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Holmstrom96

Visors Required - New NHL Players in '13-'14

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Consideration of any other angle beyond this is irrelevant. Edit....the biggest thing for me, which you haven't mentioned, is the risk of losing the player and the time and money invested in said player. Your argument related to cost and insurance, etc. is good, but for me, I'd be more concerned about losing franchise player that I thought I'd have for another 10-15 years.

Yes, yes, your very clever. :clap:

To be clear, there are two separate angles that this needs to be considered. First, the health insurance aspect and the fact that the team is on the line to foot the bill if the player get's hurt. From this angle, I understand the owners wanting the rule and can offer no argument.

Edited by toby91_ca
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Yes, yes, your very clever. :clap:

To be clear, there are two separate angles that this needs to be considered. First, the health insurance aspect and the fact that the team is on the line to foot the bill if the player get's hurt. From this angle, I understand the owners wanting the rule and can offer no argument. The second aspect, and the one you seem to be addressing, is whether or not the players, independent of insurance cost consideration, should have a choice to wear a visor, or in your case... a helmet. From that angle, and to answer your question, I think players should be able to choose if they want to wear a helmet or visor.

Clearly the players disagree with you, as it was the PLAYERS that have voted in favor of grandfathering it in. I have no clue why people think just because you *can* do something (like playing without a visor, without a helmet, etc) you *should* do it. The world changes and evolves... and everyone should be evolving along with it! Player safety is an issue that isn't going to go away, and with the expansion of medical knowledge comes the understanding that head and face injuries can have long-lasting effects on the brain. Why do you want 18 year old finesse kids coming into the league and getting their brains scrambled when the majority of big, strong, manly NHL players don't? Tough guys (which I'm all for, btw) can still drop their gloves and TAKE THEIR HELMETS OFF to fight - they still have that choice, though you rarely see them do it anymore.

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The visors seemed like an inevitability.

I'm more interested that they're taking a look at goaltending equipment again and have a new net that takes up less space behind and at the sides.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9342716/nhl-competition-committee-recommend-mandatory-visors-new-players

Hopefully the competition committee deciding to look at all equipment means the hard shell pads. And not that they're weaseling out of further restricting goalie's equipment.

I think the safety issues are being put first is all.

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To those against this....do you think players should be allowed to choose whether they wear a helmet as well?

And why stop at helmets. All those pads are heavy and restrict players ability to move. Away with all that. Just skates, shorts and a stick.

Edited by Pskov Wings Fan

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For me it comes down to this: Just how much does a man value his most prized and irreplaceable function? How about his second most? How about third most?

Was there this much fight when they mandated helmets and nut cups? I remember that there was when they argued the former, but I don't recall any fury over the latter.

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For me it comes down to this: Just how much does a man value his most prized and irreplaceable function? How about his second most? How about third most?

Was there this much fight when they mandated helmets and nut cups? I remember that there was when they argued the former, but I don't recall any fury over the latter.

That's the thing, if a guy doesn't care about possibly losing his sight, I think it should be his choice whether to wear one or not. I don't hate visors. There's no reason to. I just think the players should make the choice for themselves.

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That's the thing, if a guy doesn't care about possibly losing his sight, I think it should be his choice whether to wear one or not. I don't hate visors. There's no reason to. I just think the players should make the choice for themselves.

I have no problem with that line of thought, if the consequencies only impact the person making that decision. But that is clearly not the case here.

If you thik about it, why is there are there speed limits? It's not really to protect the individual driver, it's to protect all the other innocent people in proximity of that driver. If you left it up to that driver to decide how fast he drove, the risk he would take on in driving way too fast is impacting a lot more individuals than just himself.

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Was there this much fight when they mandated helmets and nut cups? I remember that there was when they argued the former, but I don't recall any fury over the latter.

*queue my one allotted sexist comment for the day*

Are any of us surprised that most men value their balls over their brains?!

*thus ends my rampant sexism for the day. I apologize.*

Back on topic, I totally agree with the concept that an individual should be able to make their own dumbass decisions about how they want to impact their health (smoking, triple double baconator of death, willingness to take pucks to the dome)--given that that decision does not adversely affect others. These players are not only investments money-wise on someone else's insurance dime, but as others have pointed out they are an investment that a team makes to reasonably assume that a particular role is filled, frequently long term, on their team. Their coaches rely on them being there. Their teammates rely on them being there. And I, as a fan, rely on them being there and doing everything they can to ensure that my team stays competitive. If a player wants to have unprotected sex with a Thai hooker whilst drinking moonshine and inserting cockroaches into his ass, fine. Just don't flipping do it while you're signed to play for my team.

