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17yr old hockey player charged for on-ice assault.


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#41 ufcredwingfan

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:52 PM

 

If you think that snowing a goalie is equivalent to breaking a player's face by way of an absolutely reckless hit, then I seriously question your moral system

 

 

 

I never said or implied it was equivalent! I was using that fight as an example of how people are being hypocrites on here. Both where reckless and crossed the line. But since Draper was injured it was accepted that after Mac sucker punched him, dazed him, fell on the ice and kept raining blows and some knees to the face. No One is calling for McCarty to serve jail time, knees to the face aren't part of the game. Please tell me other than a broken nose & concussion the damage that was done to young man? O btw he's 17 almost an adult.

 

Like someone else said you don't do that and expect nothing will happen to you. Yes it crossed the line but charges wow.

 

The linesmen are partly to blame for watching and not stopping that young man from raining blows down on the other as he was stunned from a crosscheck to the head. You could say his teammates could have helped him but no #3 and #5 didn't stop it.

 

How about what Bert did that crossed the line. Why wasn't he charged? What Bert did was far worse than this! I could go on and on about incidents that happened and not charged with a crime.

 

The real issue is how does one combat this so its not an issue?



#42 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:16 PM

I think if anything describes the situation or has a close relation it's this and what Burke talks about...

 

 

 

Now obviously this situation had a much different background and was based more on what Ulf did in the past and his gutless reputation but it has many similarities. Not saying this kid is Ulf. That would be beyond stupid. More so just alluding to the belief that a pest "will see his day".

 

Many people condemned Domi for this while many said Ulf "had it coming". Much like most people say the same about Matt Cooke. Be a pest and people will target you. Whether it's right or wrong.


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#43 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

Nobody is saying the kid was blameless...he deserved a 2 minutes unsportsmanlike penalty not a broken nose and a concussion. If that is the penalty for snowing a goalie, what is the penalty for bumping him? Broken legs and a Decapitation by skate blade?  
 
He absolutely has someone to blame...the guy who brutally assaulted him.
 
This isn't really a slippery slope argument either. He's not the first minor hockey player to be charged with assault and won't be the last.
 
Its not like its a professional hockey league where fighting is part of the game either, fighting is banned at that level and players don't play with an expectation of having to drop the gloves.

You play with fire you are going to get burnt. He knew exactly what he was doing and he paid the price. The league will deal with his aggressor and that should be that in my opinion.
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#44 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:37 PM

Just because they anticipate it happening and have set rules and suspensions to deal with it doesn't mean its part of the game.

 

Its something that happens, that they are actively trying to stop. 

 

Fighting is banned in all minor hockey, its not something players at that level should have to worry about.

 

Technically speaking this should have been ruled a 1 person fight, which carries a far longer suspension.

When I said part of the game, I did not refer to it being acceptable, ordinary, or tolerable at the minor level. I did mean that it is prevalent enough that someone playing competitive hockey through age 17 in NA is likely to witness, participate in, etc. a hockey fight, and that it is common knowledge to players at this level that fighting can occur. If consent of both players is needed for a fighting penalty to be assessed, than this should fall under a match penalty situation.



#45 Johnz96

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:41 PM

When I said part of the game, I did not refer to it being acceptable, ordinary, or tolerable at the minor level. I did mean that it is prevalent enough that someone playing competitive hockey through age 17 in NA is likely to witness, participate in, etc. a hockey fight, and that it is common knowledge to players at this level that fighting can occur. If consent of both players is needed for a fighting penalty to be assessed, than this should fall under a match penalty situation.

That wasn't a fight. It takes at least 2 combatants to qualify as one.



#46 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:58 PM

You play with fire you are going to get burnt. He knew exactly what he was doing and he paid the price. The league will deal with his aggressor and that should be that in my opinion.

 

The price for snowing a goalie is a 2 minute unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

 

The price for a blind side cross check to someone's head followed by a flurry of punches to his already concussed head is a criminal assault charge.

 

As you said he played with fire, now he's getting burnt. He also knew exactly what he was doing and now he's paying the price.



