Wings looking to trade before using buyouts

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

What exactly do people feel the value of Tatar + 47th overall pick is?

What would YOU expect that to get? Because I sure think it would have a ton of value.

a 30th overall pick...

[FlashyG 1,799]

What exactly do people feel the value of Tatar + 47th overall pick is?

What would YOU expect that to get? Because I sure think it would have a ton of value.

Without trying to come up with any actual names I'd assume that would get you a very good middle 6 forward or a 2nd pairing defenceman. Its not enough for a top pairing Defender or for a top line forward, that would likely cost us another good prospect like Sproul, Mrazek, Jarnkrok or Ouelette or our 1st round pick.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

a 30th overall pick...

I don't disagree with you as it is expensive to move up in the draft, but I was referring more to adding a roster player.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I don't disagree with you as it is expensive to move up in the draft, but I was referring more to adding a roster player.

A third line center/winger. Tatar has potential but he doesn't have enough experience for any other team to give us a top 6 player for him, too big of a risk

[Wingsfan72 198]

Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar? As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got? I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.

Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).

If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.

[joshy207 156]

The guys Holland seems to want to make available (Emmerton, Tootoo) won't get much in return, maybe a late-round pick, but would clear valuable roster space for guys who need to be here. Both would probably end up being extra forwards next year anyway.

As for free agents, Bryan Bickell (not Bickel... Stu is a Rangers' defenseman) has one good playoff run, that's IT. Plenty of guys have had one hot playoff and then disappeared. John Druce, Chris Kontos, Fernando Pisani. How about Johan Franzen? Do we want to risk having another guy like that on a big contract?

Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar? As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got? I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.

Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).

If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.

I want to keep him here too. I really like what he brings to the table, especially his drive. I think he's even more motivated after being sent down to GR again, despite being one of the Wings' best forwards when he was here. IMO he has more value in a Wings' uniform than in a trade.

[FlashyG 1,799]

Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar? As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got? I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.

Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).

If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.

It depends on what you want to add.

If you're just looking for depth than you can trade the "fat" but if we want a top line forward or a top pairing defenceman, its going to cost us some very good prospects going the other way.

I think Nyquist would be the more intriguing player with his AHL performance and his play in the NHL playoffs but Tatar had a strong Calder Cup run and played well in his short NHL stint...he might be a target as well.

Our Defensive prospects could be the piece that gets added to the deal to make it work, but I think most teams would want someone who has at least shown he can play in the NHL before they'd give up a top line player.

[esteef 2,679]

Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar? As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got? I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.

Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).

If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.

Thank you.

esteef

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Without trying to come up with any actual names I'd assume that would get you a very good middle 6 forward or a 2nd pairing defenceman. Its not enough for a top pairing Defender or for a top line forward, that would likely cost us another good prospect like Sproul, Mrazek, Jarnkrok or Ouelette or our 1st round pick.

I agree with you for the most part. I would hope that additional prospect would be a Ferraro or Athanasiou but that may be wishful thinking.

A third line center/winger. Tatar has potential but he doesn't have enough experience for any other team to give us a top 6 player for him, too big of a risk

I disagree especially in this offseason. Picks and young talent are at an all-time high with teams struggling to get under the cap and find solid financial footing

Am I the only one who absolutely does NOT want to trade Tatar? As in under no circumstances should Tatar be traded because he hasn't even had one full year in the NHL to show all that he's got? I don't understand why anyone would want to trade away so much homegrown potential.

Trade/buy out the "fat", pick up an FA or two who can play a nice supporting role on this team to Hank and Pav and keep our youth and let that benefit us in the future (a la Hank, Pav, etc).

If anything, Kenny can use some of his plethora of defensive prospects as trade bait.

I just don't see Tatar, Nyquist and Brunner on the roster together. Brunner's a UFA and I'd take Nyquist over Tatar.

.

[FlashyG 1,799]

How about Johan Franzen? Do we want to risk having another guy like that on a big contract?

Definitely not as far as term is concerned but if we could get another player for less than 4 million a season who puts up 50-60 pts a year and 25-30 goals I'd personally drive to the airport to pick him up.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

theres gonna be desperate teams out there looking to shed salary and alot of buyouts theres gonna be good options and zero reason why we should give up on a tatar or nyquist or any top prospect nobody is gonna get rid of a bonafide star and im over getting someone like yandle i like the 6 d unit we got now with dekeyser coming and our defensive prospects in the farm

unless its a ufa we dont touch our guys

[T.Low 1,011]

I agree; I DO NOT want to trade away Mr. Butterfield. That boy's got jump, and I luved the playoff Gordie Howe Hat Trick. Tatar brings it.

[joshy207 156]

Definitely not as far as term is concerned but if we could get another player for less than 4 million a season who puts up 50-60 pts a year and 25-30 goals I'd personally drive to the airport to pick him up.

Based on the term of the deal, I think everyone (management and fans) expected more like 35-40 goals and 75-80 points, at least for a few years. That hasn't happened, and what production has come has been feast-or-famine to the extreme. Plus, with Bickell, there's no guarantee he won't stay in the 10-15 goal, 25-35 point range. It's a total crapshoot, for sure.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I guess I just have concerns that 6 of our top 9 forwards are going to be under 6' and see Tatar as one of the few roster assets that would we would possibly trade with value.

Especially considering Holland's desire to get a little bigger.

[uk_redwing 495]

I knew Tootoo was gone. I've had that feeling for weeks and it's sad to see, but I can't help feeling after all Holland and Babs said about the importance of the role Tootoo plays we won't join the Eastern Conference without finding a suitable replacement.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with Tootoo. He takes less bad penalties than most players on our team and has reasonable production. There's still hope though, but not much.

Sad.

