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Talking Tootoo


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#21 GMRwings1983

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:19 PM

This isn't the '80s anymore.  With the salary cap and the way the game is played now, there just isn't room on a roster for one dimensional players.  As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, Tootoo isn't exactly a figher or an enforcer, he's more of a pest.  But he needs to bring more to the table than that.  He needs to score more, be good defensively, a good penalty killer, dominate on faceoffs, just something else.  Taking penalties at inopportune times doesn't help any either. 

 

I don't remember him taking any more dumb penalties than Smith, Quincey or Abdelkader.  What are these penalties that Tootoo took this season?  I don't remember him costing us too many games.  

 

He's not one-dimensional either.  Look at his career numbers and then look at Tony Twist's or Stu Grimson's.  How is Tootoo one-dimensional?  He fights and he lays good bodychecks.  Scores as many points as most 4th liners in the league.  What is he not doing right?  

 

I feel like there's too many posters here who look at all 4th line fighters as being in the same basket.  Too much stereotyping.  


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#22 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:16 AM

I don't understand how or why Tootoo should be bought out. He did exactly what was expected of him. Also, the "one-dimensional" argument baffles me. He put up 8 points in 42 games. For comparison, Emmerton put up 8 in 48. When I think of one-dimensional players, I think of John Scott and Jody Shelley. And the notion that "he takes stupid penalties" is laughable, considering guys like Smith and Abdelkader have, on several occasions, taken idiotic penalties at the worst possible times during games. Don't remember Tootoo blowing any games for us.
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#23 nuts2u

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:35 AM

Much rather have Tootoo than Cleary!



#24 beachwing

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

Im not sure the RW org wants or cares if we have a player sticking up for teammates.

Tootoo was obviously neutered in a lot of games and imo that came from coaching or Toots simply saw the writing on the wall....you can play like ur ballz are on fire but better not get a penalty cuz youll sit.

Im not sure Tootoo can fully display and play his game here which is sad because its effective.
Has to suck to want to win an help your team and do everything we signed him for but then he sits.

Im confident he will have a coulple dozen pts next season but unfortunatey we have seen even when guys produce, it doesnt earn them a spot or minutes...TAtar.

#25 Playmaker

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

How long ago did Tony Twist and Stu Grimson play? 

 

Tootoo isn't a fighter.  He's an agitator.  He doesn't hit enough, he doesn't drop the gloves very often, he doesn't stick up for his team mates, he's not big enough to scare anyone.  If he had done what he was brought here to do, he would have been in the lineup in the playoffs. 

 

As I mentioned before, the Preds invested a ton of time and money into Tootoo when he was going through his alcohol and other problems.  Why would they let him walk away for nothing, and let him sit during the playoffs also? 



#26 GMRwings1983

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

How long ago did Tony Twist and Stu Grimson play? 

 

Tootoo isn't a fighter.  He's an agitator.  He doesn't hit enough, he doesn't drop the gloves very often, he doesn't stick up for his team mates, he's not big enough to scare anyone.  If he had done what he was brought here to do, he would have been in the lineup in the playoffs. 

 

As I mentioned before, the Preds invested a ton of time and money into Tootoo when he was going through his alcohol and other problems.  Why would they let him walk away for nothing, and let him sit during the playoffs also? 

 

LOL.  How is he not a fighter?  He's had almost 90 fights in his NHL career.  Do you have to hit 100 fights to be considered a fighter now?  Look at our roster of milk sops, and then you'll know why Tootoo is a fighter.  The rest of those guys combined probably don't have 90 fights.  An agitator that doesn't fight is someone like Maltby or Cooke.  Pretty sad if you can't tell the difference.      

 

Also, he hits more often than any of our current 4th liners.  I remember him laying some big hits this season.  How often do Miller or Eaves hit anyone?  Emmerton couldn't hit a bong.  Tootoo excited the Wings fans everytime he was on the ice.  Mostly because they've been starving for a guy like that since the last time we dressed an enforcer (Brad May).     

 

He did what he was brought here to do.  He hit, worked hard and fought more than the rest of our team combined.  Yeah, he doesn't scare the bigger fighters, but it's not his fault he didn't have any backup this season the way Holland  assembles the roster.  Tootoo had to do all the tough, dirty work in the physicality department.  

