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Dynheart

Howard a top 6-8 goalie?

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There was a letter out recently about the future, prospects and such. Holland was just yappin' away. At one point he says believes Howard will be a top 6-8 goalie during his contract.

What do you guys think? I think he's top 8-10 right now. Do you guys think he'll hit that expectation? And also...What does that leave for Mrazek? Howard has obvious FAR exceeded expectations. We were happy at the thought of him hitting top 15. Now it's not too far fetched to think of him as a top 6-8 goalie (I remember Babcock calling him an upper echelon goalie).

But we, as a fan base, expect Mrazek to exceed Howard. Are we fooling ourselves? Did we get lucky with Howard? Will we kick ourselves later on by trading Howard away hoping Mrazek is the better goalie?

All I know is Howard far, FAR exceeded my expectations. A couple of years ago we thought top 20, and would be glad he'd fit in the top 15. He jumped passed that expectation...

Howard, IMO, top 8-10 now. Potential top 6-8 according to Holland. I say he hits it. Why not? But where does that leave room for Mrazek? He just come in and bump Howard down one and make him a top 7-9 goalie? Crazy stuff guys. Howard's a keeper....but Mrazek..../scream!

Edited by Dynheart
swedishconnection likes this

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Holland as much as said the other day that Mrazek will be in Grand Rapids until his waiver exemptions are gone. That is 3 years from now, he'd rather him playing 60 games in Grand Rapids than playing 20 in Detroit.

I'm not sure why you think Howard has Far exceeded expectations he was the 3rd goalie drafted during his draft year behind only Marc Andre Fleury and Corey Crawford.

Mrazek had 12 goalies drafted before he was selected in the 5th round.

If anything Mrazek is the one who has thus far exceeded expectations.

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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There was a letter out recently about the future, prospects and such. Holland was just yappin' away. At one point he says believes Howard will be a top 6-8 goalie during his contract.

What do you guys think? I think he's top 8-10 right now. Do you guys think he'll hit that expectation? And also...What does that leave for Mrazek? Howard has obvious FAR exceeded expectations. We were happy at the thought of him hitting top 15. Now it's not too far fetched to think of him as a top 6-8 goalie (I remember Babcock calling him an upper echelon goalie).

But we, as a fan base, expect Mrazek to exceed Howard. Are we fooling ourselves? Did we get lucky with Howard? Will we kick ourselves later on by trading Howard away hoping Mrazek is the better goalie?

All I know is Howard far, FAR exceeded my expectations. A couple of years ago we thought top 20, and would be glad he'd fit in the top 15. He jumped passed that expectation...

Howard, IMO, top 8-10 now. Potential top 6-8 according to Holland. I say he hits it. Why not? But where does that leave room for Mrazek? He just come in and bump Howard down one and make him a top 7-9 goalie? Crazy stuff guys. Howard's a keeper....but Mrazek..../scream!

Since when does Detroit have netminding stability? This is not your father's Wings - or even your older sisters'. This is amazing: Great 'tending now - and potential for the future. Anyone who doubts, I have 2 words for you:

Manny Legacy.

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Holland as much as said the other day that Mrazek will be in Grand Rapids until his waiver exemptions are gone. That is 3 years from now, he'd rather him playing 60 games in Grand Rapids than playing 20 in Detroit.

I agree with that for next year and probably the year after, but Mrazek will probably be NHL-ready within the next 3 years (he's probably already better than Gustavsson) and Howard can't play every game, every season. Gustavsson can spell Howard for a game here and there next year, they'll have to find a veteran to battle with Mrazek for the backup spot the next year, but by the 15-16 season, I expect him to be in Detroit full-time and the slow transition from Howard to Mrazek will begin. Also, if at any time during the next couple years, Howard goes down with an injury (knock on wood!!!), Mrazek should be called up to play regularly.

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Howard is not top ten, hes top 15, but he's not top 6-8 for sure.

I can only think of a handful who are definitely ahead of him. I think he's solidly among a group of goalies who could be ranked anywhere from 5 - 15.

Personally I'd rank him around 9th or 10th.

dropkickshanahans likes this

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I can only think of a handful who are definitely ahead of him. I think he's solidly among a group of goalies who could be ranked anywhere from 5 - 15.

Personally I'd rank him around 9th or 10th.

I agree. Stats look pretty close for goalies in the top 15, and goalies move up and down so much season to season. Howard's been pretty consistent with his production while playing a high volume of games.

Edited by dropkickshanahans

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14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.

nyqvististhefuture likes this

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i think theres a reason howard put some kind of out clause in his contract in about 2 years i believe

mrazek's coming hard for that #1 and only time will tell but i think mrazek will be our future #1

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.

Howard was tenth in sv%--ninth if LaBarbera (only 15 games) isn't counted--and ninth in GAA this season, and tenth and fifteenth, respectively, the season before. Presumably you are including goalies who played very few games.

