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17yr old hockey player charged for on-ice assault.


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#21 Ally

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:41 AM

This was a garbage fight but in my opinion the refs are the biggest issue. No 17 year old kid with that much adrenaline is counting how many punches he's thrown or looking to see if the other kid is trying to hit back. He's landing as many as he can and the refs job is to protect them and they failed.
All I'm saying is that if this kid gets convicted then you've set a precedent and there's nothing to stop people from pressing charges every time they lose a fight or are the victim of anything on the ice where there was a clear intent to injure.

 
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#22 derblaueClaus

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:10 AM

It doesn't depend on what the ref did or didn't. I'm preparing for my final law-exams in Germany and so I will try a systematical approach. Looking into German law and decisions it would depend very much if this would be seen as a normal part of the game or normal suspendable behaviour  (= no assault) or as way over the top ( =assault). Since laws and judges are different everywhere in the world I don't know how it would be decided in Canada but the solution above from the Bundesgerichtshof ( Germanys highest court) seems very reasonable. 

Question is : Is this way over the top or not ? If we would watch a NHL-play here this would be propably a 5 Minute Major, maybe a game-misconduct. But it could be seen as part of the game. (Might be not if a suspension is called.) This is not possible when you take a look at the junior-leagues where the rules against violence are much stricter and the players need more protection. So in this case : He should be charged for assault in my opinion.


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#23 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:36 AM

He has only himself to blame. No matter what you think belongs on the ice or not, it was no accident when he snowed the goalie.
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#24 raidedredwing2

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:01 AM

He should know better when it comes to spraying to goalie. The refs should have been on top of that sooner. They took there time breaking that up, shouldn't the refs be on top of that; especially at this level of hockey? There is a lot to view in this video. Motivation of each player, refs paying attention, goalies reaction.
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#25 rrasco

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:21 AM

He may have gone overboard, but where do you draw the line?  Do we start pressing charges for people that were boarded, blindsided, etc?  There are tons of non-hockey plays that could be thrown into this discussion.  Slippery slope it is.


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#26 PavelDatsyukOD13

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:57 AM

Hey everyone. Long time reader, first time poster. I am from Brantford Ontario, and would agree that we Canadians do go to America with the "we are the s***" attitude in hockey much like MOST (not all) Americans do with any other sport tht they whoop our red and white behinds in. However that's not why I posted. I actually personally know number 13 (the accused). His names Ryan and to be honest, he's a real dumba**. I worked with him at McDonald's and its quite pathetic how someone who is literally the biggest chicken s*** (ryan is a huge *****) can get so tough when he gets another players bucket off first. Oh and another thing, I don't hate Ryan. He's just a goof sometimes but outside of hockey he's harmless. And another thing, I follow him on twitter and he was literally bragging about how he made national news for beating this kid. Tweets: @_Ryan_MacDonald: Well i made the front page .....#Awhf***. @_Ryan_MacDonald: Everyone watch coaches corner tonight i might be on it #HAHAHA #hockeyfight #5monthslater. @_Ryan_MacDonald: Im in the news , im kind of a big deal #LOL #5monthslater. You guys can see my point. Do I believe he should be charged. Ya cause he's an idiot and it will teach him something however normally no I believe criminal charges should be left out of the game. He didn't steal the kids wallet after, the other kid AND his parents knew this was a risk the first day they put him in hockey. One word for the Woodstock kid, turtle.

#27 Rivalred

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:06 AM

^^^^^^

If those tweets do belong to the minor that is being investigated, it is going to harm him more than alleviate any pressure. I do not think this child understands the repercussions if he is charged.

Edited by Rivalred, 27 June 2013 - 10:07 AM.

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#28 PavelDatsyukOD13

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:11 AM

Ya rivalred I was just thinking that as well, and they are his tweets. Him and I are on a talking basis like if we saw eachother we would say hi but not much more. I was gonna tell him he should remove them but it's his life so if he wants to screw it over hockey by showing no remorse that's his call

#29 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:31 AM

He has only himself to blame. No matter what you think belongs on the ice or not, it was no accident when he snowed the goalie.

 

Nobody is saying the kid was blameless...he deserved a 2 minutes unsportsmanlike penalty not a broken nose and a concussion. If that is the penalty for snowing a goalie, what is the penalty for bumping him? Broken legs and a Decapitation by skate blade?  

 

He absolutely has someone to blame...the guy who brutally assaulted him.

 

This isn't really a slippery slope argument either. He's not the first minor hockey player to be charged with assault and won't be the last.

 

Its not like its a professional hockey league where fighting is part of the game either, fighting is banned at that level and players don't play with an expectation of having to drop the gloves.



