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Howard a top 6-8 goalie?


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#21 Son of a Wing

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:26 PM

I lived thru the Cujo era...sigh...

 

I somehow doubt that... Well maybe as a toddler lol


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#22 wingsfan4795

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:29 PM

I also think he's one of the hardest working goalies in the league. He never gives up on games when he has a bad start like some other goalies (Luongo most natably)
He seems to get into a zone where he refuses to let anything in . He makes every save into a statement save. It was awesome seeing him shut down Corey Perry. I'm pretty sure he purposely picked Perry out to make a statement

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#23 FlashyG

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:50 PM

14th in GAA and 13th in Sv% last season, 15th in GAA and 22nd in Sv% in 2011-2012 worse in 2010-2011. He's better than replacement level, but hes not elite.

Among Starting goalies he's

 

7th in GAA.

9th in Sv%

8th in wins

 

The year before he was

 

6th in wins

6th in GAA

8th in Sv%

 

Looking at those #'s its hard not to consider him top 10. I consider Elite to be top 5, so I'd agree he's not elite, but he's not too far off that.



#24 Shaman

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:04 PM

Among Starting goalies he's

 

7th in GAA.

9th in Sv%

8th in wins

 

The year before he was

 

6th in wins

6th in GAA

8th in Sv%

 

Looking at those #'s its hard not to consider him top 10. I consider Elite to be top 5, so I'd agree he's not elite, but he's not too far off that.

I consider elite to be top 2-3 goalies in the league, and usually not flash in the pans either, long term success goes into being elite or else Eliot/Mason/Nemi/etc would be 'elite' because they had one or two good season then faded.


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#25 Johnz96

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

Among Starting goalies he's

 

7th in GAA.

9th in Sv%

8th in wins

 

The year before he was

 

6th in wins

6th in GAA

8th in Sv%

 

Looking at those #'s its hard not to consider him top 10. I consider Elite to be top 5, so I'd agree he's not elite, but he's not too far off that.

Goalie stats are affected by the team in front of them. A goalie that plays on a good defensive team would have better stats with them than he would on a team that isn't as good defensively.



#26 Son of a Wing

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

Elite: Lundqvist, Rinne and possibly now Quick.

 

Then there's everyone else...


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#27 RedWingCraig

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

I lived thru the Cujo era...sigh...

Try the Cheveldae era



#28 vladdy16

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:31 PM

 

Same. I remember the dead wing era too. sigh sigh... lol

 

Howard and Mrazek. Can't really get much better than that. It would be nitpicking at that point. Although...Mrazek hasn't really been tested at the NHL level yet. But he's pretty much a good to go.

Cujo signed in 2002; hardly trying times for Wings fans.

 

That being said, let's please not turn this into a goalie wars thread.  This is a very interesting and worthy topic; I'd hate to see the thread get pulled for a few people who want to dredge up old times and beat them to death yet again.


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#29 achildr1

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:42 PM

Howard is not top ten, hes top 15, but he's not top 6-8 for sure.


Name me ten better goalies who've played more than a year and a half. Go....

Try the Cheveldae era


Trump.

#30 Dynheart

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

I consider elite to be top 2-3 goalies in the league, and usually not flash in the pans either, long term success goes into being elite or else Eliot/Mason/Nemi/etc would be 'elite' because they had one or two good season then faded.

I get what you are saying.

 

Howard is a consistent goalie in my opinion. 4 seasons. 3 out of the 4 he's been in the top 10, or higher, in every stat....while being a workhorse. Sophomore slump year. Does anyone remember that year? He was a sub .900/ 3.00+ goalie all year...signs the contract...Bam! He's rookie Howard for the rest of the season (with a little bit better rebound control). Goes into the playoffs and plays well. He salvaged that year because he played like the Jimmy we know today the last quarter of the season (there abouts).

 

Makes you wonder if that was his issue all year: "Am i going to get signed? Am I trade bait?" Sign him earlier and I wonder if that second season wouldn't look so bad. But that's just an observation of mine, And something that I cannot ever prove, or we'll ever know. It's written in history now.

 

My point with that is, is he was more than capable that year to play like his first season...his third season and 4th season, but the contract year (and Holland holding out all season) messed with his head. When he got signed...he played like Jimmy Howard (like a top 10 goalie). No wonder he was making a big deal about it this year; not wanting it to get to his head.

 

It's a theory of mine...but look at the stats. It all fits.

 

But back to the thread at hand. He's been getting better every year. I think he peaks in about 2 more years and holds it till about 35.Typical goalie. So 6-8 isn't for fetched. Realistically? He'' probably top out at 8.


Edited by Dynheart, 25 June 2013 - 09:55 PM.


#31 RedWingCraig

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:54 PM

I think Howard is going to keep getting better and better especially if we continue to upgrade and get rid of some dead weight



#32 The Axe

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:02 PM

I like Howard

#33 Richdg

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:51 PM

Are we debating Howard again? You know the guy with a BETTER career save % than Brodeur, that Howard!!!!!!!!!



#34 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

I think this season will be Howards best season and I think he will get Vezina talk. Last season he was getting plenty of Vezina talk until he got injured and that knocked him off his game. This season he started out badly but I blame that on not playing a game for 9 months. In this shortened off season I think Howard will be among the best in the NHL. I dont think he will dominate one stat but overall I think he will be one of the best.



#35 thegerkin

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

Try the Cheveldae era

 

I was JUST going to add Tim Cheveldae-on (vs Kevin Chevelday-off) and Norm "Sure As Hell Ain't No" Maracle :D



#36 martinezsvsu

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:48 PM

hes a top 10 goalie according to my vision test



#37 frankgrimes

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:30 AM

Lundquist, Miller, Rask, Rinne, Thomas (if he plays again), Quick, Ward, Andersson are all clearly bettere I think he is around 12 - 15 which is average - good but not elite.


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#38 Crymson

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:12 AM

Lundquist, Miller, Rask, Rinne, Thomas (if he plays again), Quick, Ward, Andersson are all clearly bettere I think he is around 12 - 15 which is average - good but not elite.

 

Lundquist, Rinne, Quick, and Rask, sure. Anderson does not play enough to make his worth clear, and he has some bad games. Ward is good but not elite. Thomas has not played in over a year. Miller has been in decline for several seasons now. He is no longer 2010 Olympics Miller or 2010 Vezina Miller, and he has not been for some time.

 

I'd place Lundquist, Rinne, Quick, and Rask definitively ahead of Howard. With the rest of the very good goaltenders, it's a toss-up.



#39 miksteri

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:22 AM

Id put Niemi ahead of Howard too...



#40 wingsfan4795

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:04 AM

Id put Niemi ahead of Howard too...

I hope that was a joke... The guy just played his first good year of his career

Good rule of thumb is always take an octopus everywhere. Better to have one and not need it than find yourself thinking, "Damn, I wish I had that octopus".

 

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