krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 Everyone always talks about the mistakes that Holland has made over the years, so if you were able to go back and completely change just one of his draft years which year would it be? I made changes to each draft over the past 15 years, but the last few years were difficult to assess due to most players not playing in the NHL yet. There are going to be some discrepancies between some of the players that I selected in replace of the players that were actually selected but just base your decision on the players listed... 1998 25 - Jiri Fischer - Scott Gomez55 - Ryan Barnes - Brad Richards56 - Tomek Valtonen - Erik Cole84 - Jake McCracken - Shawn Horcoff111 - Brent Hobday - Jaroslav Spacek142 - Carl Steen - Mikael Samuelsson151 - Adam DeLeeuw - Andrei Markov171 - Pavel Datsyuk - Pavel Datsyuk198 - Jeremy Goetzinger - Michael Ryder226 - David Petrasek - Toby Petersen256 - Petja Pietilainen - Petja Pietilainen 1999 120 - Jari Tolsa - Ryan Miller149 - Andrei Maximenko - Michael Leighton181 - Kent McDonell - Martin Erat210 - Henrik Zetterberg - Henrik Zetterberg238 - Anton Borodkin - Douglas Murray266 - Ken Davis - Konstantin Gorovikov 2000 29 - Niklas Kronwall - Niklas Kronwall38 - Tomas Kopecky - Jarret Stoll102 - Stefan Liv - Lubomir Visnovsky127 - Dmitri Semenov - Travis Moen128 - Alexander Seluyanov - John-Michael Liles130 - Aaron Van Leusen - Henrik Lundqvist187 - Par Backer - Matthew Lombardi196 - Paul Ballantyne - Paul Gaustad228 - Jimmie Svensson - Lubmir Sekeras251 - Todd Jackson - Darryl Bootland260 - Evgeni Bumagin - Micki Dupont 2001 62 - Igor Grigorenko - Patrick Sharp121 - Drew MacIntyre - Kevin Bieksa129 - Miroslav Blatak - Jussi Jokinen157 - Andreas Jamtin - Ryane Clowe195 - Nick Pannoni - Johnny Oduya258 - Dmitry Bykov - P.A. Parenteau288 - Francois Senez - Henrik Bergfors 2002 58 - Jiri Hudler - Jiri Hudler63 - Tomas Fleischmann - Dennis Wideman95 - Valtteri Filppula - Valtteri Filppula131 - Johan Berggren - James Wisniewski166 - Logan Koopmans - Ian White197 - Jimmy Cuddihy - Maxime Talbot229 - Derek Meech - Derek Meech260 - Pierre-Olivier Beaulieu - Adam Burish262 - Christian Soderstrom - Staffan Kronwall291 - Jonathan Ericsson - Jonathan Ericsson 2003 64 - Jimmy Howard - Jimmy Howard132 - Kyle Quincey - Kyle Quincey164 - Ryan Oulahen - Joe Pavelski170 - Andreas Sundin - Tobias Enstrom194 - Stefan Blom - Kyle Brodziak226 - Tomas Kollar - Dustin Byfuglien258 - Vladimir Kutny - Matt Moulson289 - Mikael Johansson - Brian Elliott 2004 97 - Johan Franzen - Johan Franzen128 - Evan McGrath - Mikhail Grabovski151 - Sergei Kolosov - Penna Rinne162 - Tyler Haskins - Patrick Kaleta192 - Anton Axelsson - Troy Brouwer226 - Steve Covington - Chris Campoli257 - Gennady Stolyarov - Mark Streit290 - Nils Backstrom - Nils Backstrom 2005 19 - Jakub Kindl - James Neal42 - Justin Abdelkader - Kristopher Letang80 - Christofer Lofberg - Jared Boll103 - Mattias Ritola - Keith Yandle132 - Darren Helm - Darren Helm137 - Johan Ryno - Sergei Kostitsyn151 - Jeff May - Patric Hornqvist175 - Juho Mielonen - Matt D'Agostini214 - Bretton Stamler - Anton Stralman 2006 41 - Cory Emmerton - Nikolai Kulemin47 - Shawn Matthias - Milan Lucic62 - Dick Axelsson - Brad Marchand92 - Daniel Larsson - Viktor Stalberg182 - Jan Mursak - Jan Mursak191 - Nick Oslund - Erik Condra212 - Logan Pyett - Logan Pyett 2007 27 - Brendan Smith - P.K. Subban88 - Joakim Andersson - Jamie Benn148 - Randy Cameron - Carl Hagelin178 - Zack Torquato - Carl Gunnarsson208 - Bryan Rufenach - Drew MacKenzie 2008 30 - Thomas McCollum - Justin Schultz91 - Max Nicastro - Braden Holtby121 - Gustav Nyquist - Gustav Nyquist151 - Julien Cayer - Teemu Hartikainen181 - Stephen Johnston - Jason Demers211 - Jesper Samuelsson - Jesper Samuelsson 2009 32 - Landon Ferraro - Ryan O'Reilly60 - Tomas Tatar - Tomas Tatar75 - Andrej Nestrasil - Cody Eakin90 - Gleason Fournier - Craig Smith150 - Nick Jensen - Nick Jensen180 - Mitchell Callahan - Mitchell Callahan210 - Adam Almqvist - Adam Almqvist 2010 21 - Riley Sheahan - Justin Faulk51 - Calle Jarnkrok - Calle Jarnkrok81 - Louis-Marc Aubry - Louis-Marc Aubry111 - Teemu Pulkkinen - Teemu Pulkkinen141 - Petr Mrazek - Petr Mrazek171 - Brooks Macek - Mark Stone201 - Ben Marshall - Ben Marshall 2011 35 - Tomas Jurco - Tomas Jurco48 - Xavier Ouellet - Xavier Ouellet55 - Ryan Sproul - Ryan Sproul85 - Alan Quine - Andrew Shaw115 - Marek Tvrdon - Marek Tvrdon145 - Philippe Hudon - Philippe Hudon146 - Mattias Backman - Mattias Backman175 - Richard Nedomlel - Richard Nedomlel205 - Alexei Marchenko - Alexei Marchenko 2012 49 - Martin Frk - Martin Frk80 - Jake Paterson - Jake Paterson110 - Andreas Athanasiou - Andreas Athanasiou140 - Michael McKee - Michael McKee170 - James De Haas - James De Haas200 - Rasmus Bodin - Rasmus Bodin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 2001 is a pretty glaring example. Only Dmitri Bykov ever saw any games with Detroit, and we all know how his NHL career turned out... I know that 1993 was before Kenny was GM of the team, but there's another missed gem in the draft that I always like to point out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 Poor Dick Axelsson. I just wonder whether Grigorenko would have been better than Sharp had everything gone well for him. He was a hot commodity and pretty well hyped, but that doesn't always translate to success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 2001 was a huge miss. No brainer. Even though there were misses on better players in other years - overall 2001 was poor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) 2001 may be looked back upon with more fondness had Grigorenko not nearly died in a car crash. I remember six months after the draft when the WJCs were in Halifax and he dominated vs Canada en route to gold. Everyone was saying what a steal he was at 62 earlier that year. Edited June 26, 2013 by rick zombo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotorCityMadness 388 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) 2001 is a pretty glaring example. Only Dmitri Bykov ever saw any games with Detroit, and we all know how his NHL career turned out... I know that 1993 was before Kenny was GM of the team, but there's another missed gem in the draft that I always like to point out... Screen shot 2013-06-26 at 3.44.59 PM.png 2001 certainly was a failure, but had Grigorenko not gotten in a fatal car accident the outcome may have been much better Edited June 26, 2013 by MotorCityMadness Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaCkaveli20 275 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 I picked 2000. 130 - Aaron Van Leusen - Henrik Lundqvist Is the worst mistake on that list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serratoni 49 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 What strikes me about most of these drafts is the high rate of failure. The NHL draft is really a crapshoot. So many players don't pan out. Others taken quite late (Dats, Z, and Big E) turn out to be NHL regulars or even crazy awesome. 1 thegerkin reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 2001 is a pretty glaring example. Only Dmitri Bykov ever saw any games with Detroit, and we all know how his NHL career turned out... I know that 1993 was before Kenny was GM of the team, but there's another missed gem in the draft that I always like to point out... Screen shot 2013-06-26 at 3.44.59 PM.png Hey, Bykov carried Lidstrom to his 3rd straight Norris. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegerkin 189 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 What strikes me about most of these drafts is the high rate of failure. The NHL draft is really a crapshoot. So many players don't pan out. Others taken quite late (Dats, Z, and Big E) turn out to be NHL regulars or even crazy awesome. Paging Rick DiPietro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsfan4795 552 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 I said 2001, but man that 2003 draft was a gold mine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbowhistle86 155 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 2005 was a fairly nasty train wreck too.