Edited June 25, 2013 by uk_redwing

[FlashyG 1,799]

Based on the term of the deal, I think everyone (management and fans) expected more like 35-40 goals and 75-80 points, at least for a few years. That hasn't happened, and what production has come has been feast-or-famine to the extreme. Plus, with Bickell, there's no guarantee he won't stay in the 10-15 goal, 25-35 point range. It's a total crapshoot, for sure.

I think that's true with some fans, but many fans and I think management didn't expect his numbers to improve from what he had given in the years previous to his extension.

He's always been a 25-30 goal scorer with 50-60 pts.

If they thought he was going to be a 35-40 goal scorer and a 75-80pt player they'd have paid him a lot more money, and they'd be talking about buying him out right now.

Holland thinks the idea of buying out Franzen is "crazy" so I think they are quite happy with his play.

[StormJH1 231]

I knew Tootoo was gone. I've had that feeling for weeks and it's sad to see, but I can't help feeling after all Holland and Babs said about the importance of the role Tootoo plays we won't join the Eastern Conference without finding a suitable replacement.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with Tootoo. He takes less bad penalties than most players on our team and has reasonable production. There's still hope though, but not much.

Sad.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.

I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.

But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.

I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

[wingsfan4795 552]

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.

I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.

But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.

I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

I completely agree. The only thing the east has that the west lacks is enforcers. If we don't have enforcers, its not like our other players are going to be forced to fight.

[number9 3,297]

The toughness in the East is completely overrated. People act like the east is full of goons that will crush us. There is little to no difference.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Enjoyed the nugget about the Wings trying to trade Tootoo. There are some posters here that will burn the forum down if they deal their beloved "enforcer".

It's interesting that people talked about the Wings as one of the (secondary) offenders of offering backdiving deals, yet the two suspected candidates (37 and 28) are actually guys on shorter term deals signed in the 2012 offseason. In other words, we actually did intend on honoring the Zetterberg and Franzen contracts.

However, is Khan right about this? I thought that Sammy and Bert were both on 35+ deals, and you can't buyout a 35+ deal. I must be mistaken.

Really????

[Guest Crymson]

I'm kinda hoping we can pull off a deal for Yandle finally. With us switching conferences and Phoenix in dire need of some forward depth I could see a trade being worked out.

To Phoenix:

Tatar

Eaves

Colaiacovo

2nd round pick

To Detroit:

Yandle

6th round pick

That would be a terrible trade. Yandle is above-average in the offensive zone, but he's terrible at playing defense. More, he'd be yet another left-handed shot. No thanks, especially at the cost of Tatar.

In any event, this would not be enough to acquire him from Phoenix.

[Zetts 236]

I knew Tootoo was gone. I've had that feeling for weeks and it's sad to see, but I can't help feeling after all Holland and Babs said about the importance of the role Tootoo plays we won't join the Eastern Conference without finding a suitable replacement.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with Tootoo. He takes less bad penalties than most players on our team and has reasonable production. There's still hope though, but not much.

Sad.

I also don't mind him, but he's clearly paid too much. Obviously that's not his fault, but it's a valid reason to buy him out. Paying 1.9M for someone that barely plays is a waste.

[Guest Crymson]

Maybe Abby can get 20 goals while crashing and mucking on Datsyuks line, doing a lot of the grunt work so a Clarkson-type-scoring-guy can find some space to snipe from.Yes, I'd prefer a bigger Bickel there instead of Abby, but so would every GM in the league now that he's been showcased in the Finals so chances of getting him are slim to none. If we get the right scorer on Dat's wing, then settling for Abby there could be fine while spreading cap space to other lines.

This set of forward lines can compete with anyone. We are not that far away, maybe one top acquisition is all we need.

Clarkson is not a sniper. He's an inconsistent scorer who often destroys plays by taking a shot the first chance he gets, even if it's from a horrific spot. He's sure to be overpaid by some team.

The toughness in the East is completely overrated. People act like the east is full of goons that will crush us. There is little to no difference.

Pretty much.

I completely agree. The only thing the east has that the west lacks is enforcers. If we don't have enforcers, its not like our other players are going to be forced to fight.

Of the top 20 players in fighting majors this season, nine played in the western conference, nine played in the eastern conference, and the others split their time between the two.

Based on the term of the deal, I think everyone (management and fans) expected more like 35-40 goals and 75-80 points, at least for a few years. That hasn't happened, and what production has come has been feast-or-famine to the extreme. Plus, with Bickell, there's no guarantee he won't stay in the 10-15 goal, 25-35 point range. It's a total crapshoot, for sure.

Even at that stage, no 40-goal, 80-point player was being paid only $4m on a long-term contract.

[Zetts 236]

Clarkson is not a sniper. He's an inconsistent scorer who often destroys plays by taking a shot the first chance he gets, even if it's from a horrific spot. He's sure to be overpaid by some team.

Additionally, the one season that he's really getting the attention for (2011-2012), his +/- was -8. That was 1 away from being tied for the worst on the team. This season he was -6, 2 away from the worst on the team.

And, just for fun, in 2010-2011, he was -20 (6 better than Kovalchuk's -26, but still awful).

Plus/minus isn't a great stat, but if someone consistently is towards the bottom of his team, it definitely does say something.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

One poster brings up replacing Tootoo and the East and everyone goes off the deep end.

No one is talking about reshaping the roster or our style of play. It's just that Tootoo is the most aggressive player we have and losing him would create a hole. It helps to have players like that throughout your roster and especially in the bottom 6 to wear down your opponent. We have little to none.

It's not about enforcers, it's about guys that can crash and bang and still play a normal shift without being a liability.

It's not about the East, it's about being a difficult team to play against both with and without the puck.