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Brunner Contract Talks

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Sorry guys, but are we talking about the same Brunner that shot the OT goal in the 4th playoff against the Ducks? Who had a +3 balance against Chicago? Who had 15.35 TOI/G in the regular season, only to beat this mark to 13.07 TOI/G in the playoffs? Are you just mad he didn't sign and now you talk him down? Well, I am quite disappointed that the Wings could not keep him, and next season will tell whether that was a mistake or not.

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Guest Crymson

Sorry guys, but are we talking about the same Brunner that shot the OT goal in the 4th playoff against the Ducks? Who had a +3 balance against Chicago? Who had 15.35 TOI/G in the regular season, only to beat this mark to 13.07 TOI/G in the playoffs? Are you just mad he didn't sign and now you talk him down? Well, I am quite disappointed that the Wings could not keep him, and next season will tell whether that was a mistake or not.

Yep, the same Brunner who popped in the easiest OT goal in the world after Nyquist did all the work, who played against the 3rd line of Chicago, etc. etc.

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Brunner could save a lot of face right now by signing Kenny's offer and stating that he wants to help Detroit win the cup.

I think that I read that Kenny pulled the offer off the table. Like it or not, Kenny's priority is trying to get Cleary back and that will require dumping salary. No way can he get Cleary AND Brunner back. The only way Brunner comes back is if Cleary doesn't AND Brunner comes crawling back. He would have to fire his agent first though because no agent would come crawiling back. All of these things happening simultaneously are extreamly unlikely.

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The insane part of Sammy's contract was the term and the NTC. I wouldn't even be all that mad about it if not for those aspects. Two years at the same money wouldn't have been great, but I could have lived with it. Sammy came to this team with a lot of question marks (age, declining production, injury history), and the contract he was given all but ensured that if any of these concerns were legit, the team would be hamstrung by it. 2 years, same money, no NTC and I'd have been ok. Not great, but ok. Anything else and you might as well have rolled the dice and signed Semin. Even if he was a flop (which he wasn't) at six million per year, you'd still have paid him less in the long haul than you are going to pay to Sammy (even if he do buy him out at the end of next season).

Ah highsight...

I was originally not concerned that much with term or the NTC figuring that there would be amnesty buyouts post lockout. If not for the injury claim though...

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Guest The Axe

When their worst contract is Samuelsson at $3 mil with one year left, the team is in pretty good shape.

Yah, but this year has serious cup run wrotten on it. Gotta ditch the dead weight before it begins.

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When their worst contract is Samuelsson at $3 mil with one year left, the team is in pretty good shape.

I liked this point, though you could argue that 2 years of Tootoo at just under $2 million each is arguably worse. If it weren't somebody would've taken him off our hands by now for a conditional 7th by now.

Sammy, IF he actually played and stayed healthy for more than a few days, could theoretically do some things that occasionally border on a Top 6 forward. There is literally zero chance of that with Tootoo.

But at this point, neither of them are particularly harmful - it was just the combined impact of several crap contracts all at once. And yet, we had a built-in (cheap) fix for the problem because Holland had been assembling these Griffins players with late 1sts and 2nd rounders over the years.

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Guest RedWingsDad

I liked this point, though you could argue that 2 years of Tootoo at just under $2 million each is arguably worse. If it weren't somebody would've taken him off our hands by now for a conditional 7th by now.

I would argue that the Tootoo signing of 1.9 million a year was solid. Neither you or I know if Holland is at all interested in trading Tootoo - pure speculation on your part.

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I would argue that the Tootoo signing of 1.9 million a year was solid. Neither you or I know if Holland is at all interested in trading Tootoo - pure speculation on your part.

I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset. And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me.

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I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset. And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me.

There is no way 1.9mil for what tootoo brings is over payment. He just needs to be used.

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Guest RedWingsDad

I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset. And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me.

I agree that based on how he has been utilized, it is an overpayment. I am hoping he gets more play time next year as I thought he gave us a real boost at the beginning of the season when he dropped the gloves and layed out some big hits... not sure if his fall off towards the end of the season was due to reduced minutes, direction from management on how he should play, or if he just didn't bring it. If he is given the opportunity and plays with tenacity next season, I think he will be worth the contract. I still think our team needs his grit... he is a mostly one dimensional player, but that one dimension is unique on the team as far as I’m concerned. I don't count Abby and Ericcson as enforcers.

Edit: When Boston, Ottawa etc. start getting rough with our guys, I will be real happy to have a firecracker to toss at em instead of Abby, Ericcson (double meh)

Double Edit: Montreal, Ottowa, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Boston were all in the top 10 for fighting majors last year... so I think Tootoo will get utilized a bit more if he stays with the team.

Edited by RedWingsDad

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There is no way 1.9mil for what tootoo brings is over payment. He just needs to be used.

I think it is. Especially for 3 years, his price should've been lower.