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted June 27, 2013 Milan Lucic is the guy we are missing badly. Jamie Benn would be nice, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unsaddleddonald 357 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 Ugh, delete this thread. It makes me sad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlashyG 1,799 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 Ugh, delete this thread. It makes me sad... No matter which team in the league you're a fan of this kind of thread will always seem depressing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_SP_ 129 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 Well, if you're playing hindsight, then those drafts where the Red Wings picked guys that ended up being significant steals (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.), should be changed to reflect that, too. If the team had better scouts or a crystal ball, then those guys like Erik Cole and Datsyuk would have both been drafted in the first, regardless of where they were still available in real life. Otherwise, there's really nothing to be depressed about... stuff happens. 1 Nev reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nev 1,085 Report post Posted June 27, 2013 The fact remains that Holland is far more succesful in the draft than every other GM in the league, especially in the mid-rounds. Some interesting analysis http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/8/2202287/ken-hollands-draft-success Holland torched the league overall. He was better than the league average in each section, including 7x better in the 51-100 slots and 2x or more better than the league average in the 101-200 and 201+ slots. On the far right is the expected value of top NHL players based on league average and Detroit's total picks by slot grouping. If the Wings would've been league average through the 97-05 years, they would have drafted 4 top NHL players with their 78 draft picks. Ken Holland drafted 12. He was three times better than the league and he wasn't relying on the lottery to build the Wings system. His haul during this period included: Jiri Fischer, Niklas Kronwall, Jiri Hudler, Tomas Fleischmann, Jimmy Howard, Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen, Kyle Quincey, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, and Jonathan Ericsson. 1 thegerkin reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted July 1, 2013 Let's go way back and fix the draft where Primeau was taken #3 overall instead of Jagr because the Wings had so much trouble with Petr Klima that "I'm not drafting any more Czech guys". 1 Nev reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 1, 2013 If they don't draft Primeau, they may not have been able to trade for Shanahan ... and they fall short again in '97. To me, Shanahan was the last piece of the SC puzzle. 2 FireCaptain and F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted July 1, 2013 If they draft Jagr, they wouldnt have needed to trade for Shanahan. 1 Serratoni reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted July 1, 2013 2001 may be looked back upon with more fondness had Grigorenko not nearly died in a car crash. I remember six months after the draft when the WJCs were in Halifax and he dominated vs Canada en route to gold. Everyone was saying what a steal he was at 62 earlier that year. Yeah, Grigorenko absolutely got wrecked by that accident. I had forgotten that he was a 62nd pick - I assumed he was a late 1st rounder because that guy was absolutely expected to be the "next" diamond unearthed by the Wings in the early 2000's. I refuse to vote on the poll, however, because 2008 is really the latest one I feel at all comfortable passing judgment on. For example, Landon Ferraro is 21 years old right now, and actually had a good year for the Griffins. He's also logjammed behind a bunch of other forwards (Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, etc.) who are around his age or even a little older and just broke in with the Wings. Are you ready to say that he is or isn't a "bust"? I'm not! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites