013 - 08:51 PM.


#89 DeGraa55

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

- Ericsson was very far away from being good. Kronner played solid but he wasn't able to support the offense as usual because he had to work in the own zone following Ericsson's terrible giveaways. This guy is just not able to handle the puck cleanly. Everytime he got the puck he runs into the next opponent or immediately plays a panic pass.
 
- Maybe you're right and Marchenko and Jensen are not NHL-ready. But Babcock will definitely check that. He searches one or two right handed defensemen for his PP-units. If Marchenko and Jensen are not ready there's enough capspace in my suggestion to add two younger talented quality defenders. Maybe the two Swiss from Montreal could be options. Diaz played a bad saison, also but not only because of injuries. I think the Canadiens will not longer count on him. Same with Weber. He will not get a chance altough he always played very good. The Canadiens would not require a lot for them. And I'm sure there are a lot of other options.
Lashoff got a one way contract and he sure will be an important player for Detroit next year. He always led the team in checking and blocking shots when he played. We will need big rough guys like him next season. And Lash is not even big, he's also a smart puck handler and he has a very hard slap shot. He didn't play very good in his two playoff matches, I agree. But I think his self confidence wasn't very good after he got reassigned to the griffins. It's not easy to come in after get reassigned in the NHL and then sit for a long time. And he was even better than Quincey, Ericsson or Smith.
 
- You're right. Bert is slow and his back sucks. But Pasha don't need good skaters in his line. He needs rough guys who win the board battles for him and he needs snipers to make use of his ideas. And I think he looked very good in the playoffs. He handled the puck very smart. As always. If he's injured, lets check Jurco there. He's style is very similar. He's not the best skater but he plays a rough style and has very quick hands and is an excellent puck handler. And if it don't work, we got the Mule. And he already worked very well with Pav. Lot of options, but I prefer to see Pav with Tatar and Bert. They're the best snipers we got along with Brunner.
 
- I don't like Andersson. He played not bad last season but he's not as skilled as Emmerton and he don't work harder than him, too. Even Emmerton don't got the body of Andersson. Andersson is better in Faceoffs but that will not change my mind. Andersson maybe could be a 4th line Center but I prefer Emmerton to play there. He's very familiar with Miller and Eaves and I think they made a good job in the past. For the 3rd line we got better options than Andersson. I'd prefer to see the Mule or Helm centering the 3rd.



I think I saw erricson covering more for kronwall but OK.

#90 Crymson

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:56 PM

 

- Ericsson was very far away from being good. Kronner played solid but he wasn't able to support the offense as usual because he had to work in the own zone following Ericsson's terrible giveaways. This guy is just not able to handle the puck cleanly. Everytime he got the puck he runs into the next opponent or immediately plays a panic pass.

 

Err... well, every hockey analyst disagrees with you, especially those who were saying that Ericsson and Kronwall should be one of Sweden's pairings at the Olympics. I only saw Ericsson make a few mistakes in the playoffs; all of them came in the initial games against Anaheim, and none of them resulted in a penalty or a goal against.



#91 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:26 PM

I thought Ericsson played the best defense out of everyone in the regular season and Kronwall played the best defense in the playoffs with Big E not far behind. I'm very happy with that pairing.

 

In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone complain about Ericsson all season long until now in this thread.



#92 Hiei

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

 

Sheesh, that way too many changes! :D

 

Honestly though, do you think Kenny will stay with the same roster (mins Fil) and sit on $9M?  Gosh, I hope not....in our new Division, we'd get blasted...If he was not going to make any changes and keep $9M, he may as well give Fil his $5M...

 

I was leaning toward the REALIST side of things....

...Now if I wanted to say, blow my load, you can add on David Clarkson for about 4.5 million/yr x4 years.  Or if holland caught the PIT GM on a day where he was smoking crack (Like the day we got Hasek from Buffalo), Malkin, 8.7/year and probably 9.5+ after that.


