Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Nyquist or Tatar


  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#1 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:22 AM

In his article today, John Niyo of the Detroit News suggested that the Wings should seriously consider trading any one of their young up and comers (not named Dekeyer).  He listed Kindl and Smith by name and lumped all the young forwards as potentials as well.  I don't want this thread to become a debate about the merits of Niyo's suggestion, but rather wanted to know who you'd all rather keep if it came down to trading Tatar or Nyquist.  I think one of the two is likely on the way out for a couple reasons.  They're stock is about as high as it's going to get.  There's very little roster space as it is without adding anybody from outside the organization.  Also it would be a bit redundant to have Tatar, Nyquist, AND Brunner on this team.  That's a lot of small skilled euros on a team that keeps talking about getting bigger each year. 

 

My thoughts?  Nyquist is undeniably talented and showed good chemistry and skill with Andersson and Brunner in the playoffs.  However, Tatar had the better season in terms of point production, seems to attack the net more, and might have leap frogged Nyquist after his Calder Cup performance.  Tough call, but I've got to say I'd rather keep Tatar. 

 

So, your thoughts?


Edited by kipwinger, 24 June 2013 - 12:25 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#2 hooon

hooon

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,224 posts
  • Location:Denver

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:31 AM

Well, I know you said don't argue about the merits of the article, but I'd rather we keep both of them. If I absolutely had to choose only one, I would take Nyquist probably. 

 

Obviously everything depends on what was offered, but I don't think the young small Euros are as redundant as all the low scoring PK specialist bottom 6ers the wings have. 


Posted Image

#3 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,822 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:34 AM

My opinion is keep Nyquist.

 

Tatar would be on my trade list.

 

However Tatar would have to be included in a package for someone really special.



#4 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:38 AM

Well, I know you said don't argue about the merits of the article, but I'd rather we keep both of them. If I absolutely had to choose only one, I would take Nyquist probably. 

 

Obviously everything depends on what was offered, but I don't think the young small Euros are as redundant as all the low scoring PK specialist bottom 6ers the wings have. 

 

I can certainly agree with this, however I guess the reason I'm suggesting it's redundant is because I think we need a more balanced approach to our scoring lines.  In general I like the shooter-playmaker-net front scrapper dynamic.  So it's possible that you could have one of each on the top three lines and pair them with the appropriate playmakers and thumpers, but given the way Detroit tends to start youngsters out on the third line, I'd expect two of the three are likely to be on the third line with Helm or Andersson next season, which is redundant. 



My opinion is keep Nyquist.

 

Tatar would be on my trade list.

 

However Tatar would have to be included in a package for someone really special.

 

For sure, I guess I was implying that from the start but didn't explicitly say so.  I certainly wouldn't trade them just for the sake of doing so, and it should be noted that Niyo wasn't suggesting that either. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#5 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,822 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:50 AM

For sure, I guess I was implying that from the start but didn't explicitly say so.  I certainly wouldn't trade them just for the sake of doing so, and it should be noted that Niyo wasn't suggesting that either. 

 

No worries that you would trade Nyquist over Tatar I disagree but it's all good.

 

Question then is though for who or what?

 

I don't even know who is on the trading block right now that could help our team?

 

Obviously one or the other would have to be part of a package deal I would think.

 

I agree that both of their values right now are at a high. No doubt.

 

 

.


Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 24 June 2013 - 12:51 AM.


#6 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,545 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:00 AM

I pretty much agree with u kip. A trade of any kind is unlikely right now IMO, but I would keep Tatar. Tatar is about at the same level as Nyquist, and is younger. He also plays a more well rounded game IMO. Nyquist honestly strikes me as Hudler/Filppula 3.0

#7 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:01 AM

 

No worries that you would trade Nyquist over Tatar I disagree but it's all good.

 

Question then is though for who or what?

 

I don't even know who is on the trading block right now that could help our team?

 

Obviously one or the other would have to be part of a package deal I would think.

 

I agree that both of their values right now are at a high. No doubt.

 

 

.

 

Ideally I'd trade them to a team looking to move some salary out, and even more ideally it would be for a young scorer or top pairing defenseman.  Yandle or Bobby Ryan come to mind.  I don't know if either are available, but they've been rumored to have been on the block in the past and even recently as well.  Again, obviously rumors but that's what I'd be looking for.  Bobby would score like gangbusters on our top line and would allow us to slot Franzen against second pairing d-men, thus exploiting that mismatch.  And Yandle would seriously help our transition game which looked lackluster this year.  I really think we need someone that can help transition from defense to offense a little more effectively. 

 

Those are just two names, but their could be more if I really  dug into it. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#8 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,822 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:07 AM

 

Ideally I'd trade them to a team looking to move some salary out, and even more ideally it would be for a young scorer or top pairing defenseman.  Yandle or Bobby Ryan come to mind.  I don't know if either are available, but they've been rumored to have been on the block in the past and even recently as well.  Again, obviously rumors but that's what I'd be looking for.  Bobby would score like gangbusters on our top line and would allow us to slot Franzen against second pairing d-men, thus exploiting that mismatch.  And Yandle would seriously help our transition game which looked lackluster this year.  I really think we need someone that can help transition from defense to offense a little more effectively. 

 

Those are just two names, but their could be more if I really  dug into it. 

 

My first thought was Bobby Ryan immediately. But yeah don't know really if he is available. However Philly thinks that Bobby is. IDK rumors.

 

Yandle yeah I'm not so sure on. Tatar or Nyquist aren't worth giving up for Yandle considering our supposedly "deep" defensemen pool.

