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Lidstrom or Orr


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#41 Johnz96

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:38 AM

 

I'm 32 years old.

 

How old are you?

I'm 45 but people can't believe I'm over 30



#42 kipwinger

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

 

On that logic, Gretzky was overrated too.  Score 237 points against Price, Kiprusoff or Lundqvist.  Couldn't do it.

 

Flawed logic.  Orr wouldn't score 150 points in today's league, but I firmly believe he'd lead defensemen in scoring easily.  If he was that far advanced in his era and that good at reading the game, with today's training and equipment, he'd be ahead of this generation of players as well.   

 

Once again, how come nobody else scored that many points back then on defense?  Oh yeah, that's right, because Larry Robinson, Brad Park, Denis Potvin and others were all overrated.   :rolleyes:     And I could also mention others who played in the 80's, when goalies were even worse and scoring was at its highest.  

 

I agree, he was better than any other defenseman in his era.  He was the very first "offensive defenseman".  That's the reason he scored so much...because he tried to do it.  In those days all defensemen were stay-at-home.  That's how they played the game.  Bobby revolutionized that.  HOWEVER, saying that he's the best of his age doesn't then also mean that he's the best ever.  Bobby could never do that against today's competition because everybody does it now, and therefore teams plan for it.  Lidstrom would score just as many points, no matter what era, because he scored them classically.  Point shots and assists.  He was just SUPER good at it.  But technically speaking he didn't score in a different way than McInnis, Iafrate, etc. etc. etc. 

 

I compare the Bruins with Orr to Bill Walsh's 49ers and their "west coast offense".  They tore it up because nobody had seen it or figured it out yet.  However, eventually everybody caught up.  So now, when a team running a west coast offense puts up gaudy numbers (though still less than the 49ers), it's actually more impressive because it's not succeeding because it's new, it's succeeding because it's executed well. 


Edited by kipwinger, 25 June 2013 - 12:12 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#43 Johnz96

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:31 PM

 

I agree, he was better than any other defenseman in his era.  He was the very first "offensive defenseman".  That's the reason he scored so much...because he tried to do it.  In those days all defensemen were stay-at-home.  That's how they played the game.  Bobby revolutionized that.  HOWEVER, saying that he's the best of his age doesn't then also mean that he's the best ever.  Bobby could never do that against today's competition because everybody does it now, and therefore teams plan for it.  Lidstrom would score just as many points, no matter what era, because he scored them classically.  Point shots and assists.  He was just SUPER good at it.  But technically speaking he didn't score in a different way than McInnis, Iafrate, etc. etc. etc. 

 

I compare the Bruins with Orr to Bill Walsh's 49ers and their "west coast offense".  They tore it up because nobody had seen it or figured it out yet.  However, eventually everybody caught up.  So now, when a team running a west coast offense puts up gaudy numbers (though still less than the 49ers), it's actually more impressive because it's not succeeding because it's new, it's succeeding because it's executed well. 

I don't think that west coast offense would be anything special without Montana/Young, Rice and Craig.
Bobby Orr dominated the sport like no other athlete I have ever seen (mind you I only ever regularly watched 2 sports)



#44 GMRwings1983

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:41 PM

I don't think it matters how old you are.

 

I never saw Gretzky in his prime either, but that doesn't mean I'd rank Crosby ahead of him.  I don't believe a lot of hearsay, but from looking at Gretzky/Orr's stats, and listening to what people have to say about them from watching them play, I firmly believe they were as good as people say they were.

 

Most people have Bobby Orr ranked as one of the top 4 NHL players in history.  If Lidstrom is above him, that would mean Lidstrom is a top 4 guy.  I think that's pushing it too far for Nick.  


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#45 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:12 PM

Besides winning the James Norris Memorial Trophy eight times, Mr. Robert Gordon Orr, OC won the Hart Memorial Trophy three times in consecutive seasons. I use this as my "tipping point". I'm looking forward to the release of his autobiography this fall.

 

 

 

 

 


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#46 AtomicPunk

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

Gretzky was as great as his stats say he was. The guy got assists from the bench, was a threat every time he stepped over the boards, made players around him better, and usually far more than a PPG player. The years in the mid / late 80's when the Wings played Edmonton in the playoffs was like David and Goliath. He was very very good. That's why they have that nickname for him. The Great One.


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#47 The Axe

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:21 AM

Gretzkys number is retired LEAGUE wide. Enough said.

Orr is the best defenseman ever. In todays NHL, he plays 10 years longer because they fix his knees right and he plays with better equipment. He becomes the first 2000 point defenseman.

#48 kipwinger

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:29 PM

Gretzkys number is retired LEAGUE wide. Enough said.

Orr is the best defenseman ever. In todays NHL, he plays 10 years longer because they fix his knees right and he plays with better equipment. He becomes the first 2000 point defenseman.

 

Right or he tries his patented coast to coast b.s. and some defenseman who can actually skate blows him up.  Kronwall, Stevens, Konstantinov.  They didn't have defensemen that open ice hit like that in Orr's day.  Hence, he could skate around and make them look stupid. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#49 GMRwings1983

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:31 PM

Paul Coffey and Brian Leetch didn't seem to have problems going end to end against these big, modern day hitters.  

 

There were plenty of rugged, mean defensemen back in Orr's day.  Since Orr was smarter than anyone else in his era, he would have figured out how to adapt to today's game and today's players.  


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#50 Johnz96

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:37 PM

 

Right or he tries his patented coast to coast b.s. and some defenseman who can actually skate blows him up.  Kronwall, Stevens, Konstantinov.  They didn't have defensemen that open ice hit like that in Orr's day.  Hence, he could skate around and make them look stupid. 

This is 1 player in 1 game


Edited by Johnz96, 27 June 2013 - 02:01 PM.


#51 Dabura

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

Bobby Lidstrom.


Don't Toews me, bro!






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