#30 Mitchmac33

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:54 AM

 

Nobody is saying the kid was blameless...he deserved a 2 minutes unsportsmanlike penalty not a broken nose and a concussion. If that is the penalty for snowing a goalie, what is the penalty for bumping him? Broken legs and a Decapitation by skate blade?  

 

He absolutely has someone to blame...the guy who brutally assaulted him.

 

This isn't really a slippery slope argument either. He's not the first minor hockey player to be charged with assault and won't be the last.

 

Its not like its a professional hockey league where fighting is part of the game either, fighting is banned at that level and players don't play with an expectation of having to drop the gloves.

No way, I remember playin Midgets and every tryout there was at least one fight.  Every game had someone trying to fight someone else, not that it always happened, but it happened.  These kids know fighting happens at their level and if they don't expect after doing something like that they are dumb.  Like I said, I don't condone the whole of what happened, but the kid definitely doesn't deserve to have charges pressed.



 

I agree pressing charges for a hockey fight is a slippery sloap. But this wasnt a hockey fight. A hockey fight is two guys willingly squaring off and going at it and stopping if one is defenseless. This was one kid grabbing another kid off the ice who had no intention of fighting and just laying into him with sucker punches like a punk. The kid goes down and the punk continues to lay punches into him. That is not a fight. Its one kid throwing a hissy fit and assaulting another. So what that the kid sprayed the goalie. The goalie isnt going to die. It barely effects a goalie. Laying into a kid when hes not looking and while hes on the ice can cause serious harm though. There is to much of this junk in youth hockey. Its going to take a couple punks getting charged to stop it. I dont like the idea of it but if it cleans up youth hockey then Im all for it.



 

Sucker punching someone and then continuing while they are down and defenseless is the definition of cowardly.

 

If you are gonna follow unwritten rules, then spraying the goalie is a no no too.  I didn't realize in Flashy's first response to me that he had said that kids had already been kicked out for trying to start fights.  I think that makes spraying the goalie even more dumb.  You know the game is being played like that, why go and antagonize by doing something like that. Pure stupidity. 



#31 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:11 PM

No way, I remember playin Midgets and every tryout there was at least one fight.  Every game had someone trying to fight someone else, not that it always happened, but it happened.  These kids know fighting happens at their level and if they don't expect after doing something like that they are dumb.  Like I said, I don't condone the whole of what happened, but the kid definitely doesn't deserve to have charges pressed.



 

If you are gonna follow unwritten rules, then spraying the goalie is a no no too.  I didn't realize in Flashy's first response to me that he had said that kids had already been kicked out for trying to start fights.  I think that makes spraying the goalie even more dumb.  You know the game is being played like that, why go and antagonize by doing something like that. Pure stupidity. 

 

Fights happen yes, but you get suspended 2 games for it as a first offence and 4 games for your second fight. The penalties keep escalating everytime you drop your gloves.

 

Marty McSorley got charged for swinging his stick at Brashear's head, this isn't all that different, at least McSorley didn't throw a bunch of punches too, after he clubbed him.

 

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up the goalie snowing as if it somehow mitigates the assault. It's possibly the most minor infraction in the sport, if the accepted response to snowing a goalie is crosschecking a guy to his head then pummeling him while he's down, then what is the appropriate response when someone runs your goalie?

 

That is the slippery slope here, not the minor charges the Brantford player correctly received. He'll have to do a little community service and he'll face a stiffer punishment the next time he loses his mind and attacks someone, its not like he's facing jailtime.



#32 sleepwalker

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:35 PM

I agree with pretty much everyone else.  The kid that snowed the goalie started it.  The other kid took it too far.  Pressing charges over this is ridiculous.



#33 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:17 PM

 

Fights happen yes, but you get suspended 2 games for it as a first offence and 4 games for your second fight. The penalties keep escalating everytime you drop your gloves.

I think this is the main point of the situation. If fighting has a set penalty in the league, than it may be considered part of the game at this level in this league. Since this league does not consider fighting a match penalty (indefinite suspension pending league review), it would be difficult to argue that a fight would be outside of the expected circumstances in the league. However, you could argue the altercation was not a fight by the definition in the rule book.



#34 ufcredwingfan

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

I've read through the comments and looking back some of you are hypocrites, See this link.http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aINYQ4zYNzI

 

I remember some of you happy for the beating McCarty put on Lemieux. Punching him while he was turtled up on the ice and the knees to the face while on the boards."O but that was different" shut it down it's called pay back you don't spray! How was that "ok" but this was not acceptable.?

 

 

Here's a youtube quote 0U8123MTA3 1 week ago

"If one sprays a goalie in Canada, the helmet of that one is pulled off and sprayed with fists."