 

The Preds let him go because he became expendable.  Most 4th liners are expendable, including Tootoo.  But on a team like the Wings, he's currently the only player that fills his type of role.  

 

Why didn't he play in the playoffs?  Because he's not the type of player Babcock and Holland like.  


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#27 Playmaker

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:11 PM

LOL.  So Holland signed him to a 3 year deal at 1.9 million per season because "he's not the type of player Holland likes"  Really?  He rode the pine in the 2012 playoffs, too.  Is he not the type of player Barry Trotz and David Poile like either?  Coaches and GMs like the type of players that help them win. 

 

Fourth liners are expendepable? Drew Miller clearly wasn't expendable.  Darren Helm isn't expendable.  The Grind Line wasn't expendable.  4th liners that do their jobs and contribute aren't expendable. 



#28 DeGraa55

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:31 PM

LOL.  So Holland signed him to a 3 year deal at 1.9 million per season because "he's not the type of player Holland likes"  Really?  He rode the pine in the 2012 playoffs, too.  Is he not the type of player Barry Trotz and David Poile like either?  Coaches and GMs like the type of players that help them win. 
 
Fourth liners are expendepable? Drew Miller clearly wasn't expendable.  Darren Helm isn't expendable.  The Grind Line wasn't expendable.  4th liners that do their jobs and contribute aren't expendable.


Actually they're all expendable.

#29 GMRwings1983

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:38 PM

LOL.  So Holland signed him to a 3 year deal at 1.9 million per season because "he's not the type of player Holland likes"  Really?  He rode the pine in the 2012 playoffs, too.  Is he not the type of player Barry Trotz and David Poile like either?  Coaches and GMs like the type of players that help them win. 

 

Fourth liners are expendepable? Drew Miller clearly wasn't expendable.  Darren Helm isn't expendable.  The Grind Line wasn't expendable.  4th liners that do their jobs and contribute aren't expendable. 

 

By expendable, I mean they're easy to find around the market for cheap prices.  They're absolutely important for any team's success, but still expendable.  Drew Miller is expendable.  Helm isn't, but he's more of a 3rd liner when healthy.  He's a unique player for us.  

 

Holland signed Downey and May in the past as well.  I think we've seen enough from Kenny and Babcock to make a fair assessment that they're not too keen on guys who fight a lot and play a physical style.  Maybe they'll occasionally sign a guy like Tootoo or May, but eventually, they phase them out of the lineup.  In general, Babcock and Holland prefer smaller, less physical 4th liners.  Not big, grinding forwards that like to punish defenders and drop the gloves.  If they say otherwise, then their actions don't support their words.  We've been a small team on the lower lines for as long as I can remember.            



Actually they're all expendable.

 

Pretty much.  Each team only has a handful of players that are untouchable and not expendable.  

 

Certainly, not any 4th line player.


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#30 beachwing

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:19 PM

Dude electrified the Jo and his teammates much in the way Helm does. His fighting I can take or leave but his hitting and energy are undeniable.

Its been said on the forums before...opponents were aware wen 22 was on the ice. That in itself is something other than Helm, nobody can offer from our current 4th line.

Again, i wish we had a Dmac but not too many of those around....and sure I would have loved Tootoo to jump on the ice and beat the hell out of Shaw and Bickel but I dont feel the Wings staff want that.

I still rather kill off 4 chArging/roughing penalties than 4 weak ass Cleary/Smith/Abby lazy interference ones.

22 can create havoc for his limited minutes IF the Wings will let him!

#31 Playmaker

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

 

By expendable, I mean they're easy to find around the market for cheap prices.  They're absolutely important for any team's success, but still expendable.  Drew Miller is expendable.  Helm isn't, but he's more of a 3rd liner when healthy.  He's a unique player for us.  

