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#441 frankgrimes

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:17 AM

I think people are upset, because this could have been done way before. During the last seasons most fans complained about the lack of a pure goalscorer, well here is 27 year old pure goalscorer playing his first season in the NHL and even a shortened one. For sure there is room to growth and he will make mistakes, because basically he is just an older rookie so no surprises here. Is he worth 3,5 m ? Probably not, will he be worth it soon? maybe if the Wings are offering 2,5 I wouldn't sign for that either if I were hi. Give him 3 x 3 or 7 over 2 years if he pans out, fine if not move on. At the end of the day, the Wings are paying Sammy exactly that and Brunner IS better, worth more than Sammy at this point in his career, also a 40 old Alfredsson at 5 million? I understand why Brunners camp is pushing for a better deal. Time to face reality here, the Wings aren't the powerhouse they once were so paying heavily under market value will not get the job done. Tatar, Nyquist, Brunner would really be a good round up for a top 9 bottom 3 type of style.

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#442 Wingsfan72

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:26 AM

Uhh...have you seen the regular season and playoffs? He the definition of a natural goal scorer. The puck always found him. He's one dimensional in that he basically has zero defensive game but his purpose on this team would be to shoot and score goals. I think the term "floater" gets thrown around too often in these forums.

I'm not saying I think he's more valuable than Tatar or nyquist, it goes without saying that he is not, but how many successful shoot first players do we have? None.

I agree he is worthless defensively, but what he can bring to the table for the Wings is pretty valuable. We have enough Clearys, we need more brunners.


 
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#443 RusDRW

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:31 AM

 At the end of the day, the Wings are paying Sammy exactly that and Brunner IS better, worth more than Sammy at this point in his career, 

 

Sammy was a huge mistake and it seems our menegement wouldn't like to repeat it. From my POV Brunner's deficiencies are too big to be correctable. If a player in his rookie season do not go to the boards you have a huge problem. There are only few exceptions of good development of such players. Well, our beloved Cleary is coincidentially one of them :)...


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#444 matthewdanna

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:32 AM

I dont hate him. I like him. For 2.5 mil max.

 

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#445 RusDRW

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:38 AM

Uhh...have you seen the regular season and playoffs? He the definition of a natural goal scorer. The puck always found him. He's one dimensional in that he basically has zero defensive game but his purpose on this team would be to shoot and score goals. I think the term "floater" gets thrown around too often in these forums.

I'm not saying I think he's more valuable than Tatar or nyquist, it goes without saying that he is not, but how many successful shoot first players do we have? None.

I agree he is worthless defensively, but what he can bring to the table for the Wings is pretty valuable. We have enough Clearys, we need more brunners.

 

Wings tolerated players like Hull or Robitaille that had shoot-first mentality. Those guys were established and had reputation of scoring big goals though. Babcock's Red Wings are all about hardwork and so we can't allow a rookie to be THAT lazy. It may have a huge effect on other players.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#446 kylee

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

Brunner is definitely not a floater. He's a natural scorer. We have enough 2 way players. It's not like he's THAT bad defensively anyway.

#447 frankgrimes

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:32 AM

 

Wings tolerated players like Hull or Robitaille that had shoot-first mentality. Those guys were established and had reputation of scoring big goals though. Babcock's Red Wings are all about hardwork and so we can't allow a rookie to be THAT lazy. It may have a huge effect on other players.

 

Ever since Yzerman transformed into the 2 way genius, everyone is expecting pure forwards/goalscorers to become superb two-way players, guys like Toews, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are the exception not the norm. So expecting people with less god given talent to have such a great two-way game is just asking too much. if the guy can score around 30 - 35 goals a year I couldn't give less about his defensive responsibilities, primarely this should be the job of the defenders.


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#448 VM1138

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:39 AM

Really, Alfie's contract is like 2.9 with deferred bonus, and the cap hit is 3.5. Can we please stop pretending his cap hit is 5.5 and saying it's an overpayment? He is still an effective scorer. Tgis isn't like the Modano signing. There are no questions about his desire or ability to keep up and okay the game. Sports fans are so obsessed with age. 40 is just a number. He plays better than most of the 30 year olds.
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#449 Spongewingredpants

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:44 AM

i really thought the offeseason was about getting a top 4 d-man, resigning our guys minus Cleary and dumping Sammy....oh well, i was wrong

turns out we need to sign more forwards

My wish: A healthy roster

 

 


#450 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:45 AM

Really, Alfie's contract is like 2.9 with deferred bonus, and the cap hit is 3.5. Can we please stop pretending his cap hit is 5.5 and saying it's an overpayment? He is still an effective scorer. Tgis isn't like the Modano signing. There are no questions about his desire or ability to keep up and okay the game. Sports fans are so obsessed with age. 40 is just a number. He plays better than most of the 30 year olds.

