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Howard a top 6-8 goalie?


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#1 Dynheart

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:35 PM

There was a letter out recently about the future, prospects and such. Holland was just yappin' away. At one point he says believes Howard will be a top 6-8 goalie during his contract.

 

What do you guys think? I think he's top 8-10 right now. Do you guys think he'll hit that expectation? And also...What does that leave for Mrazek? Howard has obvious FAR exceeded expectations. We were happy at the thought of him hitting top 15. Now it's not too far fetched to think of him as a top 6-8 goalie (I remember Babcock calling him an upper echelon goalie).

 

But we, as a fan base, expect Mrazek to exceed Howard. Are we fooling ourselves? Did we get lucky with Howard? Will we kick ourselves later on by trading Howard away hoping Mrazek is the better goalie?

 

All I know is Howard far, FAR exceeded my expectations. A couple of years ago we thought top 20, and would be glad he'd fit in the top 15. He jumped passed that expectation...

 

Howard, IMO, top 8-10 now. Potential top 6-8 according to Holland. I say he hits it. Why not? But where does that leave room for Mrazek? He just come in and bump Howard down one and make him a top 7-9 goalie? Crazy stuff guys. Howard's a keeper....but Mrazek..../scream!


Edited by Dynheart, 25 June 2013 - 04:35 PM.


#2 FlashyG

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

Holland as much as said the other day that Mrazek will be in Grand Rapids until his waiver exemptions are gone. That is 3 years from now, he'd rather him playing 60 games in Grand Rapids than playing 20 in Detroit.

 

I'm not sure why you think Howard has Far exceeded expectations he was the 3rd goalie drafted during his draft year behind only Marc Andre Fleury and Corey Crawford.

 

Mrazek had 12 goalies drafted before he was selected in the 5th round.

 

If anything Mrazek is the one who has thus far exceeded expectations.



#3 swedishconnection

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:07 PM

There was a letter out recently about the future, prospects and such. Holland was just yappin' away. At one point he says believes Howard will be a top 6-8 goalie during his contract.
 
What do you guys think? I think he's top 8-10 right now. Do you guys think he'll hit that expectation? And also...What does that leave for Mrazek? Howard has obvious FAR exceeded expectations. We were happy at the thought of him hitting top 15. Now it's not too far fetched to think of him as a top 6-8 goalie (I remember Babcock calling him an upper echelon goalie).
 
But we, as a fan base, expect Mrazek to exceed Howard. Are we fooling ourselves? Did we get lucky with Howard? Will we kick ourselves later on by trading Howard away hoping Mrazek is the better goalie?
 
All I know is Howard far, FAR exceeded my expectations. A couple of years ago we thought top 20, and would be glad he'd fit in the top 15. He jumped passed that expectation...
 
Howard, IMO, top 8-10 now. Potential top 6-8 according to Holland. I say he hits it. Why not? But where does that leave room for Mrazek? He just come in and bump Howard down one and make him a top 7-9 goalie? Crazy stuff guys. Howard's a keeper....but Mrazek..../scream!


Since when does Detroit have netminding stability? This is not your father's Wings - or even your older sisters'. This is amazing: Great 'tending now - and potential for the future. Anyone who doubts, I have 2 words for you:

Manny Legacy.
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#4 Shaman

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:13 PM

Howard is not top ten, hes top 15, but he's not top 6-8 for sure.


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#5 Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:14 PM

Howard=Average



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#6 joshy207

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

Holland as much as said the other day that Mrazek will be in Grand Rapids until his waiver exemptions are gone. That is 3 years from now, he'd rather him playing 60 games in Grand Rapids than playing 20 in Detroit.

 

I agree with that for next year and probably the year after, but Mrazek will probably be NHL-ready within the next 3 years (he's probably already better than Gustavsson) and Howard can't play every game, every season.  Gustavsson can spell Howard for a game here and there next year, they'll have to find a veteran to battle with Mrazek for the backup spot the next year, but by the 15-16 season, I expect him to be in Detroit full-time and the slow transition from Howard to Mrazek will begin.  Also, if at any time during the next couple years, Howard goes down with an injury (knock on wood!!!), Mrazek should be called up to play regularly.



#7 FlashyG

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:27 PM

Howard is not top ten, hes top 15, but he's not top 6-8 for sure.

 

I can only think of a handful who are definitely ahead of him. I think he's solidly among a group of goalies who could be ranked anywhere from 5 - 15.

 

Personally I'd rank him around 9th or 10th.



