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Hindsight Drafting...


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Poll: Hindsight Drafting?

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Which draft year would you change?

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#1 krsmith17

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:14 PM

Everyone always talks about the mistakes that Holland has made over the years, so if you were able to go back and completely change just one of his draft years which year would it be? I made changes to each draft over the past 15 years, but the last few years were difficult to assess due to most players not playing in the NHL yet. There are going to be some discrepancies between some of the players that I selected in replace of the players that were actually selected but just base your decision on the players listed...

 

1998

 

25 - Jiri Fischer - Scott Gomez
55 - Ryan Barnes - Brad Richards
56 - Tomek Valtonen - Erik Cole
84 - Jake McCracken - Shawn Horcoff
111 - Brent Hobday - Jaroslav Spacek
142 - Carl Steen - Mikael Samuelsson
151 - Adam DeLeeuw - Andrei Markov
171 - Pavel Datsyuk - Pavel Datsyuk
198 - Jeremy Goetzinger - Michael Ryder
226 - David Petrasek - Toby Petersen
256 - Petja Pietilainen - Petja Pietilainen

 

1999

 

120 - Jari Tolsa - Ryan Miller
149 - Andrei Maximenko - Michael Leighton
181 - Kent McDonell - Martin Erat
210 - Henrik Zetterberg - Henrik Zetterberg
238 - Anton Borodkin - Douglas Murray
266 - Ken Davis - Konstantin Gorovikov

 

2000

 

29 - Niklas Kronwall - Niklas Kronwall
38 - Tomas Kopecky - Jarret Stoll
102 - Stefan Liv - Lubomir Visnovsky
127 - Dmitri Semenov - Travis Moen
128 - Alexander Seluyanov - John-Michael Liles
130 - Aaron Van Leusen - Henrik Lundqvist
187 - Par Backer - Matthew Lombardi
196 - Paul Ballantyne - Paul Gaustad
228 - Jimmie Svensson - Lubmir Sekeras
251 - Todd Jackson - Darryl Bootland
260 - Evgeni Bumagin - Micki Dupont

 

2001

 

62 - Igor Grigorenko - Patrick Sharp
121 - Drew MacIntyre - Kevin Bieksa
129 - Miroslav Blatak - Jussi Jokinen
157 - Andreas Jamtin - Ryane Clowe
195 - Nick Pannoni - Johnny Oduya
258 - Dmitry Bykov - P.A. Parenteau
288 - Francois Senez - Henrik Bergfors

 

2002

 

58 - Jiri Hudler - Jiri Hudler
63 - Tomas Fleischmann - Dennis Wideman
95 - Valtteri Filppula - Valtteri Filppula
131 - Johan Berggren - James Wisniewski
166 - Logan Koopmans - Ian White
197 - Jimmy Cuddihy - Maxime Talbot
229 - Derek Meech - Derek Meech
260 - Pierre-Olivier Beaulieu - Adam Burish
262 - Christian Soderstrom - Staffan Kronwall
291 - Jonathan Ericsson - Jonathan Ericsson

 

2003

 

64 - Jimmy Howard - Jimmy Howard
132 - Kyle Quincey - Kyle Quincey
164 - Ryan Oulahen - Joe Pavelski
170 - Andreas Sundin - Tobias Enstrom
194 - Stefan Blom - Kyle Brodziak
226 - Tomas Kollar - Dustin Byfuglien
258 - Vladimir Kutny - Matt Moulson
289 - Mikael Johansson - Brian Elliott

 

2004

 

97 - Johan Franzen - Johan Franzen
128 - Evan McGrath - Mikhail Grabovski
151 - Sergei Kolosov - Penna Rinne
162 - Tyler Haskins - Patrick Kaleta
192 - Anton Axelsson - Troy Brouwer
226 - Steve Covington - Chris Campoli
257 - Gennady Stolyarov - Mark Streit
290 - Nils Backstrom - Nils Backstrom

 

2005

 