#47 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:37 PM

That wasn't a fight. It takes at least 2 combatants to qualify as one.

From what I am seeing in the Hockey Canada rulebook (is this league subject to this rulebook?) there is a section under fighting for when one player does not retaliate. Therefore, according to the rules Hockey Canada, a fight could be possible with only one combatant. The only mention of a match penalty in the rulebook is if a player uses any hand material (rings, tape, etc) to gain an advantage, or cause injury, during a fight.



#48 Wing-in-avs-town

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

The main point in all of this to me, is that people are categorizing this as a "hockey" fight. This in no way what-so-ever was a fight. The kid gets cross checked (which he should of been ready for, because he had to know the goalies team mates would step in) and as he's defenseless, then gets pummeled repeatedly. If this would of happened ANYWHERE else (at school, the mall, or any other sport) The kid faces charges, that's a no-brainer. But seriously, because it occurred in a hockey game, that's OK ????

 

I've played & coached hockey for over 30 years, and I do see fighting as a part of hockey. But this definitely crosses the line. The more we turn our backs on incidents like this, the more of a problem we are creating. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and if this kid is truly unremorseful, bragging & tweeting about it all proud, that proves my point even more.

 

Lastly, to say the kid "had it coming to him" because he sprayed the goalie, is absolutely absurd. Kids will do stupid things, and spraying the goalie was definitely stupid, but in no way does THAT warrant getting the crap beaten out of you.


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#49 amato

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

Anyone else a little surprised that this story came out of Canada?

Anyway, my opinion: yes it was a terrible play.. by all means, suspend the kid from your league as long as you see fit. But court is a little much..

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#50 beachwing

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:03 PM

Hey everyone. Long time reader, first time poster. I am from Brantford Ontario, and would agree that we Canadians do go to America with the "we are the s***" attitude in hockey much like MOST (not all) Americans do with any other sport tht they whoop our red and white behinds in. However that's not why I posted. I actually personally know number 13 (the accused). His names Ryan and to be honest, he's a real dumba**. I worked with him at McDonald's and its quite pathetic how someone who is literally the biggest chicken s*** (ryan is a huge *****) can get so tough when he gets another players bucket off first. Oh and another thing, I don't hate Ryan. He's just a goof sometimes but outside of hockey he's harmless. And another thing, I follow him on twitter and he was literally bragging about how he made national news for beating this kid. Tweets: @_Ryan_MacDonald: Well i made the front page .....#Awhf***. @_Ryan_MacDonald: Everyone watch coaches corner tonight i might be on it #HAHAHA #hockeyfight #5monthslater. @_Ryan_MacDonald: Im in the news , im kind of a big deal #LOL #5monthslater. You guys can see my point. Do I believe he should be charged. Ya cause he's an idiot and it will teach him something however normally no I believe criminal charges should be left out of the game. He didn't steal the kids wallet after, the other kid AND his parents knew this was a risk the first day they put him in hockey. One word for the Woodstock kid, turtle.


His best tweet was

"@_Ryan_MacDonald: Your world eh woodstock police , hurry up i wanna go to the gym"

#51 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:57 PM

The main point in all of this to me, is that people are categorizing this as a "hockey" fight. This in no way what-so-ever was a fight. The kid gets cross checked (which he should of been ready for, because he had to know the goalies team mates would step in) and as he's defenseless, then gets pummeled repeatedly. If this would of happened ANYWHERE else (at school, the mall, or any other sport) The kid faces charges, that's a no-brainer. But seriously, because it occurred in a hockey game, that's OK ????

 

I've played & coached hockey for over 30 years, and I do see fighting as a part of hockey. But this definitely crosses the line. The more we turn our backs on incidents like this, the more of a problem we are creating. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and if this kid is truly unremorseful, bragging & tweeting about it all proud, that proves my point even more.

 

Lastly, to say the kid "had it coming to him" because he sprayed the goalie, is absolutely absurd. Kids will do stupid things, and spraying the goalie was definitely stupid, but in no way does THAT warrant getting the crap beaten out of you.