#8 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

 

I can only think of a handful who are definitely ahead of him. I think he's solidly among a group of goalies who could be ranked anywhere from 5 - 15.

 

Personally I'd rank him around 9th or 10th.

 

I agree. Stats look pretty close for goalies in the top 15, and goalies move up and down so much season to season. Howard's been pretty consistent with his production while playing a high volume of games.


Edited by dropkickshanahans, 25 June 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#9 Shaman

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:42 PM

14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.


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#10 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:45 PM

i think theres a reason howard put some kind of out clause in his contract in about 2 years i believe

 

mrazek's coming hard for that #1 and only time will tell but i think mrazek will be our future #1



#11 Crymson

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.


Howard was tenth in sv%--ninth if LaBarbera (only 15 games) isn't counted--and ninth in GAA this season, and tenth and fifteenth, respectively, the season before. Presumably you are including goalies who played very few games.

Edited by Crymson, 25 June 2013 - 06:55 PM.


#12 Crymson

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:57 PM

Since when does Detroit have netminding stability? This is not your father's Wings - or even your older sisters'. This is amazing: Great 'tending now - and potential for the future. Anyone who doubts, I have 2 words for you:

Manny Legacy.


Who is Manny Legacy? :P

#13 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:07 PM

14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.

 

I came up with 

 

2013: 9th SV% (.923) 8th GAA (2.13)

2011-2012: t10th SV% (.920) 6th GAA (2.12)

2010-2011: 31st SV% (.908) 34st GAA (2.79)

 

Did you include goalies that played very few games?



#14 Dynheart

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

Well...Before he came into the league he was pegged as back up level....maybe he'll reach top 20. The expectations for this kid on HFboards AND here were not very high. I remember it vividly!

 

Now? NHL.com has had articles about him being a top 8 goalie. HFboards talks about him being a top 10 goalie. The tone about him has totally changed in a half of a season. I have no doubts he'll put up another .920+ 2.20 or less campaign. For a guy average 50+ games? That's has to be better than top 15.

 

I mean...Anderson is being put in the top 5 now...and he's putting up similar numbers with 20 games here. 17 games there. Howard and Anderson have about the same about of games played...and Anderson has 8 seasons on him. But he's top 5. /boggle.

 

How we fans come up with goalie rankings is beyond me. *sigh*


Edited by Dynheart, 25 June 2013 - 07:25 PM.


#15 Dynheart

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:37 PM

 

I came up with 

 

2013: 9th SV% (.923) 8th GAA (2.13)

2011-2012: t10th SV% (.920) 6th GAA (2.12)

2010-2011: 31st SV% (.908) 34st GAA (2.79)

 

Did you include goalies that played very few games?

 

I notice people do this when arguing against any goalie. Then you find out that there's back up ahead with 2 or 3 games played. You have to do it with comparable games.

 

Outside his sophomore year, isn't Howard always in the top 10 with his stats? Not to mention he's fighting it out with Quick or Rinne for Workhorse of the year. That's not easy to do I would think. I would place him top 8-10 with those facts alone.


Edited by Dynheart, 25 June 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#16 Dimaline312000

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:50 PM

I'd say Howard is a top 10-15 but not exactaly sure where. He has been fantastic for the Wings and I expect him to do the same and even get better. If he's not in the top 10 now and the pace he's going he will be by the end of next season.



#17 The Axe

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

Since when does Detroit have netminding stability? This is not your father's Wings - or even your older sisters'. This is amazing: Great 'tending now - and potential for the future. Anyone who doubts, I have 2 words for you:

Manny Legacy.


I lived thru the Cujo era...sigh...

#18 Dynheart

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:18 PM

I lived thru the Cujo era...sigh...

 

Same. I remember the dead wing era too. sigh sigh... lol

 

Howard and Mrazek. Can't really get much better than that. It would be nitpicking at that point. Although...Mrazek hasn't really been tested at the NHL level yet. But he's pretty much a good to go.



#19 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:20 PM

 

I notice people do this when arguing against any goalie. Then you find out that there's back up ahead with 2 or 3 games played. You have to do it with comparable games.

 

Outside his sophomore year, isn't Howard always in the top 10 with his stats? Not to mention he's fighting it out with Quick or Rinne for Workhorse of the year. That's not easy to do I would think. I would place him top 8-10 with those facts alone.

 

Yup. His first full season in 09-10 his GAA was 5th best (2.26) and SV% was t4th (.924). So aside from his sophomore slump, he's always been in the top 10 if we measure only goalies that play a significant chunk of games.



#20 Crymson

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

Howard is, in sum, an excellent goalie.







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