19 - Jakub Kindl - James Neal
42 - Justin Abdelkader - Kristopher Letang
80 - Christofer Lofberg - Jared Boll
103 - Mattias Ritola - Keith Yandle
132 - Darren Helm - Darren Helm
137 - Johan Ryno - Sergei Kostitsyn
151 - Jeff May - Patric Hornqvist
175 - Juho Mielonen - Matt D'Agostini
214 - Bretton Stamler - Anton Stralman

 

2006

 

41 - Cory Emmerton - Nikolai Kulemin
47 - Shawn Matthias - Milan Lucic
62 - Dick Axelsson - Brad Marchand
92 - Daniel Larsson - Viktor Stalberg
182 - Jan Mursak - Jan Mursak
191 - Nick Oslund - Erik Condra
212 - Logan Pyett - Logan Pyett

 

2007

 

27 - Brendan Smith - P.K. Subban
88 - Joakim Andersson - Jamie Benn
148 - Randy Cameron - Carl Hagelin
178 - Zack Torquato - Carl Gunnarsson
208 - Bryan Rufenach - Drew MacKenzie

 

2008

 

30 - Thomas McCollum - Justin Schultz
91 - Max Nicastro - Braden Holtby
121 - Gustav Nyquist - Gustav Nyquist
151 - Julien Cayer - Teemu Hartikainen
181 - Stephen Johnston - Jason Demers
211 - Jesper Samuelsson - Jesper Samuelsson

 

2009

 

32 - Landon Ferraro - Ryan O'Reilly
60 - Tomas Tatar - Tomas Tatar
75 - Andrej Nestrasil - Cody Eakin
90 - Gleason Fournier - Craig Smith
150 - Nick Jensen - Nick Jensen
180 - Mitchell Callahan - Mitchell Callahan
210 - Adam Almqvist - Adam Almqvist

 

2010

 

21 - Riley Sheahan - Justin Faulk
51 - Calle Jarnkrok - Calle Jarnkrok
81 - Louis-Marc Aubry - Louis-Marc Aubry
111 - Teemu Pulkkinen - Teemu Pulkkinen
141 - Petr Mrazek - Petr Mrazek
171 - Brooks Macek - Mark Stone
201 - Ben Marshall - Ben Marshall

 

2011

 

35 - Tomas Jurco - Tomas Jurco
48 - Xavier Ouellet - Xavier Ouellet
55 - Ryan Sproul - Ryan Sproul
85 - Alan Quine - Andrew Shaw
115 - Marek Tvrdon - Marek Tvrdon
145 - Philippe Hudon - Philippe Hudon
146 - Mattias Backman - Mattias Backman
175 - Richard Nedomlel - Richard Nedomlel
205 - Alexei Marchenko - Alexei Marchenko

 

2012

 

49 - Martin Frk - Martin Frk
80 - Jake Paterson - Jake Paterson
110 - Andreas Athanasiou - Andreas Athanasiou
140 - Michael McKee - Michael McKee
170 - James De Haas - James De Haas
200 - Rasmus Bodin - Rasmus Bodin



#2 Jedi

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:53 PM

2001 is a pretty glaring example.  Only Dmitri Bykov ever saw any games with Detroit, and we all know how his NHL career turned out...

 

I know that 1993 was before Kenny was GM of the team, but there's another missed gem in the draft that I always like to point out...

 

Attached File  Screen shot 2013-06-26 at 3.44.59 PM.png   47.61KB   54 downloads

 

 


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#3 55fan

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:37 PM

Poor Dick Axelsson. 

 

I just wonder whether Grigorenko would have been better than Sharp had everything gone well for him.  He was a hot commodity and pretty well hyped, but that doesn't always translate to success.



#4 dirtydangles

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

2001 was a huge miss. No brainer. Even though there were misses on better players in other years - overall 2001 was poor.


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#5 rick zombo

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

2001 may be looked back upon with more fondness had Grigorenko not nearly died in a car crash.

I remember six months after the draft when the WJCs were in Halifax and he dominated vs Canada en route to gold. Everyone was saying what a steal he was at 62 earlier that year.

Edited by rick zombo, 26 June 2013 - 05:40 PM.

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#6 MotorCityMadness

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

2001 is a pretty glaring example.  Only Dmitri Bykov ever saw any games with Detroit, and we all know how his NHL career turned out...