 

I thought the same, but capgeek shows the caphit at $5.5M....now whether or not that is his actual cap hit, that is why the folks are yelling about it.  They look at capgeek, see the caphit at $5.5M and then react.  If $5.5M is not his caphit, then why doesn't capgeek show his hit correctly?


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#451 skyphoenix

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:56 AM

 

I thought the same, but capgeek shows the caphit at $5.5M....now whether or not that is his actual cap hit, that is why the folks are yelling about it.  They look at capgeek, see the caphit at $5.5M and then react.  If $5.5M is not his caphit, then why doesn't capgeek show his hit correctly?

There's a star next to it that says $2mil in bonuses. It's also not counted in our total salary as we still have $2.3mil in cap space when we'd actually be over the cap if it counted.


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#452 ogreslayer

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

 

I thought the same, but capgeek shows the caphit at $5.5M....now whether or not that is his actual cap hit, that is why the folks are yelling about it.  They look at capgeek, see the caphit at $5.5M and then react.  If $5.5M is not his caphit, then why doesn't capgeek show his hit correctly?

 

How to read capgeek 101:

 

The cap hit shown on individual players is the total potential impact if bonuses are fully paid out & charged against the year they were earned.  Remember, teams can elect to defer bonuses (up to 7.5% of the cap's upper limit only) to the following season depending on their cap situation.  That is why Alfredsson is showing $5.5m ($3.5m salary/$2m in bonus), Tatar at $840k ($680k salary/$160k bonus), & DeKeyser $1.35m ($500k salary/$850k bonus).  As mentioned already, hover over the star next to the player's cap payroll hit to see the bonus figure.  That puts the total possible cap payroll for the Wings as the roster stands right now at $65,002,879.  Capgeek assumes deferral up to that 7.5% limit so subtract out the total possible bonuses that could be deferred to the next season ($3,010,000) from the cap payroll (total possible hit of $65,002,879) for the Wings' current cap space of ~$2.3m.  

 

I assume the reason capgeek shows the full potential per individual is that they don't necessarily know if a bonus trigger will be reached & with the total limit of 7.5% of the upper cap per team for deferral in place, anywhere from all or none of an individual player's bonus might be eligible for deferral until the next season.  The only number then that they can accurately report on an individual basis is the full potential hit in the year the bonus was earned.  

 

Edit for TL:DR:  Capgeek can't make the call on whether an individual's bonus will be paid or deferred until the next season so they just reflect the total potential hit if the bonus is paid in the year it's earned.


Edited by ogreslayer, 07 July 2013 - 10:50 AM.


#453 brett

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:53 AM

i dont see brunner resigning i also dont see the wings replacing him with tatar. i can see sammy replacing him



#454 13dangledangle

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:03 AM

Im not sure if this has been said but I just saw it now, Brunner is/was asking 3.5 a year?   

 

Quote "Also, the reason forward Damien Brunner is exploring the market is the Red Wings declined to meet his asking price of $3.5 million per season"

 

linky (very bottom)http://www.mlive.com...iel_cleary.html

 

 

                                                               Do you want Brunner at 3.5?  I would not mind in his third year 3.5 but not after 48 games...


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#455 pucktividi

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:05 AM

$3.5M per...that's too much.I'd take him over Cleary,but he had one good season so 2.5-3M per sounds like a reasonable offer. One step at time boy,take a note from Flip and Weiss and you could earn a big contract even at the age of 30.



#456 The Axe

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

I hope some team picks him up for one year at 4 mil and he fails miserably. Then we reaquire him for 5 years at 2.5 mil per after Sammy and Bert are gone.

#457 barabbas16

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

 

Ever since Yzerman transformed into the 2 way genius, everyone is expecting pure forwards/goalscorers to become superb two-way players, guys like Toews, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are the exception not the norm. So expecting people with less god given talent to have such a great two-way game is just asking too much. if the guy can score around 30 - 35 goals a year I couldn't give less about his defensive responsibilities, primarely this should be the job of the defenders.

 

Did I fall asleep and miss when Brunner proved himself to be a 30 - 35 goal scorer?  Maybe that's why no one has given him $3.5 million per year yet.

