Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Tsn:Off-Season Game Plan: Detroit Red Wings


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#21 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,757 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

 

Ericsson is a converted defenseman.

 

Well aware. The post you quoted was in response to his post referring to Helm, Emmerton, Dats and Zetterberg. 

 

He went from discussing players who play defense as well as forward to discussing defensive forwards....


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#22 Hockeymom1960

Hockeymom1960

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,227 posts

Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

 

Well aware. The post you quoted was in response to his post referring to Helm, Emmerton, Dats and Zetterberg. 

 

He went from discussing players who play defense as well as forward to discussing defensive forwards....

 

Yes, I understand.  That what I was referring to.



#23 Kronstantinov

Kronstantinov

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 61 posts

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:10 AM

This is an off season I am very curious and excited about. Holland has to do something about the logjam at forward especially bottom 6 ones. The Wings will have their highest draft choice in decades in what is supposed to be a very deep draft. The buyouts should make things very interesting and should amount to the best free agent field ever.



#24 Nightfall

Nightfall

    My goal is to deny yours!

  • Gold Booster
  • 3,744 posts
  • Location:Grand Rapids

Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:19 AM

This is the heart of it:

 

 

Holland certainly didn't have that sense of urgency regarding Lidstrom's retirement.  Will he with Dats and Z?  Or will he be content to tweak and keep the Wings good but not great, hoping Babcock and some younger players can pull off something special in the next couple seasons?

 

While I agree, I really have to wonder what Holland really CAN do about the situation.  Lets face facts here.  We are going to have to trade talent for talent if we want to hit the trade market.  If you look at the players on the two teams in the finals now, they are relying on younger players to carry the team along with their vets.  You have Krug in Boston that is a very capable defenseman.  You have Leddy and Shaw in Chicago who are also proving themselves.  We need our young players to step up and help our vets out, which Nyquist did with Detroit this post season.  The disappointing fact is that our Vets didn't do very well in the Chicago series.

 

I don't mind seeing Holland make some moves, but I don't have any lofty expectations of us being able to get everything on our needs list.  Pittsburgh loaded up last season and mortgaged their future for sure.  Wings fans love consistency.  Would fans as a whole approve of moves to make us a Cup contender for 1-2 years only to not make the playoffs for 2-3 years after our stars retire?  I know I would.


Christopher Brian Dudek
My Domain

#25 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,462 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:22 AM

This is the heart of it:


 
 
Holland certainly didn't have that sense of urgency regarding Lidstrom's retirement.  Will he with Dats and Z?  Or will he be content to tweak and keep the Wings good but not great, hoping Babcock and some younger players can pull off something special in the next couple seasons?


To me it's about the team, not whether or not 1 or 2 players win the cup

#26 puckbags

puckbags

    The Future

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,601 posts
  • Location:Cobble Hill, BC, Canada ( 2,522 Miles from the Joe)

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Ericsson
Franzen-Helm-Smith
Tatar-Andersson-Nyquist
Miller-Emmerton-Abdelkader

Tootoo-Shehan

Kronwall-Quincey
Kindl-Dekeyser
Lashoff-Colo

Almquist

Howard
Gustavsson


Thats a killer squad.

Let all the UFA's walk. Buy out Sammy and Bert. Save 10 mil in cap space for a great deadline deal or two that moves Rig and Smith back to D in April, if the strategy isnt working. Good skaters can play multiple positions. Fedorov, Dandenault, and Ericsson all have played D and F during their careers. The transition is only hard if a player cant skate well.

 

Are you for real with this? lol...not everyone can just go d to forward like Burns can and have modest success.  If Vince McMahon ever decides to go XFL style with the NHL I want you to be first in line for a GM job.  


"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Refuses to Work Hard"

 

LGW after 1 loss is irrational, after a few in a row it becomes quite comical, 22 playoff appearances in a row and 4 cups in that time and still going strong. Relaxxxxx !!
 


#27 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,177 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:32 PM

The TSN.ca Rating is an efficiency rating based on per-game statistics including goals and assists -- weighted for strength (ie. power play, even, shorthanded) -- plus-minus, hits, blocked shots, giveaways, takeaways, penalty differential and faceoffs. (Stats are listed in this format: G-A-PTS, +/-, PIM, GP). Generally, a replacement-level player is around a 60, a top six forward and top four defenceman will be 70-plus, stars will be over 80 and MVP candidates could go over 90. Sidney Crosby finished at the top of the 2013 regular season ratings with a 93.65.

 

 

dats got a 79.96 rating, and Z with the 78.13... according to tsn dats and Z are just top 6 forwards, not even stars, let alone anywhere near Crosby's 93.65...



#28 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,617 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:23 PM

The TSN.ca Rating is an efficiency rating based on per-game statistics including goals and assists -- weighted for strength (ie. power play, even, shorthanded) -- plus-minus, hits, blocked shots, giveaways, takeaways, penalty differential and faceoffs. (Stats are listed in this format: G-A-PTS, +/-, PIM, GP). Generally, a replacement-level player is around a 60, a top six forward and top four defenceman will be 70-plus, stars will be over 80 and MVP candidates could go over 90. Sidney Crosby finished at the top of the 2013 regular season ratings with a 93.65.

 

 

dats got a 79.96 rating, and Z with the 78.13... according to tsn dats and Z are just top 6 forwards, not even stars, let alone anywhere near Crosby's 93.65...

 

well, because according to all NHL media outlets, there is Crosby and then there is everybody else...  For my money, I take Datsyuk over Crosby everyday and twice on Sunday... Complete players are better than one way players...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#29 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,586 posts

Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

The TSN.ca Rating is an efficiency rating based on per-game statistics including goals and assists -- weighted for strength (ie. power play, even, shorthanded) -- plus-minus, hits, blocked shots, giveaways, takeaways, penalty differential and faceoffs. (Stats are listed in this format: G-A-PTS, +/-, PIM, GP). Generally, a replacement-level player is around a 60, a top six forward and top four defenceman will be 70-plus, stars will be over 80 and MVP candidates could go over 90. Sidney Crosby finished at the top of the 2013 regular season ratings with a 93.65.
 
 
dats got a 79.96 rating, and Z with the 78.13... according to tsn dats and Z are just top 6 forwards, not even stars, let alone anywhere near Crosby's 93.65...



I think a big part has to do with the sexy stats. Like goals and assist. Dats and z don't carry a team by scoring goals. Let's not forget their age and decline. A better comparision would be like at crybaby now and then look at z and DAT at the same age.

well, because according to all NHL media outlets, there is Crosby and then there is everybody else...  For my money, I take Datsyuk over Crosby everyday and twice on Sunday... Complete players are better than one way players...



Crosby is a complete player lol. Crosby and Malkin now are what DAT and z used to be. Get past your hate.

#30 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:09 PM

I think a big part has to do with the sexy stats. Like goals and assist. Dats and z don't carry a team by scoring goals. Let's not forget their age and decline. A better comparision would be like at crybaby now and then look at z and DAT at the same age.



Crosby is a complete player lol. Crosby and Malkin now are what DAT and z used to be. Get past your hate.

I don't think they have declined at all, just had better teammates before. Datsyuk finished 10th in league scoring and is superior to everyone above him defensively and he did with a 4th liner as his linemate and no sexy linemates. Crosby takes chances to score leaving more opportunities for their opponents to score, he cheats offensively to create chances for himself but they also create chances for the opposition and he is a terrible leader with h9s hissy fits when things are going his way. Those things affect your teammates. We were 1 goal shy of beating the team that beat the team that beat the Pens 4 straight.



#31 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,586 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:29 AM

I don't think they have declined at all, just had better teammates before. Datsyuk finished 10th in league scoring and is superior to everyone above him defensively and he did with a 4th liner as his linemate and no sexy linemates. Crosby takes chances to score leaving more opportunities for their opponents to score, he cheats offensively to create chances for himself but they also create chances for the opposition and he is a terrible leader with h9s hissy fits when things are going his way. Those things affect your teammates. We were 1 goal shy of beating the team that beat the team that beat the Pens 4 straight.




Do you watch hockey at all? Just the eyeball test proves with 100% fact they have declined. Now DAT being older has actually declined less than z(helps having so.much more skill).

#32 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:11 AM

Do you watch hockey at all? Just the eyeball test proves with 100% fact they have declined. Now DAT being older has actually declined less than z(helps having so.much more skill).

Actually yes.

Maybe you should eyeball the TSN plays of the year. You replace Abby with someone with a modicum of hockey sense (Tatar or Iginla or Horton for example) he would score significantly more and your eyeballs would see a whole different story.
 