I agree that what happened wasn't a hockey fight. However, it appears the league did not choose any discipline outside of the normal penalties for fighting in this case. Therefore, it does seem that Hockey Canada and/or the local league did feel it was a hockey fight. IMO if you want to discourage these activities, the mentality that this isn't acceptable needs to be applied by the governing bodies for the sport through the rules.

 

My statements above are only to show that this incident was ruled, seemingly by the book, by the league to be a hockey fight. Because of the rules and league ruling, it will be interesting to see if the court feels what occurred was outside of the normal hockey environment.



#52 Dino22

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:27 PM

I can't speak to the legalities of this b/c there's just too many moving parts to even begin to think one has the "correct" answer.

 

As for spraying the goalie.  I played defense.  I got into it with many a guy for less than spraying my goaltender.  If someone disrespects your goalie there are infinite ways to get their attention.  Give the guy a hard shove, give him a pop, get in his face.  Either get in the guy's mug and offer him a chance or get your good shot in and put him to the ice.  And if you go with the latter option, it's done if the guy doesn't get back up.  You don't rip his helmet off and drop 8-10 bombs on him.  Not for spraying your goalie.  I think it goes without saying that if you do spray somebody you should at least be conscious of the guys around you and protect yourself.  He did one horrible job protecting himself that's for sure.  But he didn't deserve the beating he got.  



#53 Crymson

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

I never said or implied it was equivalent! I was using that fight as an example of how people are being hypocrites on here. Both where reckless and crossed the line. But since Draper was injured it was accepted that after Mac sucker punched him, dazed him, fell on the ice and kept raining blows and some knees to the face. No One is calling for McCarty to serve jail time, knees to the face aren't part of the game. Please tell me other than a broken nose & concussion the damage that was done to young man? O btw he's 17 almost an adult.

 

Spraying a goalie is neither reckless nor line-crossing. Checking someone from behind into the dasher is both. There is absolutely no equivalence here.



#54 Mitchmac33

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

The main point in all of this to me, is that people are categorizing this as a "hockey" fight. This in no way what-so-ever was a fight. The kid gets cross checked (which he should of been ready for, because he had to know the goalies team mates would step in) and as he's defenseless, then gets pummeled repeatedly. If this would of happened ANYWHERE else (at school, the mall, or any other sport) The kid faces charges, that's a no-brainer. But seriously, because it occurred in a hockey game, that's OK ????

 

I've played & coached hockey for over 30 years, and I do see fighting as a part of hockey. But this definitely crosses the line. The more we turn our backs on incidents like this, the more of a problem we are creating. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and if this kid is truly unremorseful, bragging & tweeting about it all proud, that proves my point even more.

 

Lastly, to say the kid "had it coming to him" because he sprayed the goalie, is absolutely absurd. Kids will do stupid things, and spraying the goalie was definitely stupid, but in no way does THAT warrant getting the crap beaten out of you.

 

No one is turning their back on this, the kid was disciplined, in a manor deemed just by his league.  As you may have read, I don't believe that pressing charges is the right approach here.  Maybe a little stricter punishment is needed here, I could agree with that, but no to the courts.

 

And kids will do stupid things, like fight someone who just sprayed their goalie.

 

 

Spraying a goalie is neither reckless nor line-crossing. Checking someone from behind into the dasher is both. There is absolutely no equivalence here.

No one got cross checked into a dasher, let's keep the facts straight here.



#55 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:27 PM

 

No one is turning their back on this, the kid was disciplined, in a manor deemed just by his league.  As you may have read, I don't believe that pressing charges is the right approach here.  Maybe a little stricter punishment is needed here, I could agree with that, but no to the courts.

 

And kids will do stupid things, like fight someone who just sprayed their goalie.

 

No one got cross checked into a dasher, let's keep the facts straight here.