The other player was not seriously injured so get over if these guys got over it so should you.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=paXJfrjFE9k



#35 dirtydangles

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:26 PM

I've read through the comments and looking back some of you are hypocrites, See this link.http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aINYQ4zYNzI

 

I remember some of you happy for the beating McCarty put on Lemieux. Punching him while he was turtled up on the ice and the knees to the face while on the boards."O but that was different" shut it down it's called pay back you don't spray! How was that "ok" but this was not acceptable.?

 

 

Here's a youtube quote 0U8123MTA3 1 week ago

"If one sprays a goalie in Canada, the helmet of that one is pulled off and sprayed with fists."

The other player was not seriously injured so get over if these guys got over it so should you.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=paXJfrjFE9k

What Lemieux did was far worse than spraying the goalie. But I agree - we are talking about degrees to which people deserve things and that is a tough thing to do. You can't alter the degree to which someone is charged criminally - they either are or they aren't and that is the issue. 


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#36 derblaueClaus

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

I've read through the comments and looking back some of you are hypocrites, See this link.http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aINYQ4zYNzI

 

I remember some of you happy for the beating McCarty put on Lemieux. Punching him while he was turtled up on the ice and the knees to the face while on the boards."O but that was different" shut it down it's called pay back you don't spray! How was that "ok" but this was not acceptable.?

Simply because we are not talking about NHL-Level here. This is a Minor league with young players who need more protection than the average NHL-Player who makes his money with the sport and actually know what might happen if he sprays. If this were common in this minor-leagues too I would agree but I don't think that this is the case. Nobody says that any action against a spraying player should be charged but in this league the reaction of the offender seemed way to hard. It even might be on NHL-Level. Therefore the other player could not anticipate what his spraying would lead to and beacuse of that the offender should be charged.


Edited by derblaueClaus, 27 June 2013 - 01:34 PM.

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#37 Crymson

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:38 PM

I've read through the comments and looking back some of you are hypocrites, See this link.http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aINYQ4zYNzI

 

I remember some of you happy for the beating McCarty put on Lemieux. Punching him while he was turtled up on the ice and the knees to the face while on the boards."O but that was different" shut it down it's called pay back you don't spray! How was that "ok" but this was not acceptable.?

 

If you think that snowing a goalie is equivalent to breaking a player's face by way of an absolutely reckless hit, then I seriously question your moral system.



#38 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:08 PM

I think this is the main point of the situation. If fighting has a set penalty in the league, than it may be considered part of the game at this level in this league. Since this league does not consider fighting a match penalty (indefinite suspension pending league review), it would be difficult to argue that a fight would be outside of the expected circumstances in the league. However, you could argue the altercation was not a fight by the definition in the rule book.

 

Simply put... in that league if you fight...you no longer play in the game (or the next 2).

 

I think from that its pretty clear...Fighting is not part of their game

 

If it was you'd just receive a 5 minute penalty. You actually do receive a match penalty for fighting, they've just removed the league review and instituted a set # of games you miss for doing it. If you continue to break the rule, you're banned from the league.

 

I know several players I played with who suffered this fate for repeated fighting.


I've read through the comments and looking back some of you are hypocrites, See this link.http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aINYQ4zYNzI

 

I remember some of you happy for the beating McCarty put on Lemieux. Punching him while he was turtled up on the ice and the knees to the face while on the boards."O but that was different" shut it down it's called pay back you don't spray! How was that "ok" but this was not acceptable.?

 

 

Here's a youtube quote 0U8123MTA3 1 week ago

"If one sprays a goalie in Canada, the helmet of that one is pulled off and sprayed with fists."

The other player was not seriously injured so get over if these guys got over it so should you.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=paXJfrjFE9k

 

Well I stand corrected... if a random Youtube commenter has ruled that it was an appropriate response then how can there be any further debate.



#39 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:30 PM

 

Simply put... in that league if you fight...you no longer play in the game (or the next 2).

 

I think from that its pretty clear...Fighting is not part of their game

 

If it was you'd just receive a 5 minute penalty. You actually do receive a match penalty for fighting, they've just removed the league review and instituted a set # of games you miss for doing it. If you continue to break the rule, you're banned from the league.

 

I know several players I played with who suffered this fate for repeated fighting.

Fighting is penalized by set rules in that league through escalating suspensions. Therefore, the league anticipates that fighting will occur in the league, despite the harsh penalties, and that a standard penalty is adequate. In contrast, match penalties are for serious incidents that cannot, or should not, be subject to standardized penalization by the league. You could argue this play should have been a match penalty, and that would be a different situation.



#40 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:48 PM

Just because they anticipate it happening and have set rules and suspensions to deal with it doesn't mean its part of the game.

 

Its something that happens, that they are actively trying to stop. 

 

Fighting is banned in all minor hockey, its not something players at that level should have to worry about.

 

Technically speaking this should have been ruled a 1 person fight, which carries a far longer suspension.







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