So...uh...I guess I feel the same way about the visor issue. Signed to play for my team? Then wear a damn visor, wear a damn helmet, and no damn Thai hookers. *Mic drop*

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I still think it should be the persons choice.

But for insurance reasons and what not that's not the case.

Oh it's the player's choice. No one is forcing them to play. If they have a strong dislike of visors (despite having had to wear them in Jr/College/EuroLeagues they're welcome to step aside and try a new career. No one is forcing anybody to do anything. If I want to walk onto a construction site to review a piece of work I have to wear a helmet; the option of actually entering the construction site (and thus put on the helmet) is 100% voluntary.

None of this should be a problem. These guys are all making at more than half a million dollars a year. Given all that money I think it's fair to expect them to follow some minimum safety standards designed to protect them and the investment they represent to the people paying their salaries.

*queue my one allotted sexist comment for the day*

Are any of us surprised that most men value their balls over their brains?!

*thus ends my rampant sexism for the day. I apologize.*

Back on topic, I totally agree with the concept that an individual should be able to make their own dumbass decisions about how they want to impact their health (smoking, triple double baconator of death, willingness to take pucks to the dome)--given that that decision does not adversely affect others. These players are not only investments money-wise on someone else's insurance dime, but as others have pointed out they are an investment that a team makes to reasonably assume that a particular role is filled, frequently long term, on their team. Their coaches rely on them being there. Their teammates rely on them being there. And I, as a fan, rely on them being there and doing everything they can to ensure that my team stays competitive. If a player wants to have unprotected sex with a Thai hooker whilst drinking moonshine and inserting cockroaches into his ass, fine. Just don't flipping do it while you're signed to play for my team.

So...uh...I guess I feel the same way about the visor issue. Signed to play for my team? Then wear a damn visor, wear a damn helmet, and no damn Thai hookers. *Mic drop*

Female players wear genital protection as well (a "Jill" rather than "Jock"). That area of the body is vulnerable to damage from a slapshot for any gender.

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Visors for every player? What's Next, opposing teams' benches on the same side of the ice?

-Don Cherry

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Just mandate the full cages already.

That'll never happen. Full cages impact a player's ability to see the puck at their feet. A high quality visor shouldn't negatively impact your vision.

If anything, we may one day see a full mask that is clear. "Glass-like" ceramics already exist (for example Aluminum Oxynitride), so once the machining methods, costs and designs are sufficiently advanced to allow for a better solution we might see that type of mask. The main problem aside from strength and cost is probably related to the fine optical properties of the material (players want to be able to see just like they do without the mask in front of their face) and likely condensation build-up on the inside of the mask.

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Clearly the majority of the players players disagree with you, as it was the PLAYERS that have voted in favor of grandfathering it in. I have no clue why people think just because you *can* do something (like playing without a visor, without a helmet, etc) you *should* do it. The world changes and evolves... and everyone should be evolving along with it! Player safety is an issue that isn't going to go away, and with the expansion of medical knowledge comes the understanding that head and face injuries can have long-lasting effects on the brain. Why do you want 18 year old finesse kids coming into the league and getting their brains scrambled when the majority of big, strong, manly NHL players don't? Tough guys (which I'm all for, btw) can still drop their gloves and TAKE THEIR HELMETS OFF to fight - they still have that choice, though you rarely see them do it anymore.

There, I fixed it for you (see bolded text). It was not a unanimous decision. Also, I didn't make any argument based on the rules popularity amongst the players, nor did I make an argument based on the whether it was smart or not to wear a helmet or visor... these are arguments you invented in your head and erroneously applied to what I said.

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That'll never happen. Full cages impact a player's ability to see the puck at their feet. A high quality visor shouldn't negatively impact your vision.

If anything, we may one day see a full mask that is clear. "Glass-like" ceramics already exist (for example Aluminum Oxynitride), so once the machining methods, costs and designs are sufficiently advanced to allow for a better solution we might see that type of mask. The main problem aside from strength and cost is probably related to the fine optical properties of the material (players want to be able to see just like they do without the mask in front of their face) and likely condensation build-up on the inside of the mask.

Drawing in sufficient oxygen with a full glass cage on may also present a problem.

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As opposed to this, in order to reduce facial injuries they could go back to wooden sticks and further limit/enforce the curves on blades in order to reduce the general velocity of the puck.
Agree, bring back wooden sticks.
For me it comes down to this: Just how much does a man value his most prized and irreplaceable function? How about his second most? How about third most? Was there this much fight when they mandated helmets and nut cups? I remember that there was when they argued the former, but I don't recall any fury over the latter.That's the thing, if a guy doesn't care about possibly losing his sight, I think it should be his choice whether to wear one or not. I don't hate visors. There's no reason to. I just think the players should make the choice for themselves.
What part of working for a team owner as part of a multi million dollar CONTRACT don't you understand? You waive many of your rights and become property upon signing the contact. Your thinking only applies to UFAs.