 

This wasn't a fight, it was an assault, hence the charge. I don't know why people think that because it happened in a hockey game it should be immune to being reviewed by the legal system. I think the threshold for the courts being involved should be higher in professional leagues, but even at the NHL level you aren't immune to all of societies rules because you're playing a game. In minor hockey you should absolutely be subject to legal punishments for infractions such as this one.

 

And Crymson's response was to someone who compared spraying the goalie with what Claude Lemeiux did to Draper.



#56 Mitchmac33

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:32 PM

 

This wasn't a fight, it was an assault, hence the charge. I don't know why people think that because it happened in a hockey game it should be immune to being reviewed by the legal system. I think the threshold for the courts being involved should be higher in professional leagues, but even at the NHL level you aren't immune to all of societies rules because you're playing a game. In minor hockey you should absolutely be subject to legal punishments for infractions such as this one.

 

And Crymson's response was to someone who compared spraying the goalie with what Claude Lemeiux did to Draper.

Ahh, missed that.

 

But honestly, if this happens unprovoked I'd be more lenient to thinking the law should get involved, but it wasn't unprovoked.  When you are playing in a game that's out of hand on the score board, people have already been tossed for fights or trying to fight, you don't go spray the goalie, that's asking for trouble, and trouble found him.  Also, there's no way to tell if the cross check concussed him, so we can't automatically assume he was already concussed once the punches came in.



#57 Wing-in-avs-town

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

Ahh, missed that.

 

But honestly, if this happens unprovoked I'd be more lenient to thinking the law should get involved, but it wasn't unprovoked.  When you are playing in a game that's out of hand on the score board, people have already been tossed for fights or trying to fight, you don't go spray the goalie, that's asking for trouble, and trouble found him.  Also, there's no way to tell if the cross check concussed him, so we can't automatically assume he was already concussed once the punches came in.

No, but he made no effort to defend himself what-so-ever


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#58 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:44 PM

Ahh, missed that.

 

But honestly, if this happens unprovoked I'd be more lenient to thinking the law should get involved, but it wasn't unprovoked.  When you are playing in a game that's out of hand on the score board, people have already been tossed for fights or trying to fight, you don't go spray the goalie, that's asking for trouble, and trouble found him.  Also, there's no way to tell if the cross check concussed him, so we can't automatically assume he was already concussed once the punches came in.

 

If you think the punishment was warranted for spraying a goalie with snow, why then do you have a problem with the guy who doled out the revenge facing his own punishment? 

 

If he just left it at the crosscheck he might have gotten away with nothing more than a 2 minute penalty, if he challenged him to a fight without blindsiding him first he'd face only a 2 game suspension. He chose to take his revenge well outside what was considered acceptable by the court in Ontario and as a result got charged.

 

If there is anything to be outraged about in all of this its that the other guy got a 2 game suspension for getting brutally beaten after taking a crosscheck to the face.



#59 Mitchmac33

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:58 PM

 

If you think the punishment was warranted for spraying a goalie with snow, why then do you have a problem with the guy who doled out the revenge facing his own punishment? 

 

If he just left it at the crosscheck he might have gotten away with nothing more than a 2 minute penalty, if he challenged him to a fight without blindsiding him first he'd face only a 2 game suspension. He chose to take his revenge well outside what was considered acceptable by the court in Ontario and as a result got charged.

 

If there is anything to be outraged about in all of this its that the other guy got a 2 game suspension for getting brutally beaten after taking a crosscheck to the face.

 

I don't have a problem with the kid facing his own punishment.  I just don't think it warrants criminal charges.

 

Obviously we are not going to come to an agreement on it, so there's no point going round and round with it. As a wise man named Ron once said, "agree to disagree."



#60 FlashyG

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:23 AM

 

I don't have a problem with the kid facing his own punishment.  I just don't think it warrants criminal charges.

 

Obviously we are not going to come to an agreement on it, so there's no point going round and round with it. As a wise man named Ron once said, "agree to disagree."

 

I can agree to disagree but I would like to leave you with one question.

 

If that doesn't warrant a criminal charge, how far would a player have to go before you'd feel criminal charges would be warranted?







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