 

I know that 1993 was before Kenny was GM of the team, but there's another missed gem in the draft that I always like to point out...

 

attachicon.gifScreen shot 2013-06-26 at 3.44.59 PM.png

 

 

2001 certainly was a failure, but had Grigorenko not gotten in a fatal car accident the outcome may have been much better 


Edited by MotorCityMadness, 26 June 2013 - 06:03 PM.

HEY HEY HOCKEYTOWN!

#7 SaCkaveli20

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:05 PM

I picked 2000.

130 - Aaron Van Leusen - Henrik Lundqvist

 Is the worst mistake on that list.



#8 Serratoni

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

What strikes me about most of these drafts is the high rate of failure. The NHL draft is really a crapshoot. So many players don't pan out. Others taken quite late (Dats, Z, and Big E) turn out to be NHL regulars or even crazy awesome.



#9 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

2001 is a pretty glaring example.  Only Dmitri Bykov ever saw any games with Detroit, and we all know how his NHL career turned out...

 

I know that 1993 was before Kenny was GM of the team, but there's another missed gem in the draft that I always like to point out...

 

attachicon.gifScreen shot 2013-06-26 at 3.44.59 PM.png

 

 

 

Hey, Bykov carried Lidstrom to his 3rd straight Norris.   ;)


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#10 thegerkin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

What strikes me about most of these drafts is the high rate of failure. The NHL draft is really a crapshoot. So many players don't pan out. Others taken quite late (Dats, Z, and Big E) turn out to be NHL regulars or even crazy awesome.

 

Paging Rick DiPietro :D



#11 wingsfan4795

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

I said 2001, but man that 2003 draft was a gold mine

Good rule of thumb is always take an octopus everywhere. Better to have one and not need it than find yourself thinking, "Damn, I wish I had that octopus".

 

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#12 turbowhistle86

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

2005 was a fairly nasty train wreck too....

#13 The Axe

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:44 PM

Milan Lucic is the guy we are missing badly. Jamie Benn would be nice, too.

#14 unsaddleddonald

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:15 PM

Ugh, delete this thread.

 

It makes me sad...



#15 FlashyG

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:27 AM

Ugh, delete this thread.

 

It makes me sad...

 

No matter which team in the league you're a fan of this kind of thread will always seem depressing. 



#16 _SP_

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:53 AM

Well, if you're playing hindsight, then those drafts where the Red Wings picked guys that ended up being significant steals (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.), should be changed to reflect that, too.  If the team had better scouts or a crystal ball, then those guys like Erik Cole and Datsyuk would have both been drafted in the first, regardless of where they were still available in real life.  

Otherwise, there's really nothing to be depressed about... stuff happens.


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#17 Nev

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:43 AM

The fact remains that Holland is far more succesful in the draft than every other GM in the league, especially in the mid-rounds.

 

Some interesting analysis  http://www.coppernbl...s-draft-success

 

 

Holland torched the league overall. He was better than the league average in each section, including 7x better in the 51-100 slots and 2x or more better than the league average in the 101-200 and 201+ slots. On the far right is the expected value of top NHL players based on league average and Detroit's total picks by slot grouping. If the Wings would've been league average through the 97-05 years, they would have drafted 4 top NHL players with their 78 draft picks. Ken Holland drafted 12. He was three times better than the league and he wasn't relying on the lottery to build the Wings system. His haul during this period included: Jiri Fischer, Niklas Kronwall, Jiri Hudler, Tomas Fleischmann, Jimmy Howard, Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen, Kyle Quincey, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, and Jonathan Ericsson.

 


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#18 AtomicPunk

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

Let's go way back and fix the draft where Primeau was taken #3 overall instead of Jagr because the Wings had so much trouble with Petr Klima that "I'm not drafting any more Czech guys".


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#19 stillwater

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

If they don't draft Primeau, they may not have been able to trade for Shanahan ... and they fall short again in '97.

 

To me, Shanahan was the last piece of the SC puzzle.



#20 AtomicPunk

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:21 PM

If they draft Jagr, they wouldnt have needed to trade for Shanahan. :)


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