 

Also, I think your thought process on forwards lacking defensive responsibilities is a complete joke.  Forwards have different defensive responsibilities than defenseman, but the difference is not negligible enough to where we should "give less" whether they play defense or not.  I think that "primarily this should be the job of the defenders" is a flawed statement.  Defense is an entire team effort and just because you put the puck in the net on one side of the ice doesn't mean you don't have to do anything on the other side.

 

That said, I don't hate Brunner.  And, I think that, given some more time playing NA hockey, he could improve his game to become a more complete player.  But, he was a hefty part of the reason Tatar was held back last season.  And, if he was re-signed, it seems like the Red Wings would be forced into doing that again.  Tatar has earned his shot at a full season.  He has to have a full chance to show what he can do, in my opinion.  And I don't think he gets that if Brunner is still on the roster.  I like Brunner and wish him well, but he just doesn't have a spot here anymore.  Thing is, he could have had one.... but he didn't want it.



#458 T.Low

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:38 PM

Brunner  has the most deadly shot on the team.  It seemed like 50% of his goals last year were terrific snipes that were placed just right, places other shooters would have been less likely to hit in the heat of battle.

And close in around the net, others just jamb away but he lifts it up and through holes.

 

His defense is underrated.  He is good with his stick, can thief from behind, poke and agitate well, and  the smaller ice is much easier for him to cut off passing lanes than it was in Europe.

 

Too often people mistake skating slowly through shooting lanes for floating.  He is not the guy you want mucking for pucks in the corner.  He is the guy that finds open shooting angles so the corner mucker can get the puck out to him for a one timer.  

 

Even when he has struggled and been ineffective and shut down all game long, he can find that open part of the ice in the chaos of the game's last minute of play, and bury the puck in the back of the net better than anyone else on the team.  

 

While Nyquist, Tatar, and Brunner are very similar players, they are not carbon copy's of each other.  They each have unique strengths and all add value to this team.  But noboby has a deadly and confident shot like Damian Brunner, and at the end of the game, it's all about getting goals in the net.  We need a guy who's primary obsession in life is to score goals, and he is it, and at a pretty good price.


Edited by T.Low, 07 July 2013 - 12:46 PM.


#459 The Axe

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:40 PM

Brunner  has the most deadly shot on the team.  It seemed like 50% of his goals last year were terrific snipes that were placed just right, places other shooters would have been less likely to hit.
And close in around the net, others just jamb away but he lifts it up and through holes.
 
His defense is underrated.  He is good with his stick, can thief behind, poke and agitate well, and  the smaller ice is much easier for him to cut off passing lanes than it was in Europe.
 
Too often people mistake skating slowly through shooting lanes for floating.  He is not the guy you want mucking for pucks in the corner.  He is the guy that finds open shooting angles so the corner mucker can get the puck out to him for a one timer.  
 
Even when he has struggled and been ineffective and shut down all game long, he can find that open part of the ice in the chaos of the game's last minute of play, and bury the puck in the back of the net better than anyone else on the team.  
 
While Nyquist, Tatar, and Brunner are very similar players, they are not carbon copy's of each other.  They each have unique strengths and all add value to this team.


Brunner is expendable. We dont need him. It would be nice to have him, but we dont have room.

#460 13dangledangle

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:46 PM

Brunner  has the most deadly shot on the team.  It seemed like 50% of his goals last year were terrific snipes that were placed just right, places other shooters would have been less likely to hit.

And close in around the net, others just jamb away but he lifts it up and through holes.

 

His defense is underrated.  He is good with his stick, can thief behind, poke and agitate well, and  the smaller ice is much easier for him to cut off passing lanes than it was in Europe.

 

Too often people mistake skating slowly through shooting lanes for floating.  He is not the guy you want mucking for pucks in the corner.  He is the guy that finds open shooting angles so the corner mucker can get the puck out to him for a one timer.  

 

Even when he has struggled and been ineffective and shut down all game long, he can find that open part of the ice in the chaos of the game's last minute of play, and bury the puck in the back of the net better than anyone else on the team.  

 

While Nyquist, Tatar, and Brunner are very similar players, they are not carbon copy's of each other.  They each have unique strengths and all add value to this team.

 

  I agree with all of this.  I feel Nyquist Tatar Brunner are all totally different players with different skill sets.   Nyquist has the playmaking ability and vision similar to Dastyuk (only other player on our team that natural at it game in and game out) Tatar is hard on the puck and bangs in goals like Crosby does, some are garbage goals some are pretty.  Brunner has speed, good hands and a f*cking bullet of a shot.  All three different and all three important.


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