#33 haroldsnepsts

haroldsnepsts

    "Classy"

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 16,913 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:15 AM

To me it's about the team, not whether or not 1 or 2 players win the cup

 

 

I wasn't saying Holland should make a move so Datsyuk and Zetterberg can win the Cup again before they retire.  I'm saying like with Lidstrom, two great players on the team are nearing the end of their prime years so he should take advantage before there's two huge holes in the lineup where they used to be.



#34 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,617 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:22 AM

I think a big part has to do with the sexy stats. Like goals and assist. Dats and z don't carry a team by scoring goals. Let's not forget their age and decline. A better comparision would be like at crybaby now and then look at z and DAT at the same age.



Crosby is a complete player lol. Crosby and Malkin now are what DAT and z used to be. Get past your hate.

 

When Crosby and Malkin are nominated for the Selke along with being in the top 10 in the league in scoring, then they will be complete players... Show me where Crosby is even considered a top two way forward...  Datsyuk may not score as much as Crosby, but I will take to 70-100 points and be the best defensive forward over an Art Ross everytime....anytime...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#35 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,617 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:29 AM

Do you watch hockey at all? Just the eyeball test proves with 100% fact they have declined. Now DAT being older has actually declined less than z(helps having so.much more skill).

 

I don't think Dats has declined anywhere near as much as you would like to have had him decline.  It has a TON to do with the linemates.  When he was nearing 100 points for a couple of seasons he had a Franzen who didn't yet decide to coast the rest of his career and he had Hossa, oh then there was the line of him, Zetterberg and Holmstrom...

 

Who has he had the last couple of seasons? He has had a ghost of Franzen and that is it, this year he had Cleary and Abby for a stretch.  When he was reunited with Zetterberg he got his points a little more often, but not as much as he would if he would have a legit sniper on his line... You get someone who can score 40-50 goals to play with him and watch his point total's inflate to 100 points again... I do not know why you are so quick to write both of these guys off...


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#36 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:40 AM

Crosby is a complete player lol. Crosby and Malkin now are what DAT and z used to be. Get past your hate.

 

Crosby and Malkin do not come close to equaling the defensive prowess of Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Aside from EA Sports, nobody has ever called Crosby an excellent defensive forward, nor Malkin either.



#37 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:53 AM

 

I don't think Dats has declined anywhere near as much as you would like to have had him decline.  It has a TON to do with the linemates.  When he was nearing 100 points for a couple of seasons he had a Franzen who didn't yet decide to coast the rest of his career and he had Hossa, oh then there was the line of him, Zetterberg and Holmstrom...

 

Who has he had the last couple of seasons? He has had a ghost of Franzen and that is it, this year he had Cleary and Abby for a stretch.  When he was reunited with Zetterberg he got his points a little more often, but not as much as he would if he would have a legit sniper on his line... You get someone who can score 40-50 goals to play with him and watch his point total's inflate to 100 points again... I do not know why you are so quick to write both of these guys off...

People's perception of what they see are influenced by the numbers. In 2011-12 after we won the first 4 or 5  we lost the next 4 or 5 (one of them a blowout to Washington, with a terrible game by Conklin)to start the season. During the losing streak people were talking like we won't make the playoffs, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are washed up, we can't score, serious changes need to be made,  the team sucks (check out the threads in late October early November 2011, it was ridicKulous)... Meanwhile, I kept arguing that we played great and that sometimes the better team doesn't win. We went on a winning streak after that and everything was hunky dory again for everybody but we played just as well during the losing streak, got stoned by some great goaltending, had bad goaltending from Conklin, had bad calls work against us and just didn't have the puck luck, we were just as good during the losing streak as we were during the winning streaks before and after.
Datsyuk is as good as ever.


Edited by Johnz96, 26 June 2013 - 08:27 AM.


#38 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,177 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

 

Crosby and Malkin do not come close to equaling the defensive prowess of Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Aside from EA Sports, nobody has ever called Crosby an excellent defensive forward, nor Malkin either.

 

I'm sure Bettman would :P



#39 Dabura

Dabura

    Everydayer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,062 posts
  • Location:In an octopus's garden

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

This is the heart of it:

 

 

Holland certainly didn't have that sense of urgency regarding Lidstrom's retirement.  Will he with Dats and Z?  Or will he be content to tweak and keep the Wings good but not great, hoping Babcock and some younger players can pull off something special in the next couple seasons?

 

Agreed. Thankfully, (and, honestly, this has me pretty excited), it seems like he gets it.


Don't Toews me, bro!






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users