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I like the wooden sticks idea for sure! I think the visor mandatory is ridiculous. Even though most players where them coming out already, it still shouldn't be mandatory....and what about Kronwall? He wears one, but it obviously protects the top of his helmet more than his face...will they make him wear it correctly or let players circumvent the rule by wearing it like KRonner?

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That'll never happen. Full cages impact a player's ability to see the puck at their feet. A high quality visor shouldn't negatively impact your vision.

If anything, we may one day see a full mask that is clear. "Glass-like" ceramics already exist (for example Aluminum Oxynitride), so once the machining methods, costs and designs are sufficiently advanced to allow for a better solution we might see that type of mask. The main problem aside from strength and cost is probably related to the fine optical properties of the material (players want to be able to see just like they do without the mask in front of their face) and likely condensation build-up on the inside of the mask.

Regarding any kind of full face mask... I wouldn't approve. I like being able to clearly see players faces, their emotions, battle scars, and missing teeth. Even a clear mask would make it significantly less personal.

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If anyone thinks that visor's do not inhibit a players play, just look at Fedorov and Lidstrom. When Lids first came to the league he wore a visor. I am not saying he was average then, but when he decided to remove it, he became super human, then later on in his career he put it back on and became human again.... Fedorov was the best player in the league when he was sans visor, then one day he broke his nose and played the rest of his career in a visor and his game suffered. He was still a great player, but not as dominant as he once was. Even when he was still young in Anaheim... It is what it is, but I believe whole heartedly that a visor seriously effects a players ability...Yzerman is another example.

The only saving grace is that players wont be forced to wear them that already don't. The kids coming in should be used to the visor and it shouldn't change their game.

Edited by LeftWinger

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The only saving grace is that players wont be forced to wear them that already don't. The kids coming in should be used to the visor and it shouldn't change their game.

This is the big thing. If they're used to them, it won't change anything for them. If they have to suddenly start wearing them, it will.

If you've always (or at least for many, many years) worn glasses, you don't even think about it, but if you get a pair after never wearing them, you have to re-learn how to see. I'm at the reading-glasses age, and it's a royal pain.

My supervisor has worn glasses since he was a kid, and I've never seen him with fogged-up glasses no matter how hot and humid it gets, but you can put a pair on me in the dead of winter, and I'm apparently exhaling out of my tear ducts.

Visors aren't a bad thing- far from it. Having to change your game in the later stages of your career is a pain, and they've avoided it by allowing grandfathering. It's a good call.

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Not a fan of this really. I never liked wearing a visor while playing when I was young. Makes fighting fairly a lot more difficult. Turns guys like Clutterbuck into tough guys real quick....

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No Hit League

NCL N o C hoice L eague

grown up men being told what to wear lmao this league is becoming m,ore and more of a big fat joke.

I don't really mean much offense by this, but you are exhibiting a clear lack of understanding of all the factors at play here.

Firstly, this doesn't happen if the Players Association didn't agree to it...they did.

Secondly, if the players were to play for free and waive 100% liability of anyone involved (rink, team, league, etc.), then sure, no one would care, let the guy do what he wants. HOWEVER, that is not the case. The players are being paid very significant amounts of money, teams want to protect their investments and rightfully so. Someone might say they shouldn't care, they have insurance, but that just saves them a bit of money in the future should something happen....it doesn't give them the player back. Also, if everyone was wearing visors, I'm sure their insurance premiums would decrease.

I'm sorry, but the extreme short-sighted views that grown men should be able to decide (it's their life) annoys me to no end.

No worries, everyone is entiteled to his opinion and if that's you opinion I am more than fine with it, I just happen to disagree with you.

The insurance thing is just a big bluff, they use the safety issue as a reason to charge these premium fee but in the end, insurances surely know that they are getting more out of this even if they have to pay sometimes...

Hockeyplayers are tough as nails and will come back till its no longer possible, telling them what to wear is just wrong in my opinion but it fits with a lot of bad decisions this league has made over the past years.

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Not a fan of this really. I never liked wearing a visor while playing when I was young. Makes fighting fairly a lot more difficult. Turns guys like Clutterbuck into tough guys real quick....

I was going to write that fighting issue is easy to fix, just penalize the guy who fights having a visor on. But then I though how many times you see a guy being taken down during the fight. So taking helmets off before the fight is not really the safest thing to do. Better hit your knuckles against the visor than your head against the ice.

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