Edited by Crymson
wingsfan4795 likes this

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Since when does Detroit have netminding stability? This is not your father's Wings - or even your older sisters'. This is amazing: Great 'tending now - and potential for the future. Anyone who doubts, I have 2 words for you:

Manny Legacy.

Who is Manny Legacy? :P

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14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.

I came up with

2013: 9th SV% (.923) 8th GAA (2.13)

2011-2012: t10th SV% (.920) 6th GAA (2.12)

2010-2011: 31st SV% (.908) 34st GAA (2.79)

Did you include goalies that played very few games?

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Well...Before he came into the league he was pegged as back up level....maybe he'll reach top 20. The expectations for this kid on HFboards AND here were not very high. I remember it vividly!

Now? NHL.com has had articles about him being a top 8 goalie. HFboards talks about him being a top 10 goalie. The tone about him has totally changed in a half of a season. I have no doubts he'll put up another .920+ 2.20 or less campaign. For a guy average 50+ games? That's has to be better than top 15.

I mean...Anderson is being put in the top 5 now...and he's putting up similar numbers with 20 games here. 17 games there. Howard and Anderson have about the same about of games played...and Anderson has 8 seasons on him. But he's top 5. /boggle.

How we fans come up with goalie rankings is beyond me. *sigh*

Edited by Dynheart

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I came up with

2013: 9th SV% (.923) 8th GAA (2.13)

2011-2012: t10th SV% (.920) 6th GAA (2.12)

2010-2011: 31st SV% (.908) 34st GAA (2.79)

Did you include goalies that played very few games?

I notice people do this when arguing against any goalie. Then you find out that there's back up ahead with 2 or 3 games played. You have to do it with comparable games.

Outside his sophomore year, isn't Howard always in the top 10 with his stats? Not to mention he's fighting it out with Quick or Rinne for Workhorse of the year. That's not easy to do I would think. I would place him top 8-10 with those facts alone.

Edited by Dynheart

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I'd say Howard is a top 10-15 but not exactaly sure where. He has been fantastic for the Wings and I expect him to do the same and even get better. If he's not in the top 10 now and the pace he's going he will be by the end of next season.

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Since when does Detroit have netminding stability? This is not your father's Wings - or even your older sisters'. This is amazing: Great 'tending now - and potential for the future. Anyone who doubts, I have 2 words for you:

Manny Legacy.

I lived thru the Cujo era...sigh...

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I lived thru the Cujo era...sigh...

Same. I remember the dead wing era too. sigh sigh... lol

Howard and Mrazek. Can't really get much better than that. It would be nitpicking at that point. Although...Mrazek hasn't really been tested at the NHL level yet. But he's pretty much a good to go.

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I notice people do this when arguing against any goalie. Then you find out that there's back up ahead with 2 or 3 games played. You have to do it with comparable games.

Outside his sophomore year, isn't Howard always in the top 10 with his stats? Not to mention he's fighting it out with Quick or Rinne for Workhorse of the year. That's not easy to do I would think. I would place him top 8-10 with those facts alone.

Yup. His first full season in 09-10 his GAA was 5th best (2.26) and SV% was t4th (.924). So aside from his sophomore slump, he's always been in the top 10 if we measure only goalies that play a significant chunk of games.

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I also think he's one of the hardest working goalies in the league. He never gives up on games when he has a bad start like some other goalies (Luongo most natably)

He seems to get into a zone where he refuses to let anything in . He makes every save into a statement save. It was awesome seeing him shut down Corey Perry. I'm pretty sure he purposely picked Perry out to make a statement

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14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.

Among Starting goalies he's

7th in GAA.

9th in Sv%

8th in wins

The year before he was

6th in wins

6th in GAA

8th in Sv%

Looking at those #'s its hard not to consider him top 10. I consider Elite to be top 5, so I'd agree he's not elite, but he's not too far off that.

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Among Starting goalies he's

7th in GAA.

9th in Sv%

8th in wins

The year before he was

6th in wins

6th in GAA

8th in Sv%

Looking at those #'s its hard not to consider him top 10. I consider Elite to be top 5, so I'd agree he's not elite, but he's not too far off that.

I consider elite to be top 2-3 goalies in the league, and usually not flash in the pans either, long term success goes into being elite or else Eliot/Mason/Nemi/etc would be 'elite' because they had one or two good season then faded.

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Among Starting goalies he's

7th in GAA.

9th in Sv%

8th in wins

The year before he was

6th in wins

6th in GAA

8th in Sv%

Looking at those #'s its hard not to consider him top 10. I consider Elite to be top 5, so I'd agree he's not elite, but he's not too far off that.

Goalie stats are affected by the team in front of them. A goalie that plays on a good defensive team would have better stats with them than he would on a team that isn't as good defensively.

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