 

That's my opinion of course.,



#9 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:11 AM

 

My first thought was Bobby Ryan immediately. But yeah don't know really if he is available. However Philly thinks that Bobby is. IDK rumors.

 

Yandle yeah I'm not so sure on. Tatar or Nyquist aren't worth giving up for Yandle considering our supposedly "deep" defensemen pool.

 

That's my opinion of course.,

 

The thing I like about Yandle is that he's a top flight puck mover, signed to a reasonable contract for a few more years.  You'd have him well through his prime, and by the time his contract is up your young d-men would be coming into their own.  Let him walk after the contract, but realistically it's going to take any of Backman, Sproul, Ouellet, at least three years to develop fully (best case scenario) and you'd have Yandle there to act as a bridge during that time. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#10 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,545 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:14 AM

Edit: never mind

Edited by number9, 24 June 2013 - 01:16 AM.


#11 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,822 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:18 AM

 

The thing I like about Yandle is that he's a top flight puck mover, signed to a reasonable contract for a few more years.  You'd have him well through his prime, and by the time his contract is up your young d-men would be coming into their own.  Let him walk after the contract, but realistically it's going to take any of Backman, Sproul, Ouellet, at least three years to develop fully (best case scenario) and you'd have Yandle there to act as a bridge during that time. 

 

True very true.

 

Can't argue with you. But both Nyquist and Tatar are a few years younger than Yandle.

 

Don't get me wrong I see where your coming from.

 

As I would love to have Yandle however I just don't think he's worth a package deal of Tatar or Nyquist from us.

 

Again that's my opinion



#12 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:22 AM

 

True very true.

 

Can't argue with you. But both Nyquist and Tatar are a few years younger than Yandle.

 

Don't get me wrong I see where your coming from.

 

As I would love to have Yandle however I just don't think he's worth a package deal of Tatar or Nyquist from us.

 

Again that's my opinion

 

Fair enough, I can respect that.  I think we both agree though that it would have to be someone with that kind of talent level. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#13 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

St. Michael (the Red Wing)

    Heavenly With the Puck

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,822 posts
  • Location:Mankato, MN

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:26 AM

 

Fair enough, I can respect that.  I think we both agree though that it would have to be someone with that kind of talent level. 

 

Definitely and I do respect where you are coming from in this thread.

 

Well done.



#14 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,689 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:31 AM

Edit: never mind

 

Haha, I wondered why you posted that one twice.  The thing I like about Tatar over Nyquist is that he seems more tenacious.  He's always attacking the net.  I worry that Nyquist is a little to passive in his overall approach, which is good for a playmaker, but not so great for a goal scorer.  And I think that we need more goal scorers on this team. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#15 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,545 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:36 AM

IMO, having Datsyuk and Zetterberg means we need big bodies and elite scorers to compliment them. That's why Franzen and Bertuzzi work well in our system, and why Hudler and Filppula do not. Mule and Bert can at least bring the big body. Hudler and Filppula are both small not elite scorers. Unless they grow, or slap pucks like hull or federov, they don't belong in a top 6 with elite set up men like z and d

#16 number9

number9

    All The Best Players Wear A 9

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,545 posts
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:41 AM

 
Haha, I wondered why you posted that one twice.  The thing I like about Tatar over Nyquist is that he seems more tenacious.  He's always attacking the net.  I worry that Nyquist is a little to passive in his overall approach, which is good for a playmaker, but not so great for a goal scorer.  And I think that we need more goal scorers on this team. 


I'm thinking the exact same thing. Nyquist is of the Zetterberg/Datsyuk mold, however he's worse than them. So to me, Tatar is the better option. He brings something we dont already have. He's of a very different mold that I can't quite pin down. I don't know what it is, but I like it. Very well rounded, very tenacious, very hungry.

#17 wingsfan4795

wingsfan4795

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,651 posts
  • Location:Libertyville Illinois

Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:06 AM

Nyquist seems to play less "European" than Tatar. I don't know why, maybe its because of the time he spent at Maine, but he seems to have more grinder qualities. He reminds me more of Helm, where tatar is more like filppula. Both have some datsyukian qualities, which is obviously a positive


Good rule of thumb is always take an octopus everywhere. Better to have one and not need it than find yourself thinking, "Damn, I wish I had that octopus".

 

-Buppy


#18 RyanBarnes!

RyanBarnes!

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,937 posts

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:00 AM

The thing I like about Yandle is that he's a top flight puck mover, signed to a reasonable contract for a few more years.  You'd have him well through his prime, and by the time his contract is up your young d-men would be coming into their own.  Let him walk after the contract, but realistically it's going to take any of Backman, Sproul, Ouellet, at least three years to develop fully (best case scenario) and you'd have Yandle there to act as a bridge during that time.

I seriously doubt that any of those mentioned will outplay Smith in a few years.

As for the thread topic, I rank Tatar slightly above Nyquist at this point because of his goal scoring touch.
"Joey (Kocur) has no fear" -Lyndon Byers
"Empty-net goals are for homos" -Al Iafrate

#19 Kronstantinov

Kronstantinov

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 61 posts

Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:04 AM

Tatar. He is younger, grittier and more of a shooter.



#20 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,518 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:49 AM

They are so close talent-wise. It comes down to Tatar's aggressive goal scoring and playing much bigger than he is against Nyquist's superior playmaking and better defense. I'm not too worried about having Brunner, Tatar, and Nyquist. Tatar doesn't play small, Nyquist has a well rounded game and Brunner is dedicated to improve his game in every area.
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users