 

Holland signed Downey and May in the past as well.  I think we've seen enough from Kenny and Babcock to make a fair assessment that they're not too keen on guys who fight a lot and play a physical style.  Maybe they'll occasionally sign a guy like Tootoo or May, but eventually, they phase them out of the lineup.  In general, Babcock and Holland prefer smaller, less physical 4th liners.  Not big, grinding forwards that like to punish defenders and drop the gloves.  If they say otherwise, then their actions don't support their words.  We've been a small team on the lower lines for as long as I can remember.            



 

Pretty much.  Each team only has a handful of players that are untouchable and not expendable.  

 

Certainly, not any 4th line player.

LOL.  Brad May and Aaron Downey?  If you are upset that either of those two didn't earn a spot, really, what more can be said.

 

I keep hearing he's not one dimensional, but what else does he do besides drop the gloves on the opening faceoff to settle a personal score? 

 

The Wings don't have "big grinding forwards that can drop the gloves" any more or less than any other team does.  Because in this century, guys who are big, can hit and contribute at both ends of the ice aren't exactly a dime a dozen.  Anyone who's physical, like Abdelkader and can contribute other things, don't fight as often because they're too valuable to be sitting in the box.



#32 joshy207

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

1)  Tootoo wore out his welcome in Nashville also.  Gotta think that if Babcock and Trotz, two of the best, most respected coaches in the NHL are benching him, maybe they know something we don't?

 

2)  We can't use a compliance buyout on him as he makes less than $3M.  We could use a regular buyout on him, but I don't the point for a guy who's only got 2 years left at $1.8M

 

The $3M floor was only for the "accelerated" buyouts last summer, created specifically for Redden and Gomez so they wouldn't be just sent home by their old clubs.  Compliance buyouts this summer and next can be used on players with any cap hit.  This per capgeek...  http://www.capgeek.com/new-cba/



#33 The Axe

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

Never liked the Tootoo signing. He's not Detroit matrrial.

#34 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

Never liked the Tootoo signing. He's not Detroit matrrial.

 

I guess Holland thinks otherwise.



#35 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:46 PM

I like Tootoo and all just basically no playoff action for him this year? 1 game?

 

I question things.

 

I like Tootoo as long as he's on our team.

 

And he had the Joe hyped up a few times this past year.

 

Fun to watch...



#36 The Axe

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:48 PM

 
I guess Holland thinks otherwise.


Never liked Holland.

#37 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:27 PM

Never liked Holland.

 

hehe ok I respect that :lol:



#38 The Axe

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

 
hehe ok I respect that :lol:


:-)

I just want our tough guy to be able to hurt someone and demoralize the other team. Tootoo doesnt offer enough brute strength.

#39 Hairy Lime

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

Never liked the Tootoo signing. He's not Detroit matrrial.

What's up with this "holier-than-thou" attitude that so many Wings fans have developed? It's getting to the point where only The Amish can play for Detroit ... except "The Amish Mafia"; they're too "thug" for this organization. I mean, nobody wanted Jeff Carter because he would have been a "bad seed". Nobody wanted Bertuzzi because of "the incident". It seemed like most fans liked Avery when he was here, but then hated him after he left. Most fans had no problem with the Chelios trade, and he was a pretty dirty player in his Montreal and Chicago days. Was Dallas Drake "Detroit material"? Drake was a better goal scorer earlier in his career, but both he and Tootoo play similar games/roles, and Drake was a HUGE presence for Detroit in the '08 Cup run. I think Tootoo could have brought that same presence and intensity if he had been given the chance. 

 

I'm just really not understanding the Tootoo hate on here. I can understand not liking him from his Nashville days, but he's here now, and he brought something to Detroit that this team sorely lacked: TOUGHNESS! He played *mostly* disciplined hockey, came to the defense of his teammates, and probably would have scored more goals than Abdelkadfer had he been given the luxury of playing with Datsyuk. I think people will be glad he's on this team next season, though without a true enforcer or some size up front, Detroit might still be in trouble.    



#40 Red Crazy

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:29 PM

The only thing wrong with Tootoo being a Red Wing is that Babcock has no idea how to and when to use this type of player. Kind of like the May and Downey days. Tootoo could have picked his spots a bit better this season but he excited the crowed on got his team going when he dropped the mitts isn't that his job? As far as him being a liability for taking dumb penalties that is pretty weak at best. I just wish he was a foot taller.







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