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#93 Dabura

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:48 AM

Y'know, I was thinking. Yeah, there are no Ryan Suters or Zach Parises. But - Bickell, Stalberg, Clarkson, et al. ... that's nothing to sneeze at. IMHO, any one (or - dare to dream - perhaps two) of the aforementioned big guys might make us considerably more dangerous, difficult to play against. And there definitely are some other possibilities beyond those three.


Edited by Dabura, 12 June 2013 - 11:42 AM.

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#94 DeGraa55

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:46 PM

Y'know, I was thinking. Yeah, there are no Ryan Suters or Zach Parises. But - Bickell, Stalberg, Clarkson, et al. ... that's nothing to sneeze at. IMHO, any one (or - dare to dream - perhaps two) of the aforementioned big guys might make us considerably more dangerous, difficult to play against. And there definitely are some other possibilities beyond those three.



Ya I agree. Too many people only care about big names or guys that score a lot. But we really don't need a big name we need guys that contribute in several ways like scoring and a physical precense.

#95 wingsfan4795

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:05 AM

Ya I agree. Too many people only care about big names or guys that score a lot. But we really don't need a big name we need guys that contribute in several ways like scoring and a physical precense.

Like stalberg

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#96 Crymson

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:30 AM

Like stalberg

 

Stalberg has scored over 20 goals only once, and he averages less than one hit per game. So no, not like Stalberg. He is currently a 2nd- or 3rd-line forward.



#97 wingsfan4795

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:48 AM

 
Stalberg has scored over 20 goals only once, and he averages less than one hit per game. So no, not like Stalberg. He is currently a 2nd- or 3rd-line forward.

Read the post I quoted.
Either way it doesn't matter because we probably won't get any of these guys. Not because Holland will strike out, there just isn't any room in the lineup

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#98 Dabura

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:13 AM

 

Stalberg has scored over 20 goals only once, and he averages less than one hit per game. So no, not like Stalberg. He is currently a 2nd- or 3rd-line forward.

 

And Dan Cleary was washed up when he joined the Wings.


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#99 Dabura

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:27 AM

Ericsson was about as good as he could possibly be at this point in time, so I don't know that there's much room for complaining. If we are gonna complain about him, we should be bemoaning the fact that, really, we're sort of faking it with our top-pairing. I wouldn't be surprised if DeKeyser got his groove back and played himself onto that first-pairing alongside Kronwall, with Ericsson settling down alongside...Smith?

 

I was disappointed with Lashoff's last couple or several games. He was sort of exposed, wasn't he? I do like his size, though.

 

I'm a wee bit worried by Babcock's comment about DeKeyser's current performance level (in the Calder Cup finals). I don't have the exact quote, and my memory's not photographic or anything, and I'm lazy, so, the gist was: "This is not the DeKeyser I remember, before he broke this thumb. [Implied: But that's ok. It's to be expected. He'll get better.]"


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#100 Dabura

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:44 AM

With the forwards (and the D, I guess), it has to be about improvement. I don't mean "We have to improve," because that's a truism (though I suppose what I'm about to say would also fall into that category). What I mean is, basically, we had the right idea on the whole, with a few soft spots. If we can improve on those spots while keeping everything else the same, that'd be good.

 

Like, oh, I dunno, Filppula.

 

It looks like, barring an act of Satan, we'll be cutting Flip loose. Flip did a whole lot of just-a-little-more-than-nothing for us, and we still almost beat the 'hawks in the second round in five games. Now, what if we add, say, David Clarkson? Boner. That's the kind of mericlessly probing, calculating, objective perspective Holland & Co. need to adopt this summer re: improving this for-once,-overachieving-Red Wings team.

 

Hmmm...I haven't been to CapGeek in awhile. Maybe I'll reKindl (see what I did there?) that addiction and create a custom roster.


Edited by Dabura, 13 June 2013 - 06:05 AM.

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