He's a hard hitter but often takes himself way out of the play to make those hits. And it's nice to have someone who fights, though it seemed like most of his were meaningless staged scraps that weren't even for retribution.

I'm not a fan of Carcillo either but he just signed a 1 year deal for $825,000 and the most he's ever been paid is $1.08 mill. He's just the first reference point that came to mind, but what does Tootoo bring that warrants a million dollars more?

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I think it is. Especially for 3 years, his price should've been lower.

He's a hard hitter but often takes himself way out of the play to make those hits. And it's nice to have someone who fights, though it seemed like most of his were meaningless staged scraps that weren't even for retribution.

I'm not a fan of Carcillo either but he just signed a 1 year deal for $825,000 and the most he's ever been paid is $1.08 mill. He's just the first reference point that came to mind, but what does Tootoo bring that warrants a million dollars more?

tootoo has one heck of a wrist shot and he is one of if not the hardest worker on the ice when he is on the ice. He also has the heart of a lion. i would much rather give tootoo that then someone like eaves who is a dime a dozen.

Edited by hillbillywingsfan

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I'm not a Tootoo fan which I'm sure is part of it, but still he has a very specific role and skillset. And 3 years at $1.9 million for what he brings 9-12 minutes a night is overpayment to me.

It's not his agent's fault Babcock doesn't play him enough.

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Guest The Axe

I have to say, I believe that more often than not, good things happened when Tootoo was on the ice. He had one hell of a finish to the season IMO.

He is not big enough.

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It's also not his agent's fault for trying to get his client the best contract. It's Holland's for overpaying for a 4th liner.

Tootoo's TOI may have changed, but his skillset didn't.

So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

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It's also not his agent's fault for trying to get his client the best contract. It's Holland's for overpaying for a 4th liner.

Tootoo's TOI may have changed, but his skillset didn't.

So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

He doesn't bring more, just something different. And Eaves and Emmerton are both likely gone if everyone else is healthy

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He doesn't bring more, just something different. And Eaves and Emmerton are both likely gone if everyone else is healthy

He fights for one thing. How is that not more than these 3? And thats a big thing that the wings were missing from our team. Like I said before he goes 110% on the ice when he is on the ice. More than I can say about Emmerton for sure. Out of the 3 Miller is the only one that comes sort of close to Tootoo.

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So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

Well that's a different question about roster, not about Tootoo's salary.

I agree with DickieDunn that he doesn't bring more, just different. They can kill penalties and are much more defensively responsible. In the regular season Miller was our top PK forward in terms of TOI per game, Emmerton was 2nd. In the playoffs it was Miller, Emmerton, with Eaves at 4th. Freeing up Datsyuk's and Zetterberg PK minutes while still having a good penalty kill is already more valuable than the handful of staged fights Tootoo brings.

In terms of roster though I do think they have too many guys who are too similar on the bottom lines. It'd be great to bring more toughness, even if it means giving up a little bit of PK talent.

And don't get me wrong I like that the Wings have guys who will hit and drop the gloves, but it doesn't change that compared to other guys with similar skills, Tootoo was overpaid by Holland.

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Guest RedWingsDad

So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

Agreed, Tootoo wasn't signed to be a 4th line guy with 4th line numbers and minutes like Carcillo at 900k...hence the 1.9 million contract. There was obviously some roster plan for him that didn't pan out either due to injuries or decision by Babcock. I'd like to see him play a full season on the Wings with some decent minutes before deciding if 1.9 million was an overpayment.

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:D I like how the Brunner Contract Talks thread got turned into a Tootoo debate! Is Tootoo the next Fedorov? You know how it always seems that Fedorov got brought up in every thread for a long time? :lol:

Anyhow, regarding Brunner, do we know if he has even gotten any interest from teams out there? I heard the New Jersey rumor, but has anything else come up? I really hope he comes to his senses and just takes another contract from Detroit. I know that would require losing a couple of players (and that is where the Tootoo debate came from I am sure) but if losing Sammy or Emmerton and keeping Brunner is the option, then I will take that.

When it comes down to Tootoo, I definitely believe he has a place on this team. Again, if losing Emmy where the option, then I am all for it. Plus, when it comes to value around the NHL and what type of draft pick or future consideration each one would bring, Emmy has more value. On this team, after Andersson is signed, Emmy is redundant.

I just looked on capgeek and Holland has his work cut out for him. Our updated cap space is ONLY just a tick over $1M...Nyquist and Andersson MUST be signed and I would still like to see Brunner come back. But at the very least Nyquist and Andersson are going to cost us around $3M combined. So, that means another buyout and a trade or waiver for a couple of players. My choices would be Sammy (if possible,) Quincey, Emmerton.

Bottom line for me, I would love to have Brunner back here (for the right price) and wouldn't mind sacrificing the above mentioned to do so...